Evidence of....... Evidence suggestive of.....

You might have, but to what extend you'll never find out. Anyway, you called emergency right away. And it was an accident. Don't think too much about what could or might have happened, it didn't.

It must have been rather painful those bruise, though! Ouch they can be very painful!

 

There is a statement from a neighbor who saw that the lights in the butler kitchen were on at around midnight and found and considered it unusual since it was the first time he had noticed that light being on in the Ramsey house. Another neighbor notice that the light was off in the sunroom and thought it to be odd as that light always burned all night. (ST book) At least it indicated that light were on in the house, only on that particular night at strange places. This while light were off were they normally were on. But that doesn’t mean they also used the flashlight to maneuver through the house, I agree. Still I believe it could have caused those injuries, specially since Dr. Spitz was convinced it had to be that or a bat. So were other specialist on the field of pathology.

And wiping of the batteries sound a bit too thorough to me if only used to maneuver through the house, since fingerprints couldn’t have been dated and anyhow they could have easily explained away the use of the flashlight. They could have used it that morning in their search and if I understood it well it was a flashlight often used by aviators. They planned to leave by plane early morning, which could have also explained away the flashlight. So why wipe so methodical?

Okay, sorry about my little trick, (doesn’t mean that I was not really concerned about your injuries as well) but P. Ramsey was checked for bruises and scratches on the back and the fronts of her hands and arms, face and neck. And that happened on the 28th.

 

Agree with you on that one.

 

Okay, for now I'll stick to my flashlight theory and I still believe abuse took place. Not saying it is what happened, but sounds most logic to me.

Elle, can't remember those reports, can you tell me which book? Only found those references to the sunroom light off and butler kitchen light on.

 

Sylvia,

When I said those theories were talked about before, I meant by the posters on the JonBenét forums a few years back. Just the posters, not reports. I usually quote the source when I can, if it's that type of information.

I think this was part of the Ramsey cleanup job, Sylvia, having used it during the night, but I could be wrong (?).

 

No problem Elle, just kind of hoped it was written down somewhere about the strange lights. Kind of thought I might have missed it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

The strange lighting was mentioned in Steve Thomas's book, Sylvia, just as you stated in a previous post. This may have been the flashlight as they moved around.

 

Let's do as Sherlock Holmes suggests and try some imagination. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Patsy did catch John misbehaving with JB. Now, let's walk through this.

Patsy is awakened at around 1:00 A.M. by "nature's call," as it were. John's not there. So, she searches. She admitted publically that she had her suspicions about John. We know that. Let's say that she's not thinking about that at this moment, but that her suspicions have been aroused these past few days. She examines the house until she hears low voices. Slowly, the door of the girl's room opens. It's in darkness, but a faint outline can be seen. And the voices are John and JB. Whether or not he's doing it then doesn't matter. A tired, slightly annoyed, possibly drugged person whose thoughts are turned to the unthinkable is not likely to ask for a written invitation to action. Whether she finds a baseball bat nearby or uses the heavy Maglite, she barges in, screaming, "You b*****d!" or similar epithet and swings. Purely out of instinct, John dodges. WHACK! JB is hit. She'd bolted upright in fear and took the place of the intended target. Completely forgetting John, she shakes JB, calling her name, but nothing. She turns to John, now completely out of control, but by now he's up and trying to restrain her. He manages to disarm Patsy, but she's still fighting him. He slaps her, snapping her out of it. (If his hand left a print or bruise, that might account for her full makeup in the morning. It was necessary.) She collapses, a wreck. Now it's John's turn to fear for his daughter's life. Not a sign of life. A person in shock does not leave many tell-tale vital signs for a person in panic.

Now they're really in a jam. Both have knowledge of wrongdoing on the part of the other. John could, at this point, save himself and turn her in. But he can't. He's already lost one daughter and one wife (his divorce.) Now he's looking at losing his second wife to prison, his youngest son to a foster home with no way of seeing him, and his status as a man. Plus, if he were to do so, he'd have to admit to himself that it was his fault, in a way. Same deal with Patsy. If she were to rat him out and ask for the law to show mercy, she will have lost her only son and will have to admit that she married a monster and did nothing to stop him.

Just imagine it's you. What do you do?

WHAT CAN YOU DO?

The only thing you can do: you turn your ruined marriage into an unholy alliance. From there, it becomes a twisted game. She writes to save her sanity. Someone (I can't remember who) said that the note was the killer's way of undoing the crime in their mind. Given its tone of suppressed anger toward John, that's not a big leap of imagination. He does the physical work.

Do I believe this is what happened? Hard to say. But it is in the imagination that crimes are conceived, and ultimately solved.

 

This is an article re: Patsy missing John and hitting JonBenet by accident:

 

Thanks for posting this information, Little. It is always good to check everything out.

I've always wondered, as to how this information reached Diane Hollis at Access Graphics. Which one of the two Ramseys would have made a phone call announcing that this had taken place? It would hardly be John, if he truly was guilty. Would Patsy denounce her husband to his company to shame him, after she discovers that JonBenét was killed in the process? Then later help him stage a cover-up? Doesn't make any sense to me.

First of all I have problems with John Ramsey being a molester. I thought he went in for adult women, when he had Jodie Roberts as a mistress for two years while married to Lucinda. I hardly think a man who has already experienced a mistress and a few other women, could be fully satisfied sexually, playing around with his 6 year old daughter.

Once again I have trouble putting John Ramsey in this position sexually molesting his six year old daughter, and if so, he must have been mentally defective.

