Globe and Linda Arndt/FFJ Article

Elle....

I think that Deja Nu has answered some of your questions, regarding Patsy and her attorney Patrick Burke in their quest to befriend Linda Arndt, quite well....

We should never forget that Patsy Ramsey was then and is now, a master manipulator and the ultimate charmer.....Some people are hard-wired that way from birth and Patsy is one of them...(There is even evidence of Patsy turning on her concern and charm in the ransom note..."be well rested", " We respect your company but not the country that it represents" (I am paraphrasing from the ransom note from memory) She couldn't even turn if off when she was pretending to be the kidnappers!....

Surely if we look back over the last 8 yrs. of the case, we could write a whole thread on the instances when Patsy tried to use her charm and manipulation to influence both individuals and the pulbic concerning this case....

In the instance of Linda Arndt, Patsy wasted no time in gaining the sympathy of this detective the very morning she arrived at the crime scene....So much so that Linda was intimidated into admitting all of the Ramsey's friends, their minister, and church members into the Ramsey home that first day even before the body was discovered in the basement.....

Linda Arndt fell into the Ramsey cover-up plan very readily from the beginning and I do not find it surprising that Patsy and her attorney invited her for a private social visit soon after the murder....They had identified her as the "weak link" in the investigation from the start and Patsy intended to use her to the fullest to find out what was going on in the investigation and also to help divert suspicion of the Ramseys and make it seem like they were co-operating with the police even though they were not.....They were refusing the all important interviews and the immediate lie detector tests and answering a number of relevant questions early on, however, Patsy had time and energy to consult with Linda....

It is sad, of course, about the distruction of Linda Arndt's career but she was at fault from the beginning in that she did not act professionally....Linda was trying to wear too many hats that day at the crime scene.....She was the lead detective on the sight of a "kidnapping", and as such, she was responsible for securing the crime scene and supervising and retaining personnel at the site to secure and investigate the scene.....

She was not responsible for the comfort of the Ramsey couple, yet she was intimidated into letting their consolation and comfort interfere with the integrity of the crime scene and with the early investigation of the crime.....

Linda did not follow proceedure, Linda failed in her role as detective....Linda may have been betrayed by her department who failed to send her the needed assistance, and she may later have been set up to take the fall for all of the investigation's failures, but what I am saying here is that Linda Arndt needs to ultimately take responsibility for being charmed by the Ramsey's in the first hours of the investigation into some sort of comfort zone with them where she failed to use her training as a detective and unwittingly aided the most obvious suspects of this crime (I realize that unitl the body was discovered by John and brought upstairs, that the crime scene was still considered a kidnapping scene), none-the-less, she violated the rules of investigation by making a decision to befriend the Ramseys rather than to look at them as possible suspects from the beginning....She made assumptions which she should not have because of their weath, community status and their ingratiating ways....

Linda may be a great person....Kind, caring etc. but she failed at the job of detective and helped to compromise this case from the beginning....

Perhaps Linda should explore careers in other fields such as counseling where evidently her talents are more suitable and where she can leave the Ramsey case behind instead of making it a life long sympathy plea....

Linda is yet another victim of the Ramsey case but she needs to admit her mistakes and move on....
Voyager

 

No BobC - I do NOT think you are wrong!! Excellent two posts there! and probably a LOT of truth in them! I was in the grocery store Friday night and saw the headlines on the Globe - and I just KNEW I had to buy it!!

 

But... he STILL asked Linda if she was alive??!!! of course he knew she was dead - :verdict:


Great going Tricia on the Globe article!!

 

Weren't they (police) gathering at some parking lot??

Totally agree with ya Elle -

with my dad we had a nice picture of him!

 

Niner

I hope sometime you will share more about your dad on the private part of the forum. I know many animal-lovers here who would love to hear stories about your dad and his clientele.

When you have time, of course!

 

"Weren't they (police) gathering at some parking lot??"

Actually no, Niner, they were gathering at the Dunkin Donuts...LOL Arndt was told they were all in a meeting and that's why her requests for backup were denied.

 

Yes, I know what you mean, WY. It's hard to prove exactly what was said, and a written report does CYA. This may well have been the visit where Linda lifted her sweater to prove she wasn't wired., so she didn't have tape recording of this visit either.

Yes, it would have been better if she had written it down. No doubt about it.

