mybelief's post

Let's be realistic here. Your statements were far from run of the mill. Yes, it is the great United States! They are innocent until proven guilty. They aren't in prison are they? These are forums, where people express their opinions and on this particular forum, the majority of posters feel the Ramseys are not "innocent". Because this is the United States, we are allowed by law to opine without sending them to jail. That is your point is it not?

You claim you have been reading here awhile. Something you should have known

I think the majority of us are "debated out ad nauseum" Like ALL forums, we have a majority of posters who are like minded. UNlike some other forums, we have formed our opinions based on FACTS and not speculation and "inside sources" that "can't/won't be named".

We are all willing to see this in court and let the justice system handle it. However, that will likely NEVER happen

As per your own statements, you have read most of the information here, yet you can't seem to understand the passionate responses you have received. I'm not sure what you expected. We have already cited all the reasons ad nauseum why we don't buy what you are touting. What did you hope to achieve? Just making a statement? Why are you here? There are other forums where people like yourself are free to tout all the reasons you have cited here and it will be well received and welcomed warmly. Why here?

That's not news. We all know that

According to the theories in the majority here, nobody believes for one minute that they were "supposed to find the body". The police were inept and the Ramseys had no choice but to find her themselves to get the plan moving according to their plan

.

By their own hands

Hardly! They are not in jail and they still have plenty of money

And aren't you defending them based on the same papers, media, etc.? How do you know they don't deserve the villification they are getting? Do you know something we don't? Do you know them personally?

You do the same. We already have

yes

yes

yes

NO. They are not guilty of anything. THEY, unlike the Ramseys did everything asked of them by LE. THEY did not hire lawyers and leave town, refusing to speak to police. THEY did not hire their own investigators and hide information from police and ask the neighbors NOT to speak to the investigators from BPD. THEY are heroes for their cooperation. By the way, you left out John Walsh, who was a suspect and DEMANDED interrogations, polygraphs, etc. so that LE could find the murderer of his child.

We have all been awake. That's why we are here. We all say that. That's why the Ramseys should be in prison. You are pretty insulting to insinuate that only those who believe the Ramseys heroes care about children. Take a good look at your post and you will understand the chilly reception you are receiving. What have the Ramseys done for children? Where's the fund? Where's the advocacy? The parents you mentioned above have done more than the Ramseys have done in 10 years.

And they are still thanking God for that! Their prayers were answered by the inept investigation

This case is unresolved because the Ramseys let it remain unresolved. They bought their UN resolvedness (I don't know if that's a word, but I'm using it anyway)

I'm gonna barf. Read the papers. Happens all the time. And.....for the umpteenth time, how do you know none exists with the Ramseys? History has to be DOCUMENTED for there to be a "history". Boy, did you come to the wrong place with that line of crap!

First, one has to believe that they were an "average nuclear family". If you look deeper, there was nothing "average" about them. And yes, I believe that someone went "whacko".

Nobody asked for an apology, nor should you expect one from anyone here.

And they deserved it. They HELPED the investigation. Only the Ramseys have displayed irrational behavior for "some time" (10 years!)

WRONG! They weren't dealing with the PD at all. Therein lies the problem. They were not being targeted; this is normal for any PD. Start at the inside of a circle and work your way out. The Ramseys were on the inside of that circle and refused to let the authorities go further. They did it themselves.

YOU BETCHA!

That IS pretty much what you're saying.

So then you should never state that they weren't indicted for lack of evidence. Remember, the other legal theory is that they don't know WHICH Ramsey did it; HENCE, they cannot indict anyone.

Correct!

Lynch mob? Gee, where have I heard that before?

Nor are we willing to join the cult groupthink.

 

no no bobc

I believe the term used was "pubic fodder" not public fodder. That could be a freudian slip or something. :floor:

 

Yeah most of these arguments are coming from that general
area.

 

Second Post by MyBelief

That was better, Pats- I mean, MyBelief. Hardly any alliteration (although towards the end you lost it at "acting ability" and "coverup conspiracy" - interesting words, I think) and edited for ransom note words.

