Karr--what to say? Karr's Lawyers: Porn Case Can't Go on - No Evidence

?? irrevlevant ?? Can't they re-charge him with these images??

and yea, as BluesStrat said - is Mary Lacy going to buy John's tickets back to Thailand? I think she SHOULD!! :fishslap:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox:
How long before he shows up at the graves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heymom:
About 10 minutes after they release him.


he'll probably stop in Boulder on his way through, no?? :fishslap:

 

Oh, yeah, I forgot that there's a swingset he needs to snag!!! :did:

Heymom

 

Niner ... I believe that Sonoma HAS been looking into re-charging Karr based upon the 1600 images. But here's the rub ...

- The images in the article that you quoted are described as "pornographic images" ,,, NOT "CHILD pornography". There is a HUGE difference.

- The floppies, CDs, and Zip disk were apparently removed from Karr's OLD residence ... WITHOUT a warrant ... and permission to search the residence is being disputed.

- There is no record of "chain of custody" for the floppies, etc ... and hence, they are probably INADMISSIBLE in a court of law.

- The statute of limitations for misdemeanor offenses of this type is ONE YEAR ... and hence, new charges based upon the 1600 images may not be legal. Some dispute that the limitation applies in this instance. They argue that the "clock" stopped when Karr fled, so the statute of limitations have not yet run out.


Sonoma has screwed up BIG TIME. There is no way to even be sure (as far as we know) that the Zip disk and floppies, etc were even Karr's. They seem to have miraculously appeared.

It looks like the best hope of keeping Karr in jail is for DuhBya to declare Karr an illegal combatant and have him imprisoned without charges for the rest of his life (with NO habeous corpus rights).


...YumYum

 

images etc

much is made over the capcity of the "zip" drives to hold 1600 images.... I have some experience here as a systems engineeer in a prevoius life ( lol ).
Firstly...how big were images..?? no one knows.. as they cant be found !!.. we re they hi-res..or effectively thumbnails..or lo-res jpgs of a small to med size..??

were talking as small as 50-60 k images..or 300-500K depending on what they are.....
were they actually Zip dives ..which can be 100, 250 or 750 MB capacity...or were they in fact the slightly bigger Jazz drives..IGB 2Gb etc.....
welcome to maths 101

say a 250 zip drive..which is actually 256000 k of storage. and divide by 1600..that allows for an average image size of 160K..!! quite plausible..

If "muggins" ( karr) had trawled and downloaded form websites..esp using software that sucked whole pages...then chances are indeed high that quite a lot of images are small gifs etc.. chances also high he deleted them before saving...but maybe not..

just thought Id throw that in...in case anyone was wondering !!

 

is quite hilarious all this ..if one dimisses the henious nature of all things..

Sonoma v Boulder

Dumb v Dumber

Sonoma...hoping Boulder actually had something on Karr... and might extract a plea deal without resortig to trial..and the revelation of teh non existant evidence..

Boulder hoping Sonoma had a back up charge to lay on Karr so as not to look the prize bunch of wally's that they are..

Both all in on the river card...with zilch in the hand !!
these people are seriously DUMB !!

 

Good info, Kanga ...

... I would just point out that the Zip disk is from before April 2001. I would bet BobC's left nut that Zip drives larger than 100 megs were not available back then. And WRITABLE CDs were likely very rare or even unavailable at that time.

... and I would add that most PCs back then had comparatively small harddrives, small memory capacity, modems were slow, etc ... and images back then were therefore relatively low-res. Five years is EONS ago in this area.


...YumYum

 

zip and jazz been around quite a whiles actually....cant put exact dates on this..the ol grey matter has its moments.. Jazz definitley last century ( lol..sounds funny hey )..and 250 mb definitely before 2000 (1997 rings a bell) ...cant say ever used the 750 variety..as we all burnt cd's..they also been around a lot longer than many think..

actually cd technology is Philips and goes way back to the late 60's early 70's as defence hardware...but thats a whole other story...I digress.

Anyone who has a good reason for large storage will have had the latest and greatest at any time interval !!

 

You are right, Kanga ... I went to Wikipedia to see when Zips were introduced and was AMAZED to see that they were introduced in 1994!!! The page didn't mention when the 250 meg and above were introduced, but ya gotta figure that it was well before 2001.

Here's the Wiki url:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_drive

Whew! I sure am glad no one took me up on my bet. That was a close shave, BobC! I'll be more careful in the future.