 

Deja

Elle_1 wrote: "A meeting that was sanctioned by Patsy's attorney, Patrick Burke, when Linda Arndt phones up and asks for a meeting in relation to Patsy's well being. I'm amazed Patrick Burke condoned this meeting, but it was arranged as a meeting with no talk about the investigation. I find this a bit on the odd side, Deja. Why would a detective have been allowed an hour visit to see Patsy Ramsey just to enquire about her health?"

Yes, Deja, I can see this could have been in Patrick Burke's mind. He knew just how he could use her. Going by the depo, Linda talks about having been advised to become friendly with Patsy's friends, and from the end of December to 13 May, 1997 she went for weekly walks with Barb Fernie . Quite a long time, but in spite of this, Linda maintains there was no close friendship involved there at all. As a detective, I could see this type of thing may occur quite a bit, in the course of duty.

She was told to be friendly with Patsy's friends, but she made this phone call to Patrick Burke to gain access to Patsy herself. This wasn't part of the deal Deja, was it? I don't think this was a wise choice, do you?

Yes, I still think she was being used and didn't know who to trust any more, even Steve Thomas. With Larry Mason's notes going astray she didn't want this to happen to hers, but I still think she should have written a report and put it away in a safe place until she found someone she could trust.

I believe I read she had some tapes put aside. I haven't had time to read the remainder of the depo yet, Deja, but I will. It's good other posters are joining in the discussion. Thank you for your time in helping me out here.

I will!.

 

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Elle_1[font=Arial[/b]
I would like to know just exactly where did all the other cops go after they left her alone in the Ramsey home with so many people to guard (?).
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Niner wrote:

Weren't they (police) gathering at some parking lot??

Totally agree with ya Elle -

I was thinking Tim Horton's for donuts and coffee, Niner, but that's Canada! :abnormal:

Looks like Deja was thinking the same thing. Is that where they really were, Deja?

 

I don't know where they really were, Elle. I do know there was a "short" staff available because it was the Christmas holiday and life in Boulder apparently didn't demand a full force at that time. Arndt was told they were all in a meeting which seems rather strange to me. Does that mean Arndt was the only BPD'er on the street in Boulder that morning? Why not dispatch French back to the house? Or another patrol officer? It didn't have to be a detective. Apparently, according to Arndt's depo, Wickman did come to the house at some point and left, taking the only other cop with him. What was that about? Surely Wickman could see for himself the chaos and all those people roaming around that house.

I tried to crawl into Arndt's head that morning to see things from her POV. She apparently was convinced JR killed JB, that JR was the bad guy. Now think for a moment if we were in that situation and believed that. Wouldn't there be sympathy for the "innocent" wife and surviving child? If Arndt bonded with PR, and frankly I can't be sure from merely reading a depo transcript, this could be the reason why.

 

Deja, this was an atrocious situation for Linda Arndt. I can't believe the number of male cops who must have passed through the Ramsey house that morning, and yet none of them rallied round her. What the hell were they thinking about? Surely they must have summed up the situation while they were there, and even demand that Linda Arndt needed strong support?

I read a bit more, and keep thinking I'm getting close to the end, but I still have more to read. I think I've covered most of what I think about Linda Arndt above. I feel towards the end Linda just didn't know who to trust any more in the BPD. I see that after all the talk about Linda not handing in a written report, she does at present have investigative notes in a safe place, which tells me she didn't trust anyone in the BPD any more, after Larry Mason's notes went missing. I think Linda Arndt was between a rock and a hard place. Catch 22

.I can't say I blame her for feeling the way she does. Even when she did hand in her Initial Report on the Ramsey case, it was handed over to the Ramsey attorneys without her permission. What a fiasco she went through. She was stymied at every turn.

She does finally admit to not handing in 4 - 5 months of reports, but states she wasn't pressed for them. That surprises me, Deja. She did state that a secretary took notes at some of the team interviews, and I suppose a printed copy would have been handed to all the team (?). Maybe she thought she didn't need to write a report (?).

Yes, Deja, I can see why this would have gone this way. In a way one would have thought she may have grown closer to Barb Fernie than Patsy Ramsey. She only had personal contact three times with Patsy, and other people were always present, but with Barb Fernie, it was once a week from the end of December - 13 May, 1997. From the deposition, but wasn't Patsy in Atlanta for a spell? However, I don't get the impression they became close at all. Barb Fernie felt protected when she was with her, but Linda never seemed to pick up anything crucial from these weekly talks.

