IDIs In Denial

Great post...sounds exactly like my MOTHER-IN-LAW. It's uncanny...you have decribed her along with John.

 

Did y'all notice the size of Nedra's headstone compared to Patsy's? Of course, Nedra's is for Don Paugh as well. It's just strange how that looks, considering the Patsy and John seemed to be the FAT CATS in the family. John had Nedra fired, after all, when he shut down that office in Atlanta.

 

Yeah, there has to be room for two people, under Don and Nedra's headstone. But, look at Beth's compared to Patsy's...its bigger....and there is only ONE person buried there (that I KNOW of).

 

I understand the "room for two" idea, but think about WHY John doesn't have at least the SAME arrangement for himself and Patsy. I mean, not only is his "beloved" Patsy there, but so are his two dead daughters, JonBenet and Beth. Is there some reason he's thinking he WOULDN'T be buried there, as well? Even if he remarries, his next wife would surely understand his desire to be buried with his daughters. I mean, being a Christian woman, which of course she MUST be....

 

Now THAT is an excellent point. Most married couples buy side by side plots...to be buried next to each other...using one tombstone. My dad and mom have one like that, my mom died over ten years ago...my dad is still living, so on his side...its just his name with his birthdate and a slash....like this...May 10, 19?? -

I can't remember the year that he was born..there are not actually question marks on his tombstone..LOL

My guess is that John is distancing himself from Patsy...just like they distanced themselves from just about everything in their house, the night of the murder. I think that the fact that they don't share a plot...speaks volumes. I think that deep down, he probably resented Patsy for the rage attack that she bestowed on JB that night.

 

On the contrary, I think that deep down, he just doesn't care.

 

My condolences. I don't have a true narcissist in my life at present, but I've known some and some people in my life have narcissistic features such as the inability to consider things from another person's viewpoint. This person is genuinely puzzled when you try to explain why you disagree with him - he must feel that he is ALWAYS right. Very frustrating. Narcissists can be so freaking ARROGANT. It's really hard to be around.

 

Now that we are thinking about this, remember that in Patsy's last public interview, the one in Hawaii, she was speaking of how "all the fun people" were "on the other side" or something close to that. Then she turned towards John and says "Sorry, honey", and John says something like "No problem." The whole things was bizarre, of course, as Patsy was so obviously ill.

I don't know. It just seems strange to me that John wouldn't have thought to put up a double headstone for Patsy and himself, there with his daughters, both who died untimely, violent deaths. If you look at the grave pics of the headstones, there they are: all females. No males. It's just all so tragic.

 

Also, remember how John reacted on LKL for the 10th anniversary of JB's murder when asked if he ever thought of what JB would be like today if she'd lived: he said she was a "handful" and that was pretty much IT. With Burke looking on backstage. I have mentioned this at least a dozen times, and I can't get over it. It was so disrespectful of a MURDERED CHILD, IMO.

I think John was already distancing himself from both Patsy and JonBenet. Probably for years. JonBenet was only significant to him when he needed a campaign hook, it appeared to me.

 

I agree- I can't believe Larry King didn't press that further. "You mean that's ALL you have to say about her on the 10th anniversary of her death?"
That was the best he could do to say she was a handful?

That was a very good point about PR never having properly formed her own personality because of Nedra. JBR had a much more defied and willfull personality - she would never have been bullied by her mother as she got older the way Nedra bullied PR.

 

Good post!

 

Guys, I just got off from a 12 hr. shift. I started a new job by the way and I love it at a nursing home. So I am tired, please bare with me.
I just have to say here lately, I'm so confused. I'm sure each of us has been. But I recently lost my uncle of 48 yrs., almost 49 as of 3/31/08. He was a drug addict and an alcoholic. He was a loner for the past few years. He lived with my family a couple of times over the past 3 years. He was a great guy, sober. He scared you when he was messed up. He had 6 children, 2 that are now adults and the younger 4 still in elementary and high school. He worked the oil field all his life, as did his dad that was absent from a very early age. He just got off a 7 day stretch, drinking and took muscle relaxers and even cut up a Fentanyl patch (don't know what he did with this)...But anyways, he just went to sleep and didn't wake up. The ME stated it was natural causes but a toxicology test was taken. He had a blood clot about 2 years ago and did not take his medicine. He was macho. I'm not sure what he died from. The drugs? Maybe.....but he had done those like he did for so long. Maybe his heart just gave out or the blood clot returned. I'll never know. But I do know he was tired....tired of this life.
The reason I bring this up is that the night after he died, I had so much anger that his older 2 children didn't have any kind of relationship with him. They did not attend the funeral. The grandparents (maternal) to them wouldn't allow it. Now I can understand that to a degree. But the step grandpa was seen by my spouse the next day and my spouse asked him, Did you hear about Jimmy? He said "yes" with a great big ole grin on his face as if the world was a jewel. My husband said he hadn't felt like sticking his hand through the window and hitting someone in so long.
I can always remember a Dr. I worked for in the ER.....he talked so fast when I first began, it scared me. But once I figured out his speech, and knew what he needed......He was someone I respected so much because he genuinely cared. He died of a heart attack at age 44. I can always remember him telling me "you can't kill chit".....
Sorry for the long post, guess I needed to vent. Thanks for reading. But John Ramsey to me, is chit. Why does chit continue to live? Why don't they hurt? And when they leave this life??? Do they ever feel any kind of remorse? What is the purpose of these kind of people?