I'm still not convinced. Anyone?

 

Here are some flashlight related stories & some other misc. "stuff":

 

I'm not either. You bring up the same things I have problems with.

Also, one of my sticking points is the logistics of Patsy hitting John.
First, I know from reading some of the interview transcripts that she "has a mouth on her". I can envision her yelling, I can envision her screaming. I can't see her hitting John with a flashlight, even in rage. The reason is appearances. For Patsy, how things look is very important. I can't see her hitting because it would leave bruises, and bruises bring questions that crack the facade of perfect that was her life.

Another sticking point is that no matter how I think about Patsy meaning to hit John, him moving or whatever and her hitting JB, I can't think of an arrangement of the 3 people where that actually works. If she is in position to hit him with great force, I can't think of a position where she would be in position to hit JB with great force if he moved. She'd either be too far away to reach JB or at a bad angle, she'd have to change her position to hit JB or where she hit doesn't match the location of the injury. If John and JB are on the bed and she hits JB's head instead of John's, some of the force would be absorbed by the bed. So, I don't think the result would be that skull fracture.
Those of you that think that's what happened, if you have ideas of the body positions, please share.

 

Sue,

Your mind is working like mine right now. One would need to look at the photo of the bed again. It was the right side of her head that was struck, according to what I have read; therefore looking at these photographs courtesy of http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-pam-removed.htm

you can try and imagine the scene with both Patsy Ramsey and John Ramsey there. The bed she slept in is to the left. although she slept in the other one if hers was wet from time to time, from what I've read.

.

You can always enlarge them at home.

 

There are larger photos of these beds on FFJ somewhere, Sue(?). I remember Justincase posted them. I would have liked to see the whole room enlarged. Once again I find it difficult to think this molestation scene happened; especially when the Ramseys were getting up so early in the morning for an early flight. It just doesn't fit with me at all.

 

No it doesn't as it. It isn't light moving, it is lights are out on a place where they are normally on. And lights are on where they are normally off. There is no movement mentioned.

But it might have been written in the book of Steve Thomas, the hardback version, only up to now I haven't found any reference for moving lights and am using the paperback.

 

Sue and Elle, I have no problem in thinking that J. Ramsey might have molested JB. Why not? It seems to be acceptable for a lot to think P. Ramsey molested JB, so I don’t see any difference there. Do I have certainty, no of course not. Someone will have to start talking in order to get that. Beside previous interest in adult women doesn’t automatically make child molestation impossible. Lots of married men abuse their own children, sometimes it is only a matter of time or the right child (what they call the special one). To me fact remains there are signs of sexual molestation.

She wouldn’t necessarily have to be sitting in order to get hit, maybe they were standing. Maybe JB just moves in between or gets in the centre by movements of others. And, no I wouldn’t put it past P. Ramsey to use force, severe force. Looks may have been everything for her, but that was only on the outside. ST book says the further you got into the house the dirtier it became. Besides who said, she would or did aim at his head? Who knows what someone does in a rage? It is my believe that by pushing the right buttons you can send anyone in to a rage. Everyone has a breaking point.

 

From the point of view of regular "lighting" itself, this is one way when lights are off, but I also see someone walking around a house in the dark with a flashlight as another. Just depends on how you look at it.

I feel sorry for the detectives having to weed through all the evidence to find the true facts.

 

She wouldn’t necessarily have to be sitting in order to get hit, maybe they were standing. Maybe JB just moves in between or gets in the centre by movements of others. And, no I wouldn’t put it past P. Ramsey to use force, severe force. Looks may have been everything for her, but that was only on the outside. ST book says the further you got into the house the dirtier it became. Besides who said, she would or did aim at his head? Who knows what someone does in a rage? It is my believe that by pushing the right buttons you can send anyone in to a rage. Everyone has a breaking point



There'a a lot of truth to what you're saying, Sylvia, and there are other posters who are more knowledgeable than I am when it comes to child molesation. I'm just giving my own opinion. I just feel the timing was off for me, with the family having an early flight in the morning, and all they had been through, but something did happen that night for sure.The confrontation could have taken place right after they arrived home; maybe even over the pineapple. as Delmar England once stated. He could be right as many others may be. I just don't know. I've stayed with my own theory of it being Patsy Ramsey in a rage with JonBenét herself, and not John Ramsey, but I may be wrong. It's jmo.

You're right about the signs of molestation. I have read about them, and do wonder who is responsible for them (?).

 

The time, yeah, it was off. But look at the Peterson murder cases, if the timing was ever off it was there.

I personally believe it is good to have your own theory, that way it can be discussed. Maybe you’re even right. No one really knows what happened exactly the day she died, even the exact date isn’t completely sure.

As for the molesting, someone did indeed and normally it is the father who does those things, however, seeing this ‘family’ nothing would surprise me actually. I have never seen a more shallow family then this one. All was directed by living in such a way to impress the outside world. Those people, to me, are almost like that house, the further you go in the more dirtier it gets….

 

The molestation part, Sylvia is a very delicate subject to talk about, and although I haven't delved deeply enough into this territory, I think most female posters knew when they read that JonBenét's vagina was enlarged to almost twice the size it should have been for a little six year old girl, a red flag was waving. This does not occur from riding a bike, or from climbing poles. This happens from digital penetration, and that was from one of the doctor's reports (?) not Dr. Myers.
You may have this documented, knowing you.

Were your books and documents stolen, Sylvia?