Grandpa Paugh

Housing

From what I read, the R's went from the Fernies to Jay Elowskys, THEN to the Stines. At least, that's how their book reads.

Cookie--yes! I found that term (the word 'storm') odd, as well. Refugees? At that point? Why did they connect to those words, at that point in time? I think that's telltale of what went on their MINDS and what had gone on prior to the 911 call in that house. Surely, educated persons like themselves could find a more accurate term/s, I think. But, that's just me.

Cookie--do you think Burke was involved in JB's death as to why they were cold to him? I'm a doubter in his involvement, but my mind keeps a little window open there, as he COULD have done it. Again, I don't want to put you on the spot, and thanks for answering my questions, too.

One more---did you ever get the feel that Burke had a temper? I'm sure JAR had a temper......?

 

Temper, temper

Yes, BR had a temper, but I believe, he expressed it quite differently than JAR. After all, he was only 9 years old. Just imagine, what he was living with: a mother, who was terminally ill, a father, who was rarely available, a gorgeous little sister, who got most of the attention. He was low man on the totem pole.

I believe that the NY Post case will eventually answer alot of questions for us concerning BR's involvement or uninvolvement that night. That's all I want to say at this point.

 

PR & JR

Sorry I haven't had the opportunity to read the book, but a while back, after reading some of the forums postings I opted to read one of Larry King's live written transcipts. I couldn't help wonder why Patsy and John both kept referring to JB as the CHILD.
I'm a mother and a grand mother and I couldn't phathom referring to my daughter as THE CHILD. Evne when she was molested and I talked to Police I always called her my daughter or by her name or MY BABY. SOme of these parents when I see them on TV or videos they remind me of the smae cold, but fake look Susan Smith had on her face when she talked to reporters about bringing her boys back. I said she was guilty from the beginning and I say the same about PR.

 

Actually shy

That type of wording is absolutely commonplace in people who kill their children. The psychology going on there is that the parent is feeling so much guilt and remorse that he/she must distance himself/herself mentally from "the child." It's one of those freaky little survival mechanisms that the human mind comes up with in times of extreme duress. Referring to Jonebenet as "that child" effectively removes the ownership of Jonbenet AND the crime.

Another similar survival mechanism is referring to the crime as "it." Notice that Patsy doesn't say "I didn't kill my daughter Jonbenet"--instead she says "I had nothing to do with it."

 

Patsy did say "I did not kill my daughter, JonBenet" but I cannot remember where it was. In fact I remember reading that she said several times "I did not kill my daughter" and that she said, "you know, they killed my baby".
Patsy is very odd and hard for me to figure out. I will say that I do not believe that she killed JonBenet, but I do believe she was part of the elaborate cover-up.

 

Patsy started mentioning

JonBenet by name on LKL, etc., after her winged monkeys on the internet read the immense criticism of PR and JR on this particular point. You do know, of course, that Susan Bennett and Susan Stine monitored all the fora as part ofthe Ramsey Spin Team?

 

The exact quote: "I did not kill my daughter..."...

I'd attribute that quote to John AND Patsy Ramsey, and we find them both saying this during an appearance by the Ramseys on CNN, May 1st, 1997.<ol><b> Interview transcript excerpt from the May 1st, 1997 CNN Interview with John and Patsy Ramsey.</b>

<i><B>VOICEOVER:</B> John and Patsy Ramsey, parents of murdered JonBenét Ramsey, met Thursday with reporters from three metro-area newspapers, three TV stations and one radio station.</I>

<B>JOHN RAMSEY:</B> We are pleased to be here this morning. You've been anxious to meet us for some time, and I can tell you why it's taken us so long. We felt there was really an obligation to talk with the Boulder police ... The interrogation of Patsy and I, that is, I think as you know, been successfully accomplished yesterday. So we feel now we have a little more freedom to talk out and clear some issues we wanted to address.

I think one of the issues that was distressing to us and that perhaps caused some bias of opinion is why did we bring lawyers into this process early on, and I can tell you both how that happened and why it happened. The how is that ... after the tragedy we were being told by friends and family, and a close friend of mine who's also a practicing attorney, took me aside and said, "John, I think there are things developing here that I would like to ask your permission to do some things that I think are necessary to be done." And I said, "Fine, do it." And so he retained counsel for Patsy and I, and, we later learned - and later was in the next few days - that, the reason we did this is that , sadly for our country, most tragedies of this nature, the killing of a child, apparently in the majority of cases, are family related. And I think that's a, that's a that's a tragic statement for our country that because we were the parents of JonBenét that we were automatically put in the suspect pool and so to not have knowledgeable counsel, my close friends thought would be foolish. And we also at that time, as parents, I looked at retaining attorneys.

We also brought in a couple of investigative firms and experts; there were several. I felt a very helpless feeling as to what can I do to help solve this case. ... So we, as we looked at the group of people that we pulled together, it was not only to advise us in this process but hopefully to assist the investigation, too, and get closure.

To those of you who may want to ask, let me address very directly, <font color="firebrick"><b>I did not kill my daughter, JonBenet.</b></font color> There have also been innuendoes that she has been or was sexually molested. I can tell you those were the most hurtful innuendoes to us as a family. They are totally false. JonBenét and I had a very close relationship, I will miss her dearly for the rest of my life.

<B>PATSY RAMSEY:</B> I'm Patsy Ramsey, JonBenet's mother, and I'm grateful that we are finally able to sit together face to face. I'm appalled that ... either John or I could be involved in such a hideous, heinous crime. But let me assure you that <font color="firebrick"><b>I did not kill JonBenet,</b></font color> I did not have anything to do with it. I loved that child with my whole of my heart and soul.