 

Vent on and use this to help you get through... :grouphug:

Escaping life by dying would just not be suitable enough for John Ramsey in my eyes, so that one I can live with!

 

I think John Ramsey separated his life, to some extent, from Patsy and JonBenet well before 12/25/'96. He was able to compartmentalize and continue his quest after that day with Patsy in tow because HIS needs were more important to HIM than such things as the truth and the law. He's still chasing some kind of self image having added 'victim' to his list of accomplishments.

 

I am sorry for the loss of your uncle, JoeJame. From what you've said, it sounds as though his older children are pretty angry at him, for both what he did while alive and probably that he now has no future in which to get clean and sober. It may have been told to the other side of the family, some of the things he did while his kids were younger, and there might have been some pretty awful stuff, so they are not particularly sad to see him go. Your uncle sounds as if he lived a really hard life, in the oilfield and away. I am so sorry for your loss. I can verify through close friends that having an alcoholic for a parent is like slow and painful torture, and leaves them devastated for life if they don't seek help for their own damage. Some will become alcoholics too, as it is a family disease. Some find other ways of coping, like work addiction, perfectionism, anger, etc.

And we just don't know why God takes anyone, good or bad. It's frustrating - why do children get cancer and die? Why do drunks walk away from an accident they caused, and their victims die? I think I need to have God fill me in on the plan!

 

I'm sorry to hear about your uncle, too, JoeJame. Heymom said it well: we never know what another's experience in life really is. Alcoholism, any kind of drug addiction, is devastating to the family, particularly the children who have no choice while watching their lives being systematically destroyed by someone who should be protecting them.

Having said that, the alcoholic is a human being, too, and whatever led him into that addiction, the spirit of that person has to be mourned when it's lost forever, no matter the cause. It was insensitive of the man to grin over that loss, and I understand your and your husband's hurt. All I can tell you is to let it go. What is done is done, and it's past, as well.

I agree with Paradox about John Ramsey moving on. Maybe we expect too much from him, though. Obviously he's not going to go on camera and say, Oh, remember everything we said about an intruder? JUST KIDDING! He'll be dodging this bullet the rest of his life. That can't be fun for him.

Perhaps we're all built with some kind of ability to move beyond such grief we experience. Otherwise, we'd simply sit down and die from it. Whatever the Ramseys have done, in their minds, it's justified, NO DOUBT. So they use what they can to MOVE ON.

Then there's Prozac....

 

You're right, KK, grinning when someone has just passed on is cruel, no matter what. Even alcoholics have dignity as a human being, if you realize that it is a disease and not a character flaw. It sounds as if the whole family is in need of recovery - it's not just for the alcoholic but for the family and friends as well. Al-Anon is very helpful for anyone who is bothered by someone else's drinking, even if that person is no long alive or no longer drinking. The family can maintain the craziness even when the drunk gets sober!

If the subject ever comes up, you might mention Al-Anon Family Groups and tell them to look up a meeting nearby if they want to hear more about living with an alcoholic. It was formed by the wife of the man who formed AA.

 

It is understandable that family members can find it very hard to forgive someone whose addiction has destroyed not only himself, but the famly as well.
But sneering and grinning at someone's death is indeed cruel and shows a disturbing lack of empathy. That smug "serves him right" attitude is totally repulsive imo.
It is very easy to point the finger at someone whose addiction contributed to his early death. But the person pointing the finger may have other flaws himself - mercilessness for example.

 

Yes, the reminder is usually, "When you point your finger at someone, there are 3 fingers pointing back at yourself!"

Maybe it was a rueful smile rather than a gleeful grin. Or, maybe that person doesn't want to show anyone his true feelings, or he's angry and not behaving very well.

 

Believe me, JR will face the music one day.