Getting back to John Ramsey carrying JonBenét up the stairs like a plank. Isn't it the normal custom when someone tries to lift an unconscious, or sleeping child up, you put your left hand under the child's knees, and the other one under their neck, and then lift? He knew he couldn't go up the stairs carrying JB in the normal way.

John Ramsey KNEW JonBenét was already DEAD. There's no doubt about this at all, Deja, is there?

 

"John Ramsey KNEW JonBenét was already DEAD. There's no doubt about this at all, Deja, is there?"

Not in MY mind, Elle. :2cents:

 

Here are the most prominent, Trish.
***
Page 24:
12 Q. Other than saying that, did you ever give
13 any more specifics than simply the fact that you knew
14 who killed JonBenet?
15 A. Specifics with regard to what?
16 Q. As to the identity of the individual.
17 A. I know I didn't name the individual, and I
18 don't remember.
19 Q. When did you first arrive at this opinion
20 relative to the incident?
21 A. Which opinion?
22 Q. As to who killed JonBenet?
23 A. When John Ramsey came up with the steps
24 with JonBenet in his arms.
25 Q. I didn't hear that. I'm sorry. When John
Page 25:
1 Ramsey came up the stairs with JonBenet -
2 A. In his arms.
3 Q. That's when you formed the opinion?
4 A. That's when many things that had not made
5 sense and were disturbing during the morning made
6 sense.
7 Q. All right. So you formed the conclusion he
8 had done it?
9 A. It was clear that John had killed JonBenet.
. . .
22 Q. And that's when you formed your opinion
23 that John Ramsey was the perpetrator of this crime?
24 A. On December 26th, yes.

Page 27:
20 Q. What specifically about John Ramsey's
21 behavior led you to this conclusion?
22 A. Well, based on my training and experience,
23 it's not one thing. It's a culmination of all the
24 behaviors that day, his background that I was able to
25 glean, and his behavior and his comments after he
Page 28:
1 brought JonBenet up in particular.
. . .
25 Q. So to this day, have you formed an opinion
Page 29:
1 as to whether Patsy was involved in the murder of her
2 daughter?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And what's that conclusion?
5 A. That John actually killed his daughter, but
6 Patsy was involved in presenting the murder as
7 something other than a murder.

Page 32:
5 Q. And when did that feeling change?
6 A. When John brought JonBenet up.
7 Q. So then you thought it was a murder and the
8 murder took place in the Ramsey house at that point in
9 time?
10 A. It was clear it was a murder.
11 Q. And that it had taken place in the Ramsey
12 house? I'm trying to establish what you conceived as
13 the crime seen in terms of that murder.
14 A. Given the information from the patrol
15 officers, yes, that the murder had happened inside the
16 home.
17 Q. So at least at that point in time when you
18 were, when you observed John Ramsey bring up JonBenet,
19 you had concluded that the Ramsey house was the crime
20 scene for that murder of JonBenet?
21 A. That was the starting point, yes.

Page 44:
4 Q. But in terms of an actual sexual act that's
5 implicit in the term of incest, you're referring to
6 John Ramsey and JonBenet?
7 A. Yes.

Page 117:
4 Q. I mean, you indicated that on that very day
5 when you saw John Ramsey walking up the stairs holding
6 JonBenet, you believed he was the murderer, correct?
7 A. That's when things made sense, yes.
8 Q. Okay. And I believe you said in some
9 interview that it was the look in his eyes that was one
10 of the most contributing factors in that regard; is
11 that correct?
12 A. No.
13 Q. What was it, something about his demeanor?
14 What was it?
15 A. I don't know what you're referring to, but
16 when he came up the stairs is when.
17 Q. Yeah. But what was it about his coming up
18 the stairs holding JonBenet that convinced you that he
19 was the murderer?
20 A. It was all the information I had up to that
21 time.
22 Q. Well, you didn't have all that much
23 information at that time, did you?
24 A. Well, with respect to now, no, but -
25 Q. But it was at that time, and so all I want
Page 118:
1 to do is explore your mind-set at that time when you
2 concluded, as you saw him walking up the stairs with
3 the body, holding the body of JonBenet, that you
4 concluded that he was the murderer. What facts did you
5 have in your mind at that point in time?
6 A. Oh, I think I told you before. It was just
7 all the information I had beforehand and the behaviors
8 I had observed.
9 Q. Okay. so was it mostly demeanor evidence,
10 his demeanor evidence?
11 A. It was part of it. It was the totality of
12 everything I had.

