Michael Tracey. Hypocrisy Doesn't Begin to Describe this Arrogant A$$

Could this be the infamous Captain Hook? Great post Peggy, I wish I had your mind.

Thanks, Elle, for posting that info from Steve's book. I wasn't home to look for it. Another thing I'm always struck by is just how polite and tidy that intruder was. Leaving so little of himself behind for sweeping/cleaning up; putting the pen back in the holder so nicely; and so very considerate to latch that door in the basement. And didn't he also close JonBenet's door behind him as well? Probably while trying to carry her kicking and screaming out the door. Nice, neat, polite intruder. At least I thought I read that somewhere.

The bustard sure had a lot of confidence in himself to stay in the house all that time while doing his dirty deeds. Maybe he knew Lizard Tongue's melatonin habit.

 

Agree to disagree

Wow what a cold human being JR must be! Not only does he participate in the murder and cover up of his daughter, but he picks this time to sit down at his desk and regale us with his faviorte ransome note lines from every kidnapping movie he's ever scene. I wonder how he picked which ones to use? Maybe he and PR even sat down and watched some of thier favorite movies to remind them while JBR was in the basement dying.

Can I play too Thor??? I can see you are having such a good time here. (Of course your explanation follows the known evidence, makes sense, and is sourced by someone who was there, but where's the fun in that??)

Im sorry Little, I keep forgetting that you guys and Steve Thomas have this all figured out. What I get from Steve Thomas is pretty much ---The FBI told me the parents did it so they must of.

Since we no longer have to discuss the case maybe we should all take a vote on what color PR would want her jail cell painted.

 

zman

Zman, you are being logical and up to a point reasonable. Sure someone COULD have stolen the pad (and pen) from the Ramsey home, written the note on those three sheets, kept them IN the pad, returned it and the pen to the house the night of the murder, and only at the very last minute torn those sheets out of the pad and placed them on the staircase. Good thinking. It COULD have happened that way. It seems reasonable UNTIL we ask ourselves WHY. WHY would any intruder have wanted to go to all that trouble?

If the intent was to frame John or Patsy, it makes no sense for the intruder to have written the note by hand, especially as there is no evidence whatsoever that an attempt had been made to forge the printing of either one. Some of the printing does look to me like John's writing, to others like Patsy's. But there are no obvious resemblances of the sort that would be a smoking gun. Experts have ruled John out and the same experts have all but ruled Patsy out. So it certainly doesn't look like the intruder was making any serious attempt to forge eithers handwriting. So what was the point of stealing the pad and returning it if the handwriting on the note was going to end up as evidence of Ramsey innocence? And possibly evidence that could be used against the intruder himself?

Anything is possible, of course. But the scenario you are putting forth simply doesn't add up. No one, not even someone out to "get" the Ramseys, would have had a reason to go to all that trouble. It looks VERY much like the note was written IN the house the night of the murder -- and it's very hard to believe any intruder would have taken all that time to write a note which could easily have been prepared beforehand. It's very hard to see how that note could have been written by anyone other than an insider.

As to WHY an INSIDER would want to write such a note, see my thread "Understanding the Ramsey Note."

 

Im sorry Little, I keep forgetting that you guys and Steve Thomas have this all figured out. What I get from Steve Thomas is pretty much ---The FBI told me the parents did it so they must of.

Since we no longer have to discuss the case maybe we should all take a vote on what color PR would want her jail cell painted.

Oh - a new game. Sorry, I’m really not interested in playing let’s pretend any longer, especially when it involves something as serious as a child being denied the justice they so richly deserve. But you needn’t think it’s only because it’s a rich child. I feel the same way about every victim of crime, most especially the most innocent and helpless of our society.

I want to see every person who manipulates the system to save their own selfish and self-centered hide made to answer for their crime. I hope I never become so blasé about the death of an innocent that I would feel a place in the spotlight was of more importance than the truth, or that I would give a rip who got credit for solving the crime.

