"Lake" - former Justice Watch poster

BobC,
You might consider that part of the reasoning for staging the whole crime was to convince Burke that whatever he did to her that night didn't matter, she was OK after his assault, and some big bad intruder took her away later in the night. Part of the reason the ransom note was written was to convince Burke someone else killed her, not him.

If Burke was involved, there is no doubt that he has been completely brainwashed into believing the intruder fantasy.

 

BS,
How in the world could a child of Burke's age go to the White's on the morning of Dec. 26th and not talk about things, if in fact he knew/saw something? The Ram's didn't have enough time that morning to brainwash him before he went to the White's...did they?

 

Blue--I think that's a huge stretch.

John Ramsey would never EVER let that kid go off on his own if he were harboring this enormous secret. No way.

 

You got that right BobC.

 

Maybe what was said was just "I will kill you if you say a word to anyone about this." Doesn't take that long, especially if the person saying it already has credibility about being able to take a life.

Heymom

 

Heymom,
That's certainly something to be considered. If we only knew what-if anything-Burke told the White's that day.

 

I hope someday we will know. I hope the Whites don't carry the secrets to their graves. Things can happen, you know. Man doesn't know the days appointed to him.

Heymom

 

I don't think so, T. John Ramsey isn't Hannibal Lector--he'd never threaten Burke. He loves Burke!

I think Burke was sent away that morning because he didn't know anything, and JR wanted time to think and plan. What was astounding about sending Burke away without a police escort was the fact that John Ramsey obviously knew Burke was in no danger from the "foriegn faction."

 

That's right, Bob. While Patsy was admonishing others to hold their babies tight, she and her spouse had no problem sending their young son to the Whites, whom they later threw under the bus with several other acquaintances and friends.

That's because they knew the only foreign faction members in Boulder were the voices in mame's head.

 

Speaking of the Whites, what prompted Fleet White to urge the governor to appoint a special prosecutor? Was it the Ramseys going on CNN instead of talking to law enforcement, or did Fleet consider it suspicious that John found the body, when Fleet himself had looked into the room and not seen it? From reading Fleet White's letter, it sure seems to me he considers the Rs - or at least one of them - responsible for JonBenet's death.

 

Let's hope she does us all a favor and joins a foriegn faction, preferably on the other side of the world. I hear Iran has some openings

 

Snort. :rolling: :rolling: :rotfl:

Here's mame reporting for duty: :mame:

 

I have always thought the Ramseys wanted Burke out of the house because they KNEW that JonBenet's body was in the basement and when and who would find her were still up in the air. That's why they didn't get Burke out of his bed that morning, IMO. What if HE went running around the house and found her? What was it going to be like to have HIM sitting there awake when LE found the body, which is exactly what ANYONE IN THE WORLD would expect to have happened soon after they got there.

That's also why I think they called over the Whites and Fernies. To take Burke away when all hell broke loose, when LE found the body.

When it didn't happen, they still had to get Burke out of the house, because now they were on to plan B: sitting in the sunroom, waiting for a call that would never come, waiting for someone to figure out the body was in the basement. Didn't look like that was going to happen at all. By the time Arndt pulled her boner, I'm sure John Ramsey had racked his brain about a hundred horrible scenarios now unfolding: nobody was looking for the body at all; the big kids were on their way, and they might wander around and find the body; what if nobody found her until the next day or two, when she had begun to rot and smell enough to lead them to her? Would he and Patsy be able to hang on that long before one of them cracked?

OH, I'm sure there is a reason Patsy called the Boulder home the hellhole. The Ramseys went through many levels of hell that night and day in that house, IMO. Of their own making, IMO.

 

I think you're probably right, Kold.

 

Tylin,
The Rams had all night to start the brainwashing process. Several hours of telling a kid he can't talk about something is plenty of time - and even then Burke eventually made the mistake of telling the BPD that JB was awake and walked in when they got home.

I think when Burke was questioned at the Whites house the questions were all about the kidnapping and if he heard anything. Since the body hadn't been found yet, there would have been no reason to be asking Burke if he got into an argument with her or hurt her in any way. The cops had their opportunity, but asked all the wrong questions.

 

You know this means that John was in on the fix, at any rate, if true. Otherwise, why wouldn't John have awakened Burke to ask if he heard/saw anything? Why would John have left Burke alone in his room, unprotected, in that huge house before he could possibly have known if the kidnappers were positively not still in the home?

It won't wash. You awake to find "A FOREIGN TERRORIST FACTION" has broken into your 4 FLOORS OF A RAMBLING home, has your daughter, and left a threat to kill her, you would not just ASSUME that they were no longer there. You don't KNOW what's going on, who they are, nor exactly which is up or down. You PROTECT YOUR FAMILY FIRST.

