Mark Fuhrman's "The Murder Business"

Well, that explains why I've seen the fibers described as black and sometimes as dark blue. Was the robe collected or was that one of the items Pam took out of the house? (Hard to imagine the police allowing that.)

That would be sloppy of John to leave those fibers on his daughter, especially from two items of clothing. I think the police suspect that Patsy wiped JonBenet with the wool shirt to incriminate John. They left John with that to chew on, anyway.

 

Detective Mike Everett DID allow it, and with Pam wearing a Boulder Police jacket. Someone higher up the chain (LE or DA) apparently approved Pam's raid on the house. If you look at the inadequate and general inventory of what was taken, "bathrobes" is one of the items listed.


From JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas, paperback edition -

Page 56:

Patrol Officer Angie Chromiak told me later that when she showed up to pull a security shift at Tin Cup Circle, she was ordered by police headquarters to ferry Pam Paugh over to Fifteenth Street to collect some clothing that John, Patsy, and Burke Ramsey could wear to the funeral. Even that decision, as kind as it might have been to grieving parents, was questionable, for nothing should be removed from an active crime scene.

Page 57:

To disguise her identity from media, Pam donned a Boulder Police jacket, complete with badge and patches .... Then she headed into the house, accompanied by Detective Mike Everett. She spent an hour on her first trip through the crime scene and emerged with a big cardboard box filled to the brim, which she plopped into the trunk of the police car. For the next several hours, Pam made half a dozen trips through the house, often spending an hour or more inside, and hauled out suitcases, boxes, bags and loose items until the backseat of the police car was stuffed like a steamer trunk.

Like me, the patrol officer understood how far out of the ordinary the visit was. "Are you checking all this? It's way more than just funeral clothes," Chromiak asked Detective Everett. "You don't worry about it," Everett replied.

Pam's last trip was into the bedroom of JonBenet, and she pumped herself up again; "I can do this, I can do this, I can do this." She came back carrying an armload of stuffed animals and other items from the first room in the house to have been sealed off by police.

Everett kept only a general inventory of what was removed, and even that abbreviated listing was astonishing. Stuffed animals, tiaras, three dresses for JonBenet, pageant photo portfolios, toys and clothes for Burke, John Ramsey's Daytime, the desk Bible, and clothing. For Patsy, there were black pants, dress suits, boots, and the contents of the curio cabinet. Bills, credit cards, a black cashmere trench coat, jewelry that included her grandmother's ring and an emerald necklace, bathrobes, a cell phone, personal papers, bank records, Christmas stockings, her Nordstrom's credit card, and even their passports. The patrol car was loaded with zipped bags, boxes, sacks, and luggage, the true contents unknown.

 

Cherokee et al,

Every time I read that list I get angry and believe that the case possibly could have been solved up to that point. But from then on, YIKES, no way. So many mistakes by so many folkes. Again, YIKES!

 

Every time I go over this nightmare of Pam Paugh making this illegal raid, Cherokee, I wonder if this detective could still be charged for having condoned it(?).

 

Yeah, I've read that. Why is it thought (at least by some) that the dark blue fibers match the bathrobe? I don't remember reading that the Ramseys turned over any bathrobes.

 

From what I've been reading, it seems like the question of these fibers is a vexed one. I hesitate to use Perfect Murder Perfect Town as a source, but this is what it has to say:

"Earlier in the case, the police had thought the fibers from the body came from John Ramsey’s bathrobe or Patsy’s black pants or from the blanket found near JonBenét or from the blanket that had been found inside the suitcase under the broken basement window. The fibers might also have come from JonBenét’s own clothes or from one of her stuffed animals. By now, however, all of those possibilities had been excluded, and the only logical explanation was that the fibers came from whatever had been used to wipe JonBenét or possibly from someone who might have rubbed up against her when she was unclothed, which allowed fibers to find their way along her skin and eventually into the folds of her labia. In any event, the clothes worn by Patsy and John on Christmas would have to be compared with the fibers" p. 562

I know that a distinction is being made on this thread about cotton fibers on the body vs. wool fibers in the underwear, but it's not clear to me that these are actually different fibers. It seems possible that John's shirt was a wool blend rather than pure wool. And the police never ask John about his robe in his interviews, only his shirt.

 

And who is to say that the shirt that John EVENTUALLY turned over to the police is the same shirt he wore that night?

 

Whenever he wore it, Levin claims it's a match in John's 2000 interview.

I don't think John turned it over, though. He was kind of shifty about how the shirt came back into the possession of Team Ramsey, but if I'm recalling correctly, it was actually turned over by Ellis Armistead.