If you've really read the evidence discussed on this forum, then you wouldn't be able to just say that the Ramseys have been vilified because of an incompetent police department. The cops just reported what they found. The Boulder PD itself hasn't ever said the Ramseys did it.

As to whether they COULD have done it - well, in fact, they could have. And, not to be insulting, but richer, more powerful, "classier", and prettier people than the Ramseys have done awful bad things like this in history. It's not unheard of. Justice isn't supposed to be about who you are, but what you did.

OK - statistics. The FBI said they had NEVER seen a case of a kidnapping attempt with a 3 page ransom note, with the child later found "bound" and gagged in the basement of her own home. If you want the probablility on that - it's zero.

 

LOL - Great catch, Texan!

MyBelief should proofread her sermons before posting them.

I'm with Bob ... cut the cliches and the lecturing. Life's too short to go 'round this mulberry bush again.

The Ramseys have invited our contempt by their actions. They alone are responsible for the existence of this forum, its members and our opinion of their disregard for JonBenet. They put themselves first. It was always about them and their protection, never about JonBenet or finding her "killer." They were more concerned with going to jail than finding justice for their daughter.

And don't ever bring up the Polly Klass or Jessica Lunsford families again in the same breath with the Ramseys. How DARE you group those people together when the Klass and Lunsford families did everything they could to find justice for their daughters. They were also under suspicion (like the Ramseys), but they weren't afraid of going to jail, of unfair prosecution, or the loss of their reputations because that was the least of their concerns.

The Ramseys made their bed, now they have to lie in it.

Now THERE'S a cliche for you.

 

I think I remember this "pubic" fodder-spreader. Wasn't the swamp once designated the PUBIC FORUM by jams in the description on the forum page? Like WY said, nobody new around here.

Yourbelief, you lied in your first words on this forum, the moment you stated we believe the Rams are guilty "...with little or no...evidence...":

Unless you are mentally impaired in some way that derails your own skills of logic, you know you're lying. You can open one of a thousand threads here that is all about a plethora of evidence we use to support our arguments and reach our conclusions. You can point and click, can you not?

Yet to make your point, you choose to use the tabs as the cornerstone of your argument that we come to our conclusions that the Rams are involved in the murder of JonBenet based on "little or no actual evidence," "lacking discrimination":

That's special of you--with "little or no actual" intelligence on your part. If anyone is using the tabs, I think it's jams and the Rams, both of whom made quite a haul selling out to them, didn't they? So if that's your point of reference, you're pointing the finger in the wrong direction.

As for the complete picture of the sources WE use, we have seen ALL the same sources you have to form an opinion--and probably many, many more, judging by your lack of actual information about the Grand Jury shenanigans--but I'll get to that later. I don't think the tabs' "headlines" or simple-minded, gossipy style of reporting has played into my opinion at all. (With the exception of the Ramsey interview with the NE, and converse to your implications, I only saw the Ramseys and Wood corroborate the important information that came out of that, like that Burke actually was awake that morning; and those original '98 DA interview transcripts from the pilfered tapes and the exemplar handwriting documents, all of which jams admits she sold to them--all tracing back to Smit himself, the Rams' main man. So how you argue being influenced by those reports when forming an opinion is somehow not using actual evidence, I'm not sure, but how Ramsey of you. *grin* )

We have all had a decade of books, Smit's TV spin shows with his infamous PowerPoint, jams' "leaked" tapes and handwriting exemplars, the Rams themselves dozens of times speaking on TV, in mags, in lectures, in their book, in depos under oath, being interviewed by detectives and lawyers, in press conferences with their lawyers, press conferences and TV appearances and books with the DA, LE, experts, reports in every news medium on every level in existence, evidence galore on the case...so how does this make us less capable than you to come to a conclusion based on so much more than tabs? But that's the implied opening argument you made: we use the tabs, so we're ignorant beer can collectors. If you have deduced that from the 10 years of discussion on this case on these forums, wherein many people do find the Ramseys the prime suspects, then you are the one who is lacking in cognitive thinking skills.

