Info on garrote knot from PMPT

OK, just checking the end we can see of the garrote:

http://www.acandyrose.com/garrote4.jpg

And here's another pic of the garrote on JonBenet, and I have some MORE questions about this photo, but for now, you can see another view of the end of that cord on the neck:

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetfaceathouse.jpg

 

Because, she was trying to make it look like someone else did this, not her. She was trying to make it look like a "man" did this. The staging had to be related to how someone else would have committed this crime.

No intruder would bother searching for scissors if the knife was there.

Another thought has come to me. what if Patsy Ramsey was already in a bad rmood when she left the White's party. For all we know maybe John Ramsey was flirting with some other female guest at the party, and Patsy's rage had already begun, and JonBenét got the brunt of it. Just a thought (?)

 

OK, that might work. I tell you what, if she was thinking in that kind of detail after bludgeoning JonBenet, all by herself, then she is one hard woman. It would have taken all night, if she did all this alone.

So she went looking for a knife, the first one didn't work at all, so she goes for the one in the cabinet? Uses it, then takes it downstairs to finish the garrote with the handle? Throwing Burke under the bus?

Oh, now that's cold. Maybe she meant to get rid of Burke's knife, but just left it on the counter downstairs accidentally?

But notice that ALL the ends of the cord are frayed badly from being cut with those knives/a knife.

Now I have to wonder, where on earth did she get the idea for a HANDLE?

I have speculated that she had to use the paintbrush to try to cover up the prior vaginal injuries, which means she knew they were there. But there was blood on the paintbrush end, so she broke it off and it went the way of the rest of the cord and duct tape. Then she tied the paintbrush on the garrote at the end to cover up using it for the molestation. Perhaps she didn't know the sliver of wood would be left in the vagina?

And that sliver of wood in the vagina, that's a problem as well. How did it get there? If the paintbrush hadn't been broken, why would there BE a sliver of wood. It implies the paintbrush was already broken when inserted, or that a finger was inserted AFTER the paintbrush was broken and that's how the wood got on the finger.

Which pretty much changes what I thought about that before. That would mean the paintbrush was broken, THEN she was molested with either the broken paintbrush before it was tied into the garrote, or the killer inserted a finger into her after breaking the paintbrush.

But then that would mean the paintbrush had blood on the end if it was used for the insertion. I guess LE knows the answer to that, but we don't.

OK, my head is swimming and I have some things to do. Anyone feel free to jump in and help with things I've forgotten or ideas or point out where the flaws are here.

Back later.

 

Could be, Elle, I doubt we'll ever know exactly what set this off that night, but I'm remembering the flashlight, and the "strange lights" the neighbor noticed, and the usual house lights that were off.

This isn't something that happened in an hour. This all took a long time, didn't it?

 

You know KK, on going over your post, it really makes me see how ludicrous this staging was, but the craziest thing is the fact that the Ramseys got away with it. What criminial/pedophile in his right mind would hang around a house with a family sleeping upstairs, while he decides how he is going to go about finishing off this crime?

About the sliver of wood, it was never determined if it was wood, it may well have been a particle from the lacquered paint covering the paint brush. I remember reading there was blood in the vagina, so it had to have come from the sharp end of the broken brush, I'm thinking.

I've never been one of the posters who thought John Ramsey had sexual interests in his youngest daughter, but Patsy's rage could have been taken out on this personal part of JonBenét's body, if I'm wrong. The hesitation to call 911 for an injured JonBenét, makes me wonder (?).

From the autopsy: Page 9 - it was classified as a birefringet foreign material

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jonbenet9.html

Edited to delete a repeat. I was copying and pasting. I have to do this if I want to check on something before I post, so I copy and paste into the clipboard, and this way, I don't lose my post. Anyone else have this trouble?
It's a hit or a miss. Better to be safe and copy and paste.

 

Like Steve Thomas, I think Patsy was up the whole night.

 

Elle, you may be right, maybe it wasn't John who caused the prior vaginal injuries, but more than one consultant with the BPD thought that the hymen had been broken before than night, maybe weeks or months, Schiller said in his book. That was part of the BPD presentation to the DA. If there was prior molestation, who did it? If it was the impetus for using the paintbrush to insert into the vagina, and I believe it was because it makes no sense for ANYONE to do that but for trying to cover up past abuse, then Patsy had to know about it, at any rate, if she wasn't the one doing the abuse. I still think there are various possibilities: Patsy, John, Patsy's father, JAR, or Burke. JMO

Any how, only got a minute now, but thought I'd bring up yet another question I have from looking at this picture, which is on the ACR website and labeled on that long page from the tab caption as JonBenet AT THE HOME, presumably when the medical examiner went there to see the body that night, but I'm thinking--maybe not.

WHAT is under the child? Two materials, and neither looks like an autopsy table. Also, notice how her arms are not straight out, either. So was she still in rigor or was it a day later when the autopsy was performed and rigor was reversiing?