 

JR's shirt was found to be a match to the fibers found in the crotch of the panties. When told this in one of the interviews, he becomes very angry and of course, "too indignant" to answer. I agree that I don't believe he was ever asked about the bathrobe fibers. Under forensic analysis, the fibers can be identified as being cotton or wool or wool blend. I still think there were two separate dark fibers found- the wool from JR's shirt, and the fibers that may have been from his bathrobe. I would hope that fiber evidence was matched against any clothing the victim herself may have been wearing, but in this case you just can't assume the proper procedures were followed.

 

Yeah, I don't know. I know that the police never got Patsy's fur boots to check against the beaver hair found at the crime scene. Damn shame.

 

Let's just face it...like we haven't for 12+ years....

The Ramseys had some kind of help very early in this case, if not before they called 911. (I believe they had help before they called 911.)

Notice Aunt Pam also obsconded with a cell phone. Alex Hunter handed the Ramseys all the obstruction they needed to keep the BPD from arresting the Ramseys, as well. Not one person has EVER been able to explain to me with any kind of rational, ingenuous reasoning, why the Ramseys' home and cell phone records weren't in the BPD within days of the murder. No one has EVER been able to argue convincingly that Aunt Pam loaded up that police car without hauling off valuable evidence.

The fix was in Day One. The BPD was sent on a snipe hunt, and Hunter was in on the joke.

Only I'm not laughing. Bastid.

 

Here you go. See if this doesn't explain EXACTLY what Alex Hunter and his partners in crime did to the BPD:

The "ID10T" is perfect, right? (IDI--ot?) :floor:

 

The fact that the Ramseys weren't asked for the clothes they were wearing that night until a year later, that fact alone tells you something was up. It's amazing LE got anything of evidentiary value at all. (I think it was the Ramsey investigators or the Ramsey attorneys who forked them over.)

Has anything like this happened anywhere else in the country anytime? Maybe in the deep south during the Civil Rights era? That's the book I'd like to read, the one that tells me just how -eyed and screwed up this thing was and who screwed it up and why.

 

Yes, this pineapple item is one of those things that show how hard it is to commit a perfect crime. Patsy couldn't come out and say: "Well, yea, I set that bowl of pineapple out." This would cast too much doubt on the story that JBR was taken straight to bed. So just play ignorant about it so Smit and the DA's office could surmise that maybe, just maybe, the intruder got it out. Yea right.

 

Got to agree with you here, kk. This investigation was hijacked by the DA's office from the git go. What about this detective who chided the police officer for objecting to Pam's raid on that house? He sounds like he was there to make sure Pam got anything she wanted out of that house.

 

That's a dead ringer, kk. What gets me is how Hunter would comment to LE that he thought Patsy was probably involved. But then he would obstruct their effort every chance he could get. Throw em a crumb and then hide the loaf.

 

Maybe this robe was used instead of a towel to dry JonBenét after her body was washed DeeDee (?).

 

First, let me say that I know that "absconded" is spelled with an "a" and not the way I spelled it in my post above! :yes: I just didn't remember on the day I posted. In fact, I've learned that now I can't correctly spell different words on different days, but I can spell them right on other days, apparently. Even more curious, on some days correctly spelled words look to me as if I'd never seen them spelled like that before.... I think the spell check in my brain has a malfunction.... ::shocked2

But I digress....

 

I'm sure plenty of things like this have happened in the South...the North...the East and the West. They just didn't have 24/7 news on TV.

I think Thomas' book is the closest thing we're ever going to get to that book you want to read. His book, to me, was in fact mostly about how Hunter blew up the investigation into this case.

But little tidbits do leak out, even as recently as when the "touch" DNA public relations gift from Lacy to the Ramseys hit the airwaves. It was missed by everyone but us, in fact, and I didn't see it until much later myself, because it was so buried in Lacy's Team Ramsey PR blitz. But rereading the transcript of the NGrace program about that, there it was: One time Ramsey PI San Agustin told the world on Nancy Grace's show that he and Ollie were hired by Hunter and worked with Smit in the DA's office on this case. Who knew that? I sure didn't, but that's THREE DETECTIVES HIRED BY HUNTER TO PERPETUATE THE INTRUDER THEORY. And every single one of them ended up on Team Ramsey after that. They had seen all the evidence. They had access to all the BPD's investigation files. And they go on TV every single chance they get to shill for the Ramseys. (It's priceless publicity for their careers/business they couldn't possibly afford otherwise.)

Just think about that. It was Hunter. ALL ALONG. So WHY? WHO coerced Hunter to betray his job, his oath, the People, AND JONBENET? What did it cost?

For anyone reading who hasn't seen this discussed in detail, complete with excerpts from transcripts documenting the many lies told by Team Ramsey about working "pro bono" for them, here is a short thread on it: http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9697

 

I just read that excerpt and San Agustin and Gray say they were brought in by Eller before going over to Hunter. If true, that weakens your argument a bit.

And it's the first I've ever heard of it. I'm astonished that Thomas doesn't mention it.