One for moi ... :rs:


...YumYum

 

am sure BobC is breathing relieved again !!! lol

nice to know the grey matter still functioning ( in a manner )

time flies huh!!! pmsl !!! hehehe

 

Well, we don't really know what kind of equipment Karr had. Guess we'll have to wait to hear...or not hear...the details. It's a toss up, either way. And thanks a million, Kanga, I was hoping to get this info out of someone. Having a diverse group is good. :thumbsup:

Did anyone but me think that Karr told the detective HIS WIFE would know about the computer being taken? HELLO? That would be THEIR COMPUTER....

I can see a good "reasonable doubt" defense right there....

How can they argue the statute of limitations didn't run out because Karr skipped town? LE had those images ALL THAT TIME. As we see, coming back and saying oh, we found MORE IMAGES NOW leaves a LOT of questions open. There's been a bitter divorce, as well. The reason for a statute of limitations on some crimes is because it's an undue burden on the accused to show a defense and the prosecutor to try to make a case that's old. Plus there are just so many hours in a day, week, year. Crime marches on. So a line is drawn.

I guess my question is this: why didn't they find those images and charge for them BACK THEN? John Karr's fugitive status came SIX MONTHS after he was first charged and arrested. He would have gone to trial sooner had his lawyer NOT tried to argue to get the evidence thrown out on illegal search and seizure. So either these images were quite bad, or Karr was loathe to lose his job teaching children and fought it no matter what.

I don't know what they have found, what they have manufactured, nor what the law is regarding these "new found" images, but YY is right, this is stinking something awful.

And as much as I do not like John Karr on so many levels, I won't even GET STARTED, I still believe we have to TRY to maintain some appearance of attempting to uphold BLIND JUSTICE, all the incompetence and lame investigations notwithstanding....

Lady Justice in Boulder and Sonoma County ---->>>> :fight:

 

Prosecutors Claim to have FOUND the Missing Data ...

This just in from AP ,,, Prosecutors Claim to have FOUND the Missing Data ...

Here's a URL and an article ... not much more infor yet:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KARR_CHILD_PORN?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US


****************************************************

Sep 29, 3:25 PM EDT

Prosecutor: Lost Karr Child Porn Found

By KIM CURTIS
Associated Press Writer

U.S. Video
Advertisement


SANTA ROSA, Calif. (AP) -- Investigators found a version of lost computer data containing child pornography evidence against former JonBenet Ramsey suspect John Mark Karr, a prosecutor said Friday.

"A late-breaking development," Judge Cerena Wong said at the start of a hearing on whether five misdemeanor counts dating from 2001 should be dismissed against Karr.

The find of computer data, announced by Sonoma County prosecutor Joann Risse, came two days after Risse had said that Karr's computer hard drive and a copy of the contents were missing. Earlier, the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department had said they lost Karr's computer.

Defense lawyer Gayle Gutekunst had told the judge Wednesday that she has no way to properly defend Karr nor would prosecutors be able to make a case against him because "the crime scene is gone."



Karr was not required to be in court and was absent from the hearing.

The 41-year-old former schoolteacher was arrested in Thailand last month after suggesting he killed JonBenet, a 6-year-old beauty queen, in her Boulder, Colo., home in 1996. He was returned to the U.S., but the Ramsey case quickly collapsed after DNA failed to connect him to the crime.

Karr had been arrested in California in 2001 on five misdemeanor counts of possession of child pornography. Three hard drives, a laptop computer, diskettes and a zip drive were seized from Karr's home at the time of the arrest. He fled before the trial.

When he was returned to California from Colorado, Karr rejected a plea deal that would have allowed him to walk out of jail free if he agreed to plead guilty to two of the five charges, serve three years of probation and register as a sex offender.


He is being held on $200,000 bail because he is considered a flight risk.

Investigators testified earlier this week that they've discovered more child pornography on 100 diskettes, CDs and a removable disk drive taken from Karr in 2001. But Wong said the testimony was irrelevant because Karr has not been charged with any crime in connection with those images.

****************************************************


...YumYum

 

The hearing is apparently in session as we speak, The "version" is said to be a "mirror image" of the data that was on the harddrive. Who knows what the phuk that is?!