Page 120:
12 Q. I can't understand you. You say you see
13 him carrying the body and now it makes sense. I just
14 can't understand where you're coming from there. If
15 you can, just explain what makes sense and why
16 specifically.
17 A. No forced entry; no tracks; no breaking in
18 the house; no sounds heard during the night; he's the
19 last one to see her; behaviors by him; between he and
20 his wife; by others; the ransom note in and of itself.
21 I can't list the whole, all of the information.
22 Q. The fact that he was able to go right down
23 in the basement and find the body and bring her up, is
24 that a part of it?
25 A. How he carried her was part of it.

Page 124:
16 Q. You wanted - you were prepared to use your
17 weapon in case your suspicions became fact and he [John Ramsey]
18 became a threat to you; is that correct?
19 A. I was prepared to defend the rest of the
20 people in that home.
21 Q. With the use of your weapon?
22 A. If need be.

Page 125:
7 Q. So did you - well, I'm trying to get a
8 direct answer. My simple question just deals with you,
9 not everybody else. As to you, you felt concerned for
10 your personal safety as it related to John Ramsey,
11 correct?
12 A. I felt there was a threat to my -
13 Q. From John Ramsey?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. To your personal safety?
16 A. At that moment, yes.

Page 126:
1 A. I was alone in the house with a man who,
2 whose daughter was murdered. I believed it was him [John Ramsey],
3 and I didn't know how he was going to react.
. . .
7 Q. I'm just asking you a question. You
8 observed his eyes, did you not?
9 A. Uh-huh.
10 Q. Was there anything in the look in his eyes
11 that added to this sense of threat from him?
12 A. At one point, yes.
13 Q. And what was that?
14 A. At the same time we were bending over both
15 on the floor next to JonBenet.
16 Q. How close was your face to his at that
17 point?
18 A. Inches.
19 Q. Did he ever say anything to you that
20 appeared to be consistent with a threat to your safety?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Did he make any overt act that you
23 translated as being a threat to your safety?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Did you have this concern for your personal
Page 127:
1 safety regarding John's conduct after that moment?
2 A. I know that the threat was immediate.
3 Q. But did it last throughout the day?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Was it just for the moment?
6 A. It was in that moment.
. . .
14 Q. All right. So can you recall whether or not
15 you felt in the least bit threatened by John Ramsey
16 after that moment?
17 A. That day?
18 Q. Yes.
19 A. Indirectly, yes.
20 Q. In what way?
21 A. Eller.
22 Q. Tell me about that.
23 A. Eller had said that I was a key witness in
24 the case and I knew information no one else knew and I
25 had to be careful and take a different route home every
Page 128:
1 day, people would be, I should be extra careful and
2 people would be willing to kill me.
3 Q. When did he tell you that?
4 A. Well, within the first week.
5 Q. But that day, did you have any further

Page 158:
2 Q. Who did you think would take your life?
3 A. I didn't know.
4 Q. Okay. John Ramsey was one apparently; is
5 that right?
6 A. He could have.

Page 257:
13 I think I laid out in detail why I believed
14 John Ramsey was responsible for JonBenet's murder. And
15 that's the gist of what I remember.

Page 258:
21 Q. Well, you just told us that you thought it
22 was John, and then you told us that Chief Koby thought
23 it was Patsy. Did you compare analyses in terms of
24 what led you respectively to those conclusions?
25 A. I believe I already said I told Chief Koby my
Page 259:
1 reason for identifying John.

 

It's crystal clear she thought it was John. I don't. I am sure she was correct in assessing John being an immediate threat.

If I were put in her position, I would most likely have emphaty for Patsy.

 

Futhermore, I purchased the Globe yesterday. It was nice to read the article in hard copy and see the pictures. Best of all was the special feeling I got from being a member of FFJ. :bowdown: It was good press, Tricia, you twisty, you. It was great press.

Additionally, I saw my favorite puke is getting a divorce.

 

I didn't see the Globe on any of the stands when I was out tonight. I thought it was on sale last week, so it's still being sold JC?