So forgive me for being blunt, but unless this is going to honor the victim by taking her death seriously, I prefer to pass on the game.

 

Zman: My vote is for a windowless room with a wooden latch on the outside of her door, just to make Patsy Ramsey feel at home.

 

Thor,

I realize you are still thinking it was a Ramsey male who commited this crime, and of course, you may be right (?). We are all entitled to our own theories. I still respect your thoughts on this.

We have discussed this case for three years now and have helped each other many times. I hope we won't be discussing it for another three.

 

Questions

I know the inturder(not a stranger to the Ramseys) theory has a lot of holes in it. Why would an intruder do this? How would an intruder do that? The problem that I have is that no one wants to admit that it makes no sense for the R's to fake a kidnapping leaving JBR in the basement and not leaving an obvious entrance for the fake intruder. Does it make any sense to fake a kidnapping and then tie a garotte around her neck? Why set up a molestation scene if your going to fake a kidnapping? Why not just fake a break-in molestation. How about writing a ransome note with a pen and paper from inside the home. Does that make sense? These are educated people, their not stupid. Why would you call police when your own ransome note gives you reason not to call them for two days?


Go ahead I know you all have the answers.

 

St

A reading from the gospel of Steve Thomas:
Please Rise:
U.S. Secret Service eventually determined that one of those pens, a pre-November 1992 water-based ink Sharpie, was used to write both the practice and actual ransom notes. The Secret Service, which maintains a hugh database on inks because of its federally mandated assignment ot chase forgers, told us, "the ink 'on the note' is unique in the collection of approximately 7,000 standards from the Ink Library."

"That meant that whoever wrote the notes used the exact pen from that cup. They not only left the pad behind but, when they finished, neatly put the felt-tip pen in its container
Amen
You may now be seated.

Its scary to think this man was involved with clearing people.

It does not mean the person who wrote the note used the exact pen from that cup. It means that person put that pen in the cup. If I were a detective I would like to know if the other pens in the cup were from the same year. Was this one unique of the three. Were there any other pens like these in the house? How unusual is a pen from 1992 to be around? If you purchased a water-based ink Sharpie in late 1996 what would be the odds of it being the same? Or is the ink still being stocked from 1992 and used in newer Sharpie pens.

Like most evidence presented in this case ST only needs to be albe to relate it to PR because he suspects no one else.

 

Well, Steve Thomas was there, involved in the case and has good reasons for suspecting the Ramseys and so do I. You know things like seeing EVIDENCE

Example: The bogus JonBenet Ramsey Foundation that was going to do soooooo much good for children! Hah! A few token donations, mostly to Ramsey connected charities like THEIR church and THEIR kid's camp was all the foundation ever did.

Yet the Ramseys had the GALL to go on national tv to promote themselves, by boasting ALLLLLLLLLLl the things the foundation was going to do!

So yeah, I think the Ramseys are quite capable of forming a clumsy 'cover up' to save their behinds.

 

zman

zman sez:
"The problem that I have is that no one wants to admit that it makes no sense for the R's to fake a kidnapping leaving JBR in the basement and not leaving an obvious entrance for the fake intruder. Does it make any sense to fake a kidnapping and then tie a garotte around her neck? Why set up a molestation scene if your going to fake a kidnapping? Why not just fake a break-in molestation. How about writing a ransome note with a pen and paper from inside the home. Does that make sense? These are educated people, their not stupid. Why would you call police when your own ransome note gives you reason not to call them for two days?"

Excellent. I fully agree. Each side sees the absurdities of the other side. Very few indeed seem capable of grasping the absurdities of both. It is THESE mutual absurdities that make this case so difficult -- and challenging.

Now to your specific points. IMO the scene at the basement window DOES look very much like the staging of "an obvious entrance for the fake intruder." The only thing that prevented the police from seeing it as exactly that was John's claim of breaking the window months earlier. IMO that is a VERY dubious claim indeed. Long after the murder, both Ramseys were extremely vague about whether or not that window had ever been repaired. Given the crucial importance of that information to their intruder theory, it's just not believable that they wouldn't have at the very least ASKED the person who had been (supposedly) slated to repair it. There are many other reasons to feel they are being less than truthful on that score. It looks to me like the broken window was part of a staging effort that failed and because it was clearly failing, John was forced to lie about it. If he hadn't lied, the staging would have been all too obvious.