So you start out pretty much with the agenda of using a guise of case discussion to basically come into this forum to say we are just stupid, evil people who want to lynch the innocent Rams...for sport? Because we discuss the case and we have a different opinion than you do? Do you really need to be reminded the Rams themselves went on TV and also published a book where they discussed "suspects"? Or that at the RST forum of disinformation, they discuss really innocent people all day long as suspects--unless you are the poster there who thinks everyone in Boulder and probably Colorado, not to mention from several planets, was in on it, in which case, never mind....

A simple cursory glance around this forum's threads would suffice to show anyone we truly debate the facts of evidence all the time. We argue over interpretations of the evidence. I don't think two people here have ever stated their theories are exactly the same, and most of us have several we consider possible. So to start your attack with such error in fact and judgment is quite what we have come to expect from Ramsey supporters: you just don't have any ability to integrate facts and information and come up with a reasonable conclusion. That's why you're a Ramsey supporter.

For example, you have drawn a conclusion here based in some completely false premises: that no one spoke to the Grand Jury but those testifying for and at the invitation of the prosecutor; that the Grand Jury only hears what the prosecutor wants them to hear; that the Grand Jury ultimately decides who gets arrested and tried; and that the Grand Jury did not support an indictment.

First, perhaps you missed that Lou Smit forced his way into the Grand Jury by blackmailing Hunter and testified to his heart's content--for the intruder theory. It was foxy of Smit, I'll give him that, but as stupid and corrupt as Hunter and his entire BDA's Office was, not that hard to accomplish. So, just like Judge Carnes, the Grand Jury heard the defense/intruder theory presented by Lou "stun gun" Smit, and howdy. You really should check out this sidebar of shocking misconduct all the way round, it's quite a story that explains so much about where this case went desperately wrong.

FACT: the Grand Jury can and did ask for evidence they wanted to see which was not presented to them by the prosecutor, including DNA results that meant having DNA tested that had not been previously tested. The Grand Jury was used as an investigative body, as it often is. In this murder case, the problem with the Grand Jury was Hunter made sure it was called about two years too late. In my OPINION, but for Steve Thomas' highly publicized resignation letter sent to the Governor, leading the Governor to call a panel together to make recommendations in this case, leading to the Governor telling Hunter to call a Grand Jury...I doubt there would have been a Grand Jury hearing to this day in this case, IMO.

Next FACT: the final decision to INDICT OR NOT was ALWAYS Hunter's. To force a prosecutor and DA to indict a case who doesn't intend to do so takes removing the prosecutor from the case after a lengthy and protracted series of motions and filings in court, with a judge usurping the DA's authority in the case, and that's not going to happen in Colorado. So Hunter had the final say, no matter what the Grand Jury did. We know how that ended.

Smit's little end run around Hunter notwithstanding, you DO NOT KNOW what the Grand Jury did or did not do. Unless you were there, unless you are with the DA's Office, a Grand Juror, or professionally connected to the DA's Office, unless you are confessing right now that you were given information by one of the aforementioned that will get that person arrested in Colorado...you do not know what the Grand Jury found, did not find, or if they even voted or wrote a summary. If you're going by some secret chat room gossip to come to that conclusion...or if you're relying on the spin of Team Ramsey...then you are as biased as most Ramsey supporters. (What a surprise.) It's not a fact just because the RST said it. So unless you can state your source, then don't chastise us for basing our conclusions on tab "gossip" when that's all you're doing when you say such a thing. In fact, Dr. Lee wrote in his own book about the case that he counseled Hunter NOT to indict after the Grand Jury concluded: one could draw from that the Grand Jury DID vote to indict. Or not, since a prosecutor does not have to have a Grand Jury's approval to indict in some states.

So here is some factual evidence to support why there was no INDICTMENT, no prosecution of the Ramseys, rather than basing your conclusions on "little or no actual evidence," which is what you obviously do yourself.

Now, just how do you come off declaring WE reach a "guilty" conclusion based on little or no actual evidence, when you yourself can't string a fact-based argument together in the examples I pulled out of your first paragraphs?

 

BAM!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

 

Only surviving daughter?? If John and Patsy had another daughter besides JonBenet, then that's certainly news to me.

