McCann Case Still Unsolved?

Re Interpreting the alerts of Cadaver dogs:-

Jersey Childrens Home Abuse Enquiry

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/jersey/7534474.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/jersey/7534474.stm

BUT

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/jersey/7723860.stm

And who was this sniffer dog? Link

(Yes it was Eddie - the cadaver dog who alerted to human remains in the McCanns case).

 

Both. First the cadaver dog and the the blood dog.

 

But the dogs did find something in the McCann case, didn't they?
Only the DNA material collected from the floor tiles behind the sofa was was scant, incomplete and therefore inconclusive.

 

Is it true that Gerry originally said he went in and saw the twins asleep, did not see Madeleine and that he thought she had wandered into her parents' bedroom? And that a few weeks later he changed his story, claiming he saw all three children and thought how lucky he was too have them?
I just read this on another forum and would like to get more info to help clear this up.

 

March 31, 2009, 11:47 am Tue Mar 31 11:47:57 CDT 2009

The quote you posted is not from me. I did not post anything about the dogs except to comment on the sniffer dog video with the cars.

 

I'm not following you here Rash. They didn't find evidence of Madeleine having been murdered any more than they found evidence of murdered children at the Jersey Children's home.

This backs up what I've been saying all along - that a dog alert is not evidence. They have to find the evidence.

It's like someone saying that a metal detector beep is proof of gold.

 

Are you asking if it's true that he said this or if it's true a tabloid printed it?

 

I'm not saying it was evidence of Madeleine being murdered. I'm saying that indeed at the location where both the cadaver dog and the blood dog alerted in the apartment (behind the sofa), there could be material collected, but the DNA proved to be too scant to obtain a profile.
My point was the dogs did not find nothing (i.e. made a false alert), but that threre WAS something where they alerted in the apartment. Whether the DNA was from Madeleine or not could not be determined.

Since I don't know the source if the info, if it is in a tabloid, then I'm asking if there exists an official source to corroborate it.

 

Yes but if you read the BBC stories about Eddie the Cadaver dog's work in Jersy, you will see that he alerted at 26 points and all they recovered were hundreds of animal bones, 2 ancient human bones and a coconut shell!

Well I'll hazard an educated guess. If it was a tabloid report then no, it will not have official corroboration.

 

It was a quote from Moab - sorry about the mistake.

 

If the DNA material recovered from behind the sofa had been from an animal, no doubt this info would have found its way into the public.

Guess is fine, but how can we get certainty?

 

I'm touched by this great, deeply moving post of yours, Little. You have a wonderful way of putting thoughts and feelings into words.

 

I thought it was inconclusive/too weak?

Certainty about what? That Gerry said it or that a tabloid guessed it?

I actually think that you are getting confused about a statement Gerry McCann was quoted on more recently about a door being open when he was in the apartment for his check. I seem to recall that he'd put it down to Madeleine having gone to the toilet but afterwards wondered if the abductor was already in the apartment. One of these things we don't pay particular attention to at the time, but which we later think about.

As far as I am aware, Gerry always said he saw Madeleine asleep on his check.

ETA - it wasn't a direct statement but a "friend of the family" quote:-

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/madeleinemccann/Gerry-McCann-came-close-to.3329263.jp

 

Yes, VanZandt is a profiler, who also answers people's questions on this site:

http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_...r-look?last=1233879423&threadId=490888#last_1

 

It was, but wouldn't they be able to say (even with only a scant sample) whether DNA is human or animal DNA?

 

My theory

This is what I think happened to Madeleine.

I think she was kidnapped by someone who was aware that holidaymakers at the resort were inclined to put the children to bed and then go and eat at the restaurant.

It isn't easy to snatch a child of that age because they are usually with a parent or responsible adult. Taking a child from its own home is risky because a child of that age is rarely left alone in the house and certainly not on a regular basis such that a pattern could be established. Also, private residences often have alarm systems or family pets. A stranger would also stand out in a residential area.

The holiday apartments are basic. There wouldn't be family pets or a burglar alarm. Not just that - the neighbours wouldn't have dogs either and they wouldn't report a srange face. The abductor could easily walk around the apartments and familiarise himself with layouts and habits without drawing attention to himself. Resorts are full of transient holidaymakers who stay for a week or a few days and then disappear.

The McCann apartment was secluded at the back and afforded a great deal of privacy for anyone who wanted to hide and wait for their "big moment". The rear of the apartment is enclosed by a wall and mature trees. Not only that, but there is a smaller wall closer to the apartment which would provide additional protection from any passers-by. The rear of the apartment also faces onto the road and would provide an easy escape route by car.

I think the kidnap was planned. I don't think Madeleine was specifically singled out from the perspective of being Madeleine McCann, but I think she may have fitted the bill of being the right age, sex and living in a convenient apartment. I think she was "acquired". I also think the abductor may have been watching and waiting for the right moment for a few weeks. There were reports of a man hanging around and an attempted break during the days and weeks before Madeleine's abduction.

It was well known that British and Dutch holidaymakers were inclined to use Baby Listening services so that the parents could eat or drink in the bar. I think the abductor saw that as providing an ideal opportunity to take a child.