No, tying a garotte around JonBenet's neck makes no sense as part of the insider staging of a kidnapping. Either it happened as part of a REAL molestation episode, by an intruder or an insider, OR it was done for some other reason. The only other reason I can think of is to hide the evidence of manual strangulation by obliterating any possible hand and finger prints.

Why set up a molestation scene as part of a kidnapping staging? Another great question. The answer: IMO the molestation was REAL, not faked. Done by John NOT Patsy.

Why write a ransom note on pen and paper from inside the house? You really do need to read my thread on understanding the note. If John wrote that note as I suspect, he wouldn't have had much choice. He would have been inside the house after having "accidently" killed his daughter. No access to outside paper. Printing it from the computer would have been too noisy. Might wake Patsy or Burke. So it would have had to be by hand. Why in Patsy's notebook? For the very simple reason that this was not John's notebook, so it wouldn't be pointing obviously to him. Why by hand? Because John could have ultimately gotten rid of it, claiming the kidnappers had demanded it be returned. After showing it to Patsy and some friends, who would then vouch for its existence and content. If such a plan had been carried out the handwriting would never have been available to the authorities at all.

Why call the police when the note gave them reason to not call them for two days? Hey, you're stealing MY line. Because there was no "them." There is no such thing as "the Ramseys." There is John. And there is Patsy. I think John didn't want that call made. But Patsy made it anyhow. For whatever reason, who knows? And then lied about it because she was and still is being manipulated by him, in all innocence.

You see, zman, I DO have all the answers. But these are not the answers you expect, are they?

 

I don't have any of the answers -

but I do know that Gregg McCrary (who has a better chance of knowing the answers than most) talks about crime scene staging in his book "The Unknown Darkness" "Profiling the Predators Among Us". In chapter 9 he is writing about the Sam Shepherd case and mentions the Crime Classification Manual, which lists the red flags for staging. Alot of things listed pertain to the crime scene in the Ramsey's home also. Who would need to stage the scene in the Ramsey's home? Not a kidnapper, not a burglar, not a pedophile. Only members of that family would need to stage it.

Some of the things listed are : (items in parethesis are my comments)
*There may be pieces of evidence removed (how about the rest of the tape and rope)
* Did the point of entry make sense (what point of entry?)
* Did the perpetration of the crime present a high risk to the offender? ( if an intruder did this it would have been pretty darn high risk - which McCrary says intruders usually don't do crimes in high risk places)
* Excessive trauma beyond the necessary to cause death (bash on the head and strangulation)
* The offender will often manipulate the victim's discovery by a family member or friend (JR may not have manipulated the discovery by a family member or friend but he certainly made a beeline for the basement which seems to have given him an advantage if he wanted to mess up the crime scene)
*The crime scene often involves the victim's or offender's residence (how about both?)

Anyway, you get the picture. It is a good book, I highly recommend it.

 

Right on, Texan! I posted that info on CTV a while ago.

But you and McCrary are wrong about one thing--what ccould possibly be risky about spending hours staging a crime scene in someone else's home with everybody home? duh.

 

well alrighty then -

I'm not perfect after all. You have now burst my bubble. Not only that, you posted that info umpteen million minutes before me. Waaaaaah.

 

When you think of the amount of time this must have taken, Bob, from washing down JonBenét, redressing her; washing and drying the sheets and remaking the bed; creating the makeshift garrote; washing all the fingerprints off the counters in the kitchen; the flashlight; setting up the suitcase; opening the window; with everybody home, as you stated. This person was very much at home here, wouldn't you say?

 

Yes Elle. I would have to answer yes. Either that or the perpetrator was just an obsessed neat freak.