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetfaceathouse.jpg

 

The Cord

KK's post above about perhaps the items coming from the laundry room - jmo but the cord could've also be kept there. Remember the pic why nut posted of the red spool type cord (I believe that was current packaging, not circa '96 tho)- looked like a laundry line type purchase that could've been be kept in that area. and those 2 end prongs too. gotta run

 

Sidebar: Please look closely at the hand in the photo
http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenethandright.jpg

Do you observe that the finger appears much larger than the ring?
Does this mean an intruder compressed the ring to create this
effect? Or is this due to post mortem bloat by the same physics
that created the cord embedded in the neck?

 

This may well have been where Det. Linda Arndt placed the body close to the tree, KK. It doesn't look like a medical table to me. I remember reading that Dr. Meyers was only in the house for ten minutes going over the body before it was removed for the autopsy.

I agree with you on the cover up deal. This had to be the biggy. Patsy Ramsey knew it wouldn't take the doctors long to put 2 and 2 together. A little six year old doesn't have damage in her vagina like that; even from vigorous cleaning as a punishment.

If Patsy's brain was working on overload that night, the only way to cover up previous damage to JonBenét's vagina was to savagely use something that would penetrate the tissue. What better than a broken end of a brush shaft. As far as using a handle I'm sure other substitutes could have been found, but this perverted act was to throw more suspicion on a sick pedophile intruder.

Psychology was running riot in her head. This cover-up of the damage to the body had to be done in such a savage way, that people would think a mother couldn't possibly have done this to her little girl. I think this was her plan.

 

As in a laundry line outside/inside the house, Cranberry? With a dryer there, I hardly think Patsy would have used a line, but she did have house help, so it's possible it could have been used in this sense (?).

 

Yes, Delmar, her little hand does look puffed up.

 

KK this url you posted for the left hand, brings up the photo of the right hand, which also looks swollen from the front view.

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenethandleft.jpg


KK, You were wondering what she was lying on (?). In this photo you can see the last four letters "oner" of coroner, on a card at the top of the photo. I also thought you could see the design of a rug that she was lying on. It's possible this was before JonBenét's body was taken away (?).

It's amazing when you think of it, these photos being on display. We don't normally see too many of these, do we, from other cases?

 

bags

It appears she has a bag on her hand to protect evidence. It does look like she is lying on a blanket or rug. She must still be in the hellhole when this picture was taken.
Her little hand does look slightly swollen but not so much that the ring is embedded nor is the cord around her wrist embedded.

 

OK, that's interesting, I didn't notice the bag on the hand.

But I was looking for a photo that might have a floor rug that matches the weave on the left of the picture, and I'll post what I've found.

In the meantime, here someone from crimeshots put both hand pictures together. I look at the ring from the back and it doesn't look like the hand is swollen to me. Rings are by nature fitting, and from the palm side, the hand is pudgy because the fingers are folded forward, it looks like to me. See what you think looking at these two pictures together.

http://crimeshots.com/hands_palms.JPG

And then there is this one, with the shot of the back/top of the hand:

http://crimeshots.com/0jonbenetring.jpeg

And finally, this is the webpage from Crimeshots that shows many autopsy pictures, so BEWARE:

http://crimeshots.com/CrimeScene1.html

 

http://crimeshots.com/BURKEJBR.jpeg

OK, let's see if that rug is similar to the one under JonBenet in the "house" shot.

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetfaceathouse.jpg

Oh, I see what you're saying about the bag over the hand. I remember reading they use brown paper bags, so that would fit. It just looks like cloth, curved and soft, doesn't it? But now I've looked closer and it certainly must be a paper bag. I see the crinkle in the paper now. Good catch, Texan.

 

Now here's ANOTHER question, and mostly why I wanted to identify whether this picture was in fact taken at the home that evening by the medical examiner: anybody besides me notice JB's arms? They're not exactly straight over her head, are they?

Is this how they were during rigor? Or not? If not, then the rigor is starting to subside, which takes some time. If the rigor is already subsiding by 8 pm, was it, then the TOD seems to me that it had to have been sometime around midnight or even before. I'll have to go back and research those rigor times again, because it's been some time since I discussed that aspect of this case, but I just don't see how the rigor could be reversing by 8 pm, reaching the arms. if she'd die later into the morning of the 26th.

I don't know. Maybe I'm tilting at windmills. All my case stuff is in boxes in storage. I thought I was over this. :headbang:

 

OK, if I haven't sent you into therapy yet, see if this will do it.

I am looking at the same picture of the back of the hand, one from ACR's and one from crimeshot, and does anyone see the purplish, jagged line across the top of the hand that looks like a bruise:

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenethandleft.jpg

http://crimeshots.com/0jonbenetring.jpeg

I know these both may be the same online source, one person saving the online copy to their own site, but just looked at both to make sure it wasn't my eyes. Or was it?

Could have been ink from the backside of the paper, I guess. But this is weird. Any ideas?

 

I have to dim my monitor because it's so bright (flat panel), and my photos don't show up as clearly as they did on my old monitor. I suffer from migraine, and I can see a glaze over her hand, but I can't see a bag, Texan, but with your medical knowledge, I believe you're right. I'll look at this one on my husband's monitor upstairs, and see if I can see the bag.

 

For me, KK, they are a bit puffed up for a little six year old.