Not John. Not Patsy. Let Burke sleep while we "run around" and read the note more closely on another level of the maze. On the floor. On his knees. And call 911 and HANG UP!

Think about it. You know SOME STRANGERS have broken into your home...AND YOU GET LE ON THE PHONE ON 911...YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO HAS DONE THIS, WHERE THEY ARE, BUT YOU KNOW THEY ARE THREATENING YOUR CHILD...YOU AND YOUR OTHER CHILD AND SPOUSE ARE STILL IN THE HOME IN DANGER...YOU DO NOT HANG UP ON LE! That's your lifeline. What if they bust back in? What if it's a deranged maniac still hiding in the home? YOU DO NOT KNOW!

That young woman whose 2 year old son is missing, the one who committed suicide? They played HER 911 call today. Guess what? Another strange 911 call. In the midst of telling the dispatcher her child had been kidnapped...she inserts the following: "I had put him to bed before I called anyone over." What did she mean? She had TWO MEN come over to her house and watch a movie BEFORE she "went to check on her son and found him missing."

She's calling to report her baby has been kidnapped...and she THINKS to tell the dispatcher SHE HAD PUT HIM TO SLEEP BEFORE SHE CALLED THE MEN OVER. Why would she do that? Because she's creating HER ALIBI. No other reason. It doesn't even make sense unless you KNOW she had two men over to watch a movie. She's already trying to explain why THE TWO MEN NEVER SAW HER SON IN THE HOUSE.

In the Nancy Grace show where the young mother called in and talked to Nancy, before the mother then wrote out several suicide notes and killed herself, Nancy had commentators from LE, a forensic psychiatrist, etc., on as well. Nancy kept asking the young woman if she had taken a polygraph, and the woman kept avoiding the question. This is what Nancy was so criticized for doing when the woman killed herself.

That aside, my point is this: a LE officer on that show immediately said that in all his years in LE investigating murders, only two people had ever refused to take a polygraph. He said almost all those close to the victim are eager to clear themselves so LE can move on to find the perp. He said the only two who refused...ended up being guilty of the crime.

I'm off topic here, I know, but I'm ranting because the Ramseys did every single thing a guilty person does. The 911 call was loaded with clues that it was staged as well. You do NOT hang up on LE when your family is under attack from an unknown, violent source. You do not leave your child unprotected when your family is under attack from an unknown, violent source. And YOU DO NOT HANG UP ON LE when your family is under attack and unprotected! You do not refuse to take a polygraph, refuse to talk to LE, when your family is under attack and your child has been murdered in your own home BY AN INTRUDER.

When you do all of those things, you are darn sure going to look guilty as sin. That's not the fault of BORG, not the fault of LE, not the fault of even an INTRUDER. That's the fault of THE RAMSEYS.

So whatever Burke has to live with, he can blame on his parents. If he knows SOMETHING, he's learned to live with it for now. If his parents have taught him THEIR values, he'll keep his secrets to the grave, no matter how many innocent people have to pay for it.

Well, that's my opinion, anyhow.

 

JR very well could have been in on the staging. It's one of the big mysteries.

 

Was this woman's name "Darlie", and did she also tell the 911 Operator, "Oops...sorry, I picked up the knife and ruined any fingerprints..." :behind:

 

I disagree. I don't think 6-10 hours was enough to be absolutely certain that Burke wouldn't say anything. Children talk. No matter what you say, how much you warn them, they still blurt things out (usually at the most inconvinient times). I simply don't think JR would've taken the risk in letting him out of his sight if he knew anything critical.

I definitely think KK is on to something there: JR and Patsy were probably afraid Burke would find the body and destroy the illusion of a kidnapping before the police got there. I don't think they wanted to be the ones to "discover" the body. They wanted someone else to find JB so that they could put on their surprised faces and play the grief card in front of witnesses.

JMO

 

We know Patsy was involved, because she wrote the Ransom note.
IMO John had to have been involved in some way (at least with the cover-up) because its the only way to explain his behaviour. No tears. No determination. JR wasn't banging on LE's doors begging for info. JR hired top notch lawyers the day of the murder and ran away from the scene of the crime. He refused to take an FBI administered polygraph, both he and Patsy refused to be interviewed separately. Imposed restrictions and limited law enforcement's ability to question himself and his wife. Displayed hostility during interviews. Never even called his own mercenary experts to ask them about their "findings". He completely disregarded the instructions in the Ransom note.

He had to have known, there's no other explanation for that kind of behaviour and amazing lack of curiosity.