You know, at first glance, John and Patsy appear to be completely incapable of committing such a crime against their beloved daughter. That is until you peel off their facade and read between their lines.

John Ramsey himself confirmed this acting ability when, during a Nov 1999 interview with a Nashville, TN tv station, he said "I think I can write a book on how you act when you've lost a child."

-Tea

 

OH, why don't these shills ever try to learn the truth before they go posting completely inaccurate information?

Patsy indeed WAS a champion actor: it was her specialty in high school competition, and she won her state title more than once and came in second at National competition, if memory serves. I've personally coached and attended these high school competitions, and if you think these kids aren't talented when they reach that level, you don't know what you're talking about. Not to mention, Patsy won a scholarship for writing and acting in the Miss American pageant, competing against the best of the best, didn't she? No such thing in her background? Ha!

Not only that, Patsy's forte was in fact oral interpretation. She was a journalisim major and worked in advertising, didn't she? She did public civic work involving not only her own projects and activities, but she was well into getting JonBenet trained in public appearances, as well. Remember the pageants? Remember the performances? Remember JonBenet as Marilyn Monroe at her school, singing and dancing at the mall just days before her murder?

As for John's acting ability, how did he have an affair for two years living with his wife and children if he couldn't act believably?

And it never fails to amaze me how people who have never once met the Ramseys, much less lived with them, can unequivocally state how they were not capable of doing this, had no prior history. JonBenet's chronic vaginal injuries were PRIOR history. John's admitted adultery leading to divorce was PRIOR history. John Andrew's arrest for underage drinking was PRIOR history. Burke hitting JonBenet in the face with a golf club was PRIOR history, and uncomfortably foreshadowed the head blow to come. Just to name a few things we actually KNOW about.

What we don't know is what those who do know haven't felt compelled to tell the world about. Considering the repercussions of simply knowing the Ramseys when this murder took place, added to how many people get sued for even talking about it if their information doesn't please the Ramseys, I think it's absurd to claim if no one has revealed to the public anything negative about any Ramsey "history," it didn't happen.

But even if that were true, what about the preacher's wife who shot her husband in the back twice with a shotgun? So far, nobody has said one bad word about her, either, have they? If that family has history, we'll have to wait for trial to hear it. Even at trial, very few people came forward to talk about Scott Peterson's "history" of bad actions, either, aside from Amber, and she didn't have a clue right up until he murdered his pregnant wife. Who among those who knew him would have believed up until that day that Scott would do something so evil? Nobody that I have seen or heard yet. After trial, even then, the stories were few and far between, nothing more heinous that an affair here or there, with the requisite lies and cover up, I'm sure John did the same...all in the past...up until Amber...up until JonBenet.

Just as Cherokee said, few would remember their names but for their own refusal to help LE in the investigation of their little girl's murder, pointing fingers and blame at everyone but themselves, evading their responsibilities as parents like two spoiled snobs...only this was about a child being murdered in their home, not who snubbed them at the social club. What innocent parent does that? Oh, they make excuses, but it's no good. Even Lin Wood said their actions after the murder make them look guilty in the court of public opinion.

So people can save their whining for the poor Rams or take it to the swamp where they love it. The poor Rams aren't the ones who suffered or lost the most here, JonBenet is. They certainly weren't too concerned about that, or they'd have gone to the police station and done what needed to be done to find the killer, which they have NOT done TO THIS DAY. And they never will.

 

Say all the bad things you want, Wombat. You're an Australian and can get away with it. Pulease say it all with a Paul Hogan/ Crocodile Dundee accent.
"That's not a knoife. This is a Knoife!"

 

Well said Cherokee!

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Cherokee
LOL - Great catch, Texan!

MyBelief should proofread her sermons before posting them.

I'm with Bob ... cut the cliches and the lecturing. Life's too short to go 'round this mulberry bush again.

The Ramseys have invited our contempt by their actions. They alone are responsible for the existence of this forum, its members and our opinion of their disregard for JonBenet. They put themselves first. It was always about them and their protection, never about JonBenet or finding her "killer." They were more concerned with going to jail than finding justice for their daughter.

