Forensic Evidence 2: Bedwetting

Oh, somewhere after the first coupla' snorts of the ol' pipe, but before I ate the last bag of double-stuf Oreos... I wondered who might respond to that! :floor: :404: :coffeeup:

I'd be scarce if I were in her oxfords...or new balances...or birkenstocks.

 

I think you may be right, Elle. I think if you took a poll and asked people what the defination of "incest" is, the majority would say sex between a parent and child. But do they know it is also sex between siblings? And would the Ramseys have known that? By all accounts the Ramseys were very straight-laced people who probably didn't have a vast knowledge of sexual terms.

 

The Ramseys--Straitlaced?

I don't think so. Patsy with an exotic dancer (male) at her birthday party?
John with his tiny girlfriend dressed up in a tux? His many affairs?

Their G-Rated family act was all a charade.

 

They listed her as a "writer" recently in some article or other, or maybe it was the Tracey croc, can't remember and don't care enough to google it.

I remember when Patsy died Arndt have an interview with some reporter that was on par with "everything went black and I saw thousands of stars." She was insinuating she talked to Patsy before Patsy died, wasn't she? And she implied that Patsy "said things" but not really, something like that. Which, OF COURSE, will be in Arndt's BOOK, publisher and date to be announced. :floor:

I think Arndt's inexperience with such complex violence and the unforgiveable set-up that morning, with her being left ALONE at the CRIME SCENE with 9 or 10 civilians while awaiting a call from TERRORIST KIDNAPPERS, sent her over the edge. She was just a detective trained in "victim" compassion in a small University town of privilege and money.

It's not talked about that much, but Arndt's strange behavior in her position within the BPD after the murder, claiming to have "amnesia" when asked for reports on her undocumented meetings with Patsy, hiding her police notes on the case, etc., would have been another "blessing" for the defense, had there been a trial.

 

Don't forget the DRAG QUEEN performer.... I thought that was a bit off for these deeply religious Christians. I mean, I love drag queens myself, as they're some of the funniest people on earth, but not something I expect to see at birthday parties of Republican right-wingers.

 

Oh, I don't know. If there's anything West Virginia is known for after coal mining, it's incest. They even had a big media flap in the last year or so when a well-known clothing label started selling a t-shirt that said something derogatory like that. Hm. Let me look it up, as I forget now exactly what was said, but the governor got in on the high dugeon about it.

OK, this is from a forum thread on West Virginia I googled:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=West+Virginia

 

Here is a website with discussion of incest, and the original thread topic writer says she heard a boy make a joke about incest: "In West Virginia, incest is best." This is why this site turned up on my google search of the state and incest.

But the reason I'm writing this post is because of a poster on this thread who writes about her brother committing incest on her from the time she was 8 and he was 13, until she was 13 and he was 18. It's a heart-rending tale, and this is the hallmark of how families who protect incestors think:

http://www.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/child_abuse_and_recovery/119636/latest/7

And that's the typical way in which families respond to incest: they protect the incestor and punish the victim, often casting them out or threatening to do so if they "tell."

I'd like to smack all of them dead in the face. Right before I kicked their arses into next year.

 

OK, found the t-shirt slogan and a site where some W. Virginian's speak on it:

"It's all relative in West Virginia." Abercrombie & Fitch

http://www.blogdenovo.org/archives/000096.html

 

Well, I just did that experiment, and with my extra-large American Heritage Dictionary, the word "incest" is right at the bottom left-hand side of a 2 page spread, so it only takes a little triangle of the page to point to it. But no one would dog-ear a page from the bottom unless it was intentional.

 

About incest...

Molestation can happen between kids of similar ages, and calling it "playing doctor" may be a way to protect the molestor, even without true knowledge of what happened. IOW, young children can have an intent to molest another child, not merely sharing mutual curiosity about each other's private parts, and this "play" can awaken more and deeper urges that the child then wants to act upon.

To my definition, incest is any repeated sexual act between blood-related people, no matter what the ages of the people involved (of course that leaves out marriage, since the partners are not blood-related). Once, between kids of similar ages, perhaps that's not intentional. Twice, then we have a problem. Needs at least supervision from then on.

Much incest is hidden behind closed doors, and yes, the victim can be ostracized and the perpetrator protected.

 

OK, Moab, I did the experiment with an Unabridged Webster's, 1994 copyright. It's a tabletop edition, huge, so that's similar at least.

"Incest" is on the right side page, in the right column, of the three columns, about 3.75 inches from the very top of the page. I can dog-ear at the top to point to the direct word "incest" if I mean for it to do so, very easily with a fold that is a bit more than 2 inches from fold to the tip of the page corner. If it was simply a marker to keep that page, it could, of course, be for any word on either page and could be coincidence, as we said. But if it literally was pointing dead on the word "incest" like mine is, that looks a bit staged.

Why would one dog-ear a dictionary page? It's not like the words are going to be hard to find again...? Who would do that?

Patsy, Burke, Arndt...? What about the maid, Linda HP?

I don't know, but it would seem NOT coincidence when you think of dog-earing a dictionary page.

I don't know, it doesn't make much sense. But then, neither does anything else in this case.

 

The idea that the dog-eared page was a clue intentionally left by someone as a way of exposing the truth, or supposed truth, that incest was occurring in the Ramsey family seems farfetched to me - even more farfetched than all of those who-in-reality-would-actually-figure-them-out clues in The DaVinci Code.

The dog-ear may mean nothing. It may have been simply marking a page and not the word "incest" specifically. Or maybe for some reason John and/or Patsy thought Burke needed to be told what incest was, and so one of them looked up the word in the dictionary, bent the page corner, and told him to read where the "ear" was pointing. Or maybe John and Patsy thought the dictionary would give them legal-type information about incest, information they found themselves desperately in need of after JonBenet died.

It's unlikely we'll ever know the significance of the dog-eared page, if it's indeed significant, nor, in my opinion, will we know how long before JonBenet died that the page was bent.

This case really pmo.

 

I realize I am a good bit older than many of you here, Blue, and times have changed, but during my school years I never heard the word "incest" mentioned, and when it came to kids being curious about the opposite sex, it was always called "playing at doctor." Today's terms are way advanced for children, than they were for me.

It's hard to relate the word sex to young ones aged 10 - 12. I would need to research this myself if I needed this information, and it's possible the Ramseys were desperately searching for answers on this very subject (?).

 

The dog eared page marking the word "Incest" intentionally also seems too far-fetched to me too, Tril. I can accept searching for legal information a lot easier. It's possible the dictionary wasn't closed due to the Ramseys being in a panic (?).

 

before you all go dismissing things as far fetched.....what about this case ISNT ????
If you wrote this as fiction you'd be canned as something akin to a 3rd rate English professor !!

 

Did Patsy order the dancer for her own party, or was it a prank-gift from a friend? I also don't think a man having affairs is any indication of his sexual prowess--especially when it comes to incest.

Remember, Patsy talked to LHP about their sex life and it didn't sound like she was a wild tumble in the sack.

 

I'm not writing it off, Kanga. I firmly believe if we ever got a full acount of this murder, blow-by-garrote, so to speak, this would be one strange and twisted tale that nobody WOULD believe, even with the truth laid out for all to see.

That's why the killer got away with it, IMO: too much evidence and too many ways to interpret it all.