So, if someone wanted a child to use for whatever purpose, this would provide an ideal and comparatively low risk opportunity to acquire one.

I think the abductor watched to see who was coming and going and that he entered the apartment and was out again in a flash. I don't think she died in the apartment although she may have been quietened in some way in case she wakened and started screaming.

I think if we hadn't been reading about Madeleine McCann, we would have been reading about some other child.

I don't think this is beyond the realms of possibility. I don't know whether her abductor is also her captor or whether she was abducted "to order".

I also think it's entirely possible that the abductor had a key. Plenty of people had access to keys:-

• cleaners
• previous occupants
• maintenance staff

These apartments often have master keys too. I'd be looking at people who had access to keys. I'd also be wanting to see any cctv footage during the previous weeks.

I know there was an appeal for holiday photos taken by people who had been at the resort during the weeks prior to the abduction. I don't know if this was done or if they were studied to look for the same man or woman appearing in photos taken during different weeks. I do think it's possible the abductor was a woman. I wouldn't ignore Jane Tanner's eye-witness testmony, but I wouldn't exclude everything else on the basis of it either.

I think it's likely that her abductor or a person who facilitated the abduction has a connection with Praia da Luz. Not necessarily a local, but perhaps someone who worked there temporarily.

Is she alive?

I don't think she was murdered straight away. I don't discount the possibility that she may have been murdered later and I worry that her coloboma would have been the reason for that - too easily identifiable. I think she was abducted either for purposes of abuse or adoption. If it were the latter, her coloboma would make her too "hot". However, sick and perverse though it may be, we know there are people who keep human captives for their own sick pleasures and that some of them manage to do this successfully for decades (Fritzl & others). I've personally heard of about five such cases in the last couple of years. Therefore, it is entirely possible that Madeleine is being held captive in a house somewhere and that she may be discovered some day through pure chance as some of the other captives were. When you think about it, when we hear about Shannon Matthews, Fritzl's daughter was still being held captive so to was this latest Italian one. How many others? Maybe more than we think.

I think this is what her parents are working on. They need people to believe she may be alive and to be vigilant. Who knows what secrets your neighbours are keeping? Madeleine's abductor may be a kidnapper and even a paedophile, but he may not be a murderer. Had it not been for her eye, her changing appearance as she grew would make her increasingly harder to identify, therefore, her captor would have two options - kill her or hide her and if he's not a murderer, he would take steps to do the latter.

When news of Fritzl broke, some of the neighbours were shocked but for others, some things started to make sense. That's what we need to think about. Madeleine could be anywhere in the world by now. If her abductor took her by car, she could have been at a marina before her parents could raise the alarm and in Africa the following day - sooner if a powerboat were used. If the person who "ordered" her has money, she could even have been taken by yacht to America.

If people are convinced that Madeleine was killed by her parents, they won't be looking for her as a potential captive. How awful would that be? Someone sees something suspicious but they think "Nah, can't be anything to do with Madeleine McCann - she was killed by her parents." and they dismiss it.

That is what I feel. I know it's jumbled and I apologise for that, but it's a brainstorm of what I think happened.

 

Kept captive - found alive

Danielle Cramer - 1 year
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_11768.aspx


Elisabeth Fritzl & her children - 25 years
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/04/28/austria.cellar/index.html


Laura Mongelli - 25 years? (Still under investigation)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...own-to-police-and-social-workers-1656647.html


Elizabeth Smart - 9 months
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart


Shannon Matthews - 24 days
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jan/23/shannon-matthews-mother-jail


Shawn Hornbeck 4+ years
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/124895/kidnapped_children_found_alive_and.html


Natasha Kampusch - 8 years
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=92265


Ursula Herrmann - 27 years
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...d-and-imprisoned-schoolgirl-27-years-ago.html

Carol Smith - 7 years
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/sex_slave/index.html

In quite a few of these cases, it was a vigilant member of the public who contacted the police and thus saved the victim.

 

There is another theory, that Madeleine wakened up and wandered off in search of her parents and that she was snatched by someone opportunistically.

Do I think it's possible? Yes I do think this is feasible. However, I also think it would be more likely that she would be killled in this scenario because it would mean the snatching was unplanned and that the abductor would be unprepared. I think in this case, it is more likely that she would be abused, killed and dumped within a short period of time.

However, I think is is less likely that she wandered off because I think she'd find it difficult to open a door and I think there would be more chance that other people would notice a small child wandering the streets in her pjs. It would be terribly unlucky if the only person she encountered was a child abductor/killer.

I think that there is a good chance she is still alive if her abduction was a carefully planned "hit".

Another possibility is that whomever took her intended burglary and opportunistically took the child instead. There is some belief that David Westerfield may not have entered the vanDam home with the express intention of taking Danielle.

If criminals can plan burglaries, watch the homes to monitor the movements of the occupants and target vulnerable houses - i.e. no pets, secluded back gardens, discernible routine of occupants ... why not a child abductor?

 

Ursula Herrmann was not found alive, but died hours after her abduction from oxygen deprivation; the abductor had put her in a wooden box with a defective ventilation system.