And don't ever bring up the Polly Klass or Jessica Lunsford families again in the same breath with the Ramseys. How DARE you group those people together when the Klass and Lunsford families did everything they could to find justice for their daughters. They were also under suspicion (like the Ramseys), but they weren't afraid of going to jail, of unfair prosecution, or the loss of their reputations because that was the least of their concerns.

The Ramseys made their bed, now they have to lie in it.

Now THERE'S a cliche for you.
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Well said, Cherokee! Pow!

 

Why NOT give us your reasons for believing the Ramseys are innocent? Why bother making the statements (ad nauseum), you surely ought to be able to back up your beliefs with facts.

I'm sure Melinda would like to be informed she was dead. Perhaps the Ramseys haven't told her, yet?

Bullshirt. The Ramseys choreographed those nightmarish events right down to JR "finding" her body and carrying her upstairs to Patsy's throwing herself on JB's body and performing her Lazurus skit. The Ramseys destroyed the crime scene, not the cops, and they invited all their friends over to witness it. There was no rush to judgment by the cops. What there was though, was incompetence and corruption and good old boy cronyism (and still is) in the BDA's office.

How the hel! would you know this? Did you live with the Ramseys day in and day out. Were you privy to everything that went on inside their home? Were you a little bug on the wall that saw everything? That's an assinine statement, one that irks me everytime someone says it. Just because someone hasn't been caught doing wrong, especially in their own homes, doesn't mean they haven't done wrong. Sociopaths shine in public - they are often do-gooders with squeaky clean reputations. Behind closed doors, though, or in dark places, they are the worst kind of human beings. No one can say with certainty what went on in the Ramseys' house when the doors closed. For anyone (especially someone who didn't even know them) to say there were no "indicators" is just plain ignorant.

No one on this forum is out to lynch anyone nor have we ever been, and no one came to the conclusion that the Ramseys know what happened to their daughter without thorough and careful consideration of all the evidence that has been released and witnessing the actions of all involved.

I would ask, though, if you believe we are a lynch mob - why DID you join FFJ? As far as I can see, so far, everyone here has been pretty civil to you, considering how we despise Rambots who try to come here to stir up trouble. Patience with fools isn't a virtue here, especially not with me. So, unless you have something new to offer (like that "new evidence" that has come out in the past year, LOL), I'd say you're on borrowed time here.

You are also out of your element, so either come up with some substantial reasons why you believe what you believe and stop thinking we should defend our positions against the generalities (aka garbage) you throw out, and stop with the BS.

 

And, by the way,

Who are you trying to kid? You make a statement like that, then out of the other side of your face you say,

We love to debate facts with intelligent people. There can be no debate when you refuse to state your facts, or reasons, because debate takes two sides who know the issues and are willing to state them.

 

Sorry I'm late! I couldn't find my rope anywhere...........must have given it to the last person that needed enough to hang themselves with.

RR

 

Did you bring the duct tape?

 

I just can't get over the fact that the Ramseys were lynched and no one told me. Where's the news coverage? The last I knew they'd extorted money out of dozens of news outlets and were living off that rather happily.

 

Gee.....

Sounds like Bob has never listened to a word jameson's said.

Just a guess.

WY - the rest of the duct tape evidence was spirited away by Auntie Pam, but you knew that already.

One more thing - the only thing heinous about her murder is who the murderer is. IMO - I have seen far worse ways a child has been killed than the warm, loving setting of JonBenet's demise.

RR

 

:floor: LOL! That's where I was going start!! yeah... WHERE is that exculpatory evidence??

Is this person person still with us... or have they been banned? :wyban:

 

Mybelief is still amongst us, Niner. You know how the cat bats the mouse around before he devours it?

Mybelief has made a lot of generic statements but has not provided anything of substance to debate. It's just more of the regurgitated propaganda anyone can pick up just by visiting the swamp.

 

I found her use of the term lynch mob quite innovative. I actually cried myself to sleep last night as I considered the plight of poor Patsy. This morning I have that glamorous up-all-night-crying-my-eyes-out look.

All because of Mybelief's emotive post.