In which room do you think the head blow occurred?

From some reading I did last night, "breaking" rigor can mean simply massaging the muscles until they loosen up again. It's not like Meyer had to break her arms in order to move them. But then again, people who need to get a fingerprint from a deceased person may have a little more time, and an embalmer needs to take time in order to have a good-looking end product.

 

Karen, your 2nd link didn't work.

 

Wow that's weird. I copied and pasted koldkases' post and the link was included in that so I don't know how to get to it myself.

 

Let's try it again.

Book

 

Ah, I stand corrected, kk. You're right, ST did say she did ooze some blood out onto her sleeve.

 

But if that came from her nose or ear and there wasn't any blood on her face area when she was found doesn't that mean she was also cleaned up in her facial/ear area? There wasn't any indication of that in the autospy when they used the light and found her thighs smeared where she had been cleaned up.

I don't think she bled from her ear or nose from the head wound. There is no indication of that. Maybe in the mucus that ran down her cheek there is a little but maybe that's not blood giving it that color. I think she was foaming at the mouth as well as convulsing before she lost consciousness.

 

All I know from our experience is that with the skull fracture my son had, he did bleed from his right ear. Granted, his fracture was near his ear, but the pediatric neurologist told me that blood in the skull will seek any outlet so a head injury patient is very likely to have blood coming from one or both of the ears and/or the nose. With the size of JonBenet's skull fracture, essentially splitting her skull in half, I find it almost impossible to believe she wasn't bleeding from her ears.

After he fell, when I saw blood starting to ooze out of my son's ear, I realized that something serious may have happened inside his head. If the Ramseys saw the same thing, maybe out of both of JonBenet's ears, I think they probably recognized it as a bad sign, a very bad sign, especially since she also lost and never regained consciousness. My son was screaming and rolling on the ground, he was conscious but not fully responsive. I was afraid he would do more damage to his brain so I was trying to get him to stop moving while I dialed 911. He wouldn't stop screaming which sent me into a panic. I couldn't get 911 on my cell phone. As I said before, some first responders happened by and took over, managed to calm him down and get an ambulance there.

 

I had a thought last night after my post about the golf clubs and it relates to Learnin's question about in which room did the head blow occur.

One of the problems we have with what we know of the case evidence is we tend to associate certains room with certain items; for example, the Maglite and the kitchen, JonBenet's pillow with her bedroom, the golf clubs with the basement, etc. However, those items could have been moved in the night or have started in different places to where they were found on the morning of December 26th.

We tend to have a static view of the crime scene and forget the disarray of the original action.

Because I believe a golf club was used to cause JonBenet's head blow, my first thought is the incident must have occurred in the basement, but Kolar, who has seen all the evidence, believes it happened in the kitchen or dining area.

What if the original conflict happened in the basement with JonBenet following Burke down there? However, the finale occured when JonBenet fled the basement, with Burke chasing her and holding the golf club.

Pehaps JonBenet ran out of the basement up the stairs and into the kitchen area. Burke was right behind JonBenet and hit her with the golf club as she dodged the blow by ducking her head or stumbled and fell to her knees with her head facing downward. So, the actual head blow occured in the kitchen/dining area but with one of the golf clubs in the basement. The golf club could have been returned to the basement in the clean up and staging of the crime scene.

 

Well, you would think, Karen, they would have known, without doubt, that there had been blood in the ear, nasal passages or on the face. And, if there had been, why was LE asking PR if JBR had nosebleeds, etc.?

By this questioning, it sounds as if they are trying to find out where the blood on the pillow came from. If they had discovered blood in her nose or ear, they would know where it came from.

 

If she was struck with something (and most likely she was), then, the weapon could've been taken to any place in the house or it could've been laying out on the lawn like the golf club which was found out there.

I wonder why Kolar believes the headblow occured in the kitchen area? Is it because of the pineapple and BR's fingerprints on the spoon? Or is there something else?

 

That's what I was wondering, Learnin. Is there something else Kolar knows that we don't, that makes him believe the head blow occured in the kitchen/dining area. Is it something in the Grand Jury testimony that he can't reveal? Or is it just his conclusion based on the evidence he has seen, just as Steve Thomas came to his conclusion based on what he knew.

 

The blood from her ears could have been part of the clean-up, yes? It would have stopped flowing once she died, and could then be cleaned up for good.

 

The autopsy never noted any blood in her ears, nose or mouth. It only mentioned tan mucus on her sleeve, cheek and nose. I have to go back and check. Even if the Rs wiped away any blood that oozed out, the coroner would have seen blood deeper inside, where wiping can't reach, even if the blood was dried, just the same as he noted blood and semi-liquid and dried blood in and on her vagina.

 

Yes thank you. In reading all the links about head injuries koldkase posted I learned bleeding doesn't always happen with a head injury, skull fracture, etc. It's not a given. I don't think she bled anywhere from any orifices in her head region because there is no evidence of it and it's not in the autopsy report, which it should be. So it is absent. The blood on the pillowcase may have been a blood stain from a prior nosebleed or it even could have been caused by someone putting the pillow under her head that night and that large round abrasion on the side of her face may have been bleeding a bit. The blood drop on her sleeve probably happened when she was sexually abused. I won't even venture to guess how that got there but if it is a drop then it dropped from something obviously.

 

There still could have been a small amount (a few drops) that may have oozed out from her nose or mouth. The "tan" color to the mucus could be indicative of dried blood, which turns brownish when exposed to the air.

 

I wondered about this too and mentioned it, but haven't read this in Kolar's book yet. So he thinks this too! Oh goody!

 

Or taken outside and dumped in the yard, hoping the elements would interfere with physical evidence.

Excellent speculation, Cherokee! That the incident started in the basement and JB ran upstairs. That could explain how the vaginal injury/attack could have happened. She was attacked in the basement, screamed (heard by neighbor), ran upstairs and he chased her with the golf club.

Do we know for sure when the acute vaginal injury was inflicted relative to JBR's death? Is there a time frame that is possible, or is it certain that it happened within minutes of her death?

Could the secret evidence we don't know about be something that indicates the progression of an attack from the basement to the kitchen/dining area? What could it be? Blood evidence?

 

I don't think it's really brown enough to indicate blood from that head injury. The pictures show more of a foaming of the mouth. At least that's MO.

 

Yes. her cheek stain seems more to be whitish-clear- like saliva, mixed with mucus/vomit, as when the stomach is empty. The autopsy confirmed the last food eaten (the pineapple) had already moved from her stomach to her small intestine.

 

Yea, you couldn't get all of the blood out of the nose or ear canal.