Sounds like a stalling tactic by the DA. The data is suspect without the actual harddrive and may not be admissible (my guess) ... but finding the new data suggests that there may still be hope that the HD may yet be found ... and I'm guessing that the DA will argue against dismissal in the HOPE of finding the harddrive in the near future.

What? Me skeptical?!


BTW ... Google News seems to be on top of the hap'nins. Go here:

http://news.google.com/news?q=karr&...-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&tab=wn



...YumYum

...YumYum

 

Well, just in the nick of time!

Now, is the prosecutor going to TELL the court where these "lost images/computer/hard drive" happened to be when there is already testimony that they were LOST and furiously being searched for by numerous evidence room employees FOR A MONTH, all to NO AVAIL?

I'm sorry. I have just gotten too cynical for my own good, haven't I?

But I'm thinking...SOMEONE now has shown up and said...heh...oh...THOSE images...THAT computer hard drive...I HAVE IT! I accidently took it _______ and forgot ALL ABOUT IT! Then I just HAPPENED to find it YESTERDAY, lying under a pile of case files, in my _______! JUST IN TIME! My bad!

Gosh, I must have gone to sleep under a tree and awakened 20 years later in NAZI AMERICA. Because I want INFORMATION that the Sonoma County prosecutors and/or judge and/or news reporters just don't want the public to know in the very strange case of John Mark Karr.

I sure hope we get this information soon, because I am thinking, I am thinking all wrong about this. I should be pulling FOR Sonoma County in prosecuting John Mark Karr. Why aren't I?

This is just getting too creepy for me.

 

I agree, KK ... I wanna be pulling for Sonoma County ... but the stink in the air just keeps swirlin' around and it's makin' me dizzy.

Look ... all I want is a little JUSTICE! Is that too phukkin' much to ask?!


...YumYum

 

Thanks for finding this for us, Yum.

I thought they had a "mirror image" of the hard drive back on Monday? Then they said on Wednesday that they had NOTHING and NO COPIES, EITHER.

Or at least, that's ONE VERSION of the VERSION of whatever they say they have/had/have....

And we thought that Boulder couldn't be trumped in the WORST DA OFFICE IN AMERCIA contest.... :spit:

 

Apparently, it is.

Welcome to Third World justice in America.

 

Well, it just gets WORSER AND WORSER....

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/15640545.htm

 

"The copy was never booked as evidence, but was used as an "investigative tool" in at least two other cases, he said."

So can they prove the images didn't come from the two other cases?

What is wrong with this Judge? Isn't the Judge supposed to make sure the accused gets a fair trial? Does this whole circus seem fair to anyone? If this thing wasn't a national media event, any Judge would have tossed it days ago.

 

Agreed, BlueS. That's why I'm a bit worried about justice here. I know in the many years I've researched the Ramsey case, I have read and written many things, in the context of discussing the case, that taken out of context might seem extreme. I have also clicked on some links that ended up at porn sites, like the one someone put on CS's front page not long ago. I've googled up S&M sites, looking for the garrote source in possible erotic strangulation techniques...all kinds of crazy stuff I have no personal interest in, but which I truly was checking as an armchair detective.

What if that's what Karr had on HIS computer. We all KNOW jams viewed child porn. She posted about it many times. Her poster Bluefire was so into this, we still speculate that he was a pedophile himself. He lived in S. America, though, so I guess he didn't have to worry about the law. Many warned jams she was pushing it, though. However, JAMS handed those child porn images TO THE BPD, along with innuendoes that it was the Pughs' child in the pictures, along with Merv Pugh. She was 100% WRONG, of course, but instead of arresting jams, they investigated THE PUGHS.

See what I mean?

So I have to ask myself, just what were the pictures they got off of Karr's computer, where did they come from? Did he delete them and they were only on his hard drive because most of us have no idea how to delete things other than hitting the delete button?

Or is he guilty of possession of child porn, no matter how he got the pics? Is prosecution selective? Does he deserve MORE than the six months he's already spent in jail WITHOUT A TRIAL? Is he a child predator? Those are the questions we don't know the answers to here.

Karr certainly brought the JonBenet media attention on himself, IMO, and conspiring to subvert the law in a child murder for whatever reason is worthy of everything he's gotten in that respect. But to see a prosecutor, judge, and detectives behaving the way they are in Sonoma County is NOT WORTH the fallout of tainting their reputations and questionable execution of the law, IMO, to get John Karr on a sex offender registry, especially if his possession of those pictures is already beyond proving in court as a crime.

JMO