We made a firm commitment that we would not speak openly until we had spent time ... with the authorities. That was successfully accomplished yesterday, and now we feel like it's time to talk with all of you. Quite frankly, over the past months (starts to cry) it has not been easy to talk with anyone. As with anyone who has suffered the loss of a child, this is a time spent with family and friends and clergy people and, quite frankly, a lot of time in prayer. We feel like God has a master plan for all of us and that in the fullness of time our family will be united again and we will see JonBenet.

<b>{{{snip}}}</b></ol>The interview seems to me, at this long remove, rather stilted and scripted.

I like the part about "We made a firm commitment that we would not speak openly until we had spent time ... with the authorities. That was successfully accomplished yesterday, and now we feel like it's time to talk with all of you."

Mmm hm.

Perhaps you'd like to hear it for yourself.

To hear John say he did not kill JonBenet, <b><a href="http://www.cnn.com/US/9705/01/ramsey/john.didnot.30sec.327k.wav">CLICK HERE</a></b>.

To hear Patsy say she did not kill JonBenet, <b><a href="http://www.cnn.com/US/9705/01/ramsey/patsy.didnot.30sec.313k.wav">CLICK HERE</a></b>.

Now, where did I put that copy of <b><a href="http://www.truster.com/html/pages/indexp.html">Truster voice analyzer software</a></b>...?

You can find the entire transcript of the Mayday 1997 CNN interview with the Ramseys <b><a href="http://www.cnn.com/US/9705/01/ramsey/index.html">HERE</a></b>.

You can find the entire transcript of the original January 6th, 1997 Brian Cabell CNN interview with the Ramseys <b><a href="http://www.cnn.com/US/9701/06/slain.girl/9701.01.ep.html">HERE</a></b>.

 

Damn, Dunv

You are GOOD!!!

 

notice -

After Patsy says she didn't kill her daughter she goes on to say " I loved THAT CHILD...."

She just practiced saying she didn't kill JonBenet but forgot to practice saying I loved HER with all my heart.

 

Why so rude Lurker? Just because you believe that Patsy killed JonBenet and I don't?
Edited to add, Lurker, I don't believe any of those people were on the internet as of 1/1/97 to know what people were saying about the Ramsey's either.
I cannot for the life of me believe that if John or Patsy killed JonBenet they would have covered for each other. I don't think they loved each other enough to do that. I don't think they love anyone as much as they love themselves. I don't believe they would have stayed married either. No, I believe they are covering for their son. I believe he may have accidentally killed JonBenet and his parents, who were so afraid of losing him as well, covered up for him.

Thank you Dunvegan. I knew I had read that early on, but couldn't remember where it was.

 

Have we met before?

You sound awfully familiar.

Thanks, Dunvegan, for the actual factual statements of the daunting duo.

 

'Til Death Do Us Part? No, Not Even Then...

There is more than one possible scenario that could account for a marriage that is less a “bond of love†as much as it has become a hellish “bond of silence.â€

I do not doubt that Patsy Ramsey was reliving her Miss America dream somewhat vicariously through JonBenet's grueling pagent schedule (seemingly designed to create a "thoroughbred and world-class pageant winner.") I do not for a moment doubt that the loss of JonBenet was a great blow (no pun intended) emotionally and psychologically to Patsy Ramsey.

However, those who say it is impossible for a loving parent to "brutally strangle" their child are not looking at the possible "mercy killing" aspect of JonBenet's death.

What if there are complexities surrounding the events of Christmas Day 1996 that required an “accidental†murder to be covered up? What if the parents could not summon help (and, consequently, an investigation) until the scene were staged, due to some extenuating circumstance(s) surrounding the event?

If the skull-crushing blow to the head that nearly cleaved the cranium in two did not completely kill JonBenet (e.g., if automatic nervous functions like breathing were persistent after the "accident") would not a loving parent <b><I>possibly</I></b> have wished to end JonBenet’s suffering?

The sound of the strike and the skull cleaving asunder must have been stunningly dramatic and, prima facie, definitively fatally traumatic.

The person who wielded the weapon could have been convinced that JonBenet's injury pre-told of a horrible and inescapable eventual death for JonBenet.

There could have been convulsions. Eyes rolled back only exposing whites...a horrible lingering death in the cards for the little girl.

One telling thing is that JonBenet's strangulation has been referred to as "gentle"...which is uncharacteristic of blitz murders.

Perhaps a loving parent would wish to take JonBenet out of this misery with a mercy killing...ergo, the gentle strangulation.

(There was, contrary to some speculation, no overkill exhibited...only staging. Overkill would have presented with many blows to the head in the initial attack. There seems to have been only one blow in JonBenet's case. The strangulation was not such that the ligature cut through all of the neck derma...the cord was buried in a furrow on JBR's neck, however, it was "gently" constricted...not furiously constricted so as to cut into flesh and draw blood.)

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that the strangulation by ligature might have been a “mercy†which a ostensibly “merciful killer†defaulted to, and which served to both put JonBenet out of her misery, and create a staged confusion of intent at the murder scene...just as JonBenet's body was "mercifully" wrapped in a warm blanket and respectfully hidden from view in the basement "wine cellar" room...the absolute most distant room with a closure in the entire house.

Meanwhile, I'll do a separate thread with a theory addressing the authorship of the ransom note.

 

IMHO

Reruns are OK on TV Land, but repeated viewings never improve the quality of the scripts.

 

Cookie

Sorry it took me so long to get back with the answer about who the other "gentleman" was that went to Boulder from Atlanta with JR's brother the night of Dec 26th. Yes, it was Rod Westmoreland, according to Steve Thomas' book. He was John's financial advisor but introduced himself to the police that were there as an attorney.

I wonder what was at stake for him if the truth came out.

 

Alex...I believe you are correct...we've batted that theory around many times and many of us feel the Rams are together simply to protect Burke.

Mels