Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)

I would have done exactly the same thing if I had been in your position, WY.
Good for you! I think I would have flattened him right into the wall.

 

Wow, WY - good thing you're a psychobitch!!! I always love how you manage to get certain words past the sensor, by the way.

Is Psychobitch going to be part of your hat?

Seriously, you should be proud of yourself for not killing the BIL.

I first thought that Patsy the narcissist made up the O.C. to get attention, that it wasn't Stage IV at diagnosis, but I now believe it was. What irony to be slapped with something that will get you the most amount of attention in the world "young mother with terminal cancer" when all you want it to cruise at supreme over the top of the world.

 

Nice work Amber!!

Well, this is the JR side. He is NOT Bi-Polar 1 or 2. NARCISSISISM all the way home! NICE job. This is a condition or state of mind/ Personality of "God Like" to the person inflicted. Like I posted Earlier, in this Illness The person and God are Even! Way inflated in the mind. Going through some things I have of the Mental side of "Immeshed Personality" of the Patsy side for you guys , will post later.

 

One glaring difference in bipolar and narcissistic personality disorder is that when manic, the person will have pressured speech, as if they are possessed to keep talking and talking, kind of like a speed addict. They will fill up a stadium with their words!! That is no part of narcissism. So if you have someone who is just insane with energy, ideas, they are speaking a mile a minute and grandiose to the point of delusion, that is a manic phase. They sleep only a couple of hours a night, have all sorts of schemes, plans, and are high from working on their ideas (sometimes crazy, sometimes good ideas). They will invest money in crazy ideas, go on spur-of-the moment trips to somewhere they have never been. They will charm anyone around them, are the life of the party. And then they will suddenly crash to the bottom and will be the worst possible person on the planet. There is little if any middle ground.

These people are the hardest to medicate, because it usually means losing that high from the mania and they are very reluctant to lose it. They commit suicide, not in the depressed phase, but as they are emerging back into mania, because then they have the energy and can plan much better.

The narcissist and sociopath is cold inside. If a sociopath, there is no conscience and no concept of wrong for himself. It is the rest of the world that is wrong (The World Killed JonBenet!). I believe wholeheartedly that JR fits this profile, because he could implicate his supposed best friends in the murder of his daughter, while knowing exactly how she died and what torture he inflicted prior to that, and continue his life in the following years, smiling and full of energy and peace. It is not God that brought that peace to John Ramsey, it is the lack of any contact with God. I don't know that sociopaths think of themselves as God, they are just morally devoid of any way to think of being wrong. They feel that other people are just there to be used.

I think Patsy had her own mental problems, but the more I consider John Ramsey and how he has acted from the beginning, I think he was controlling her to a great extent. I do not believe that Patsy was strong enough to carry out the staging. I think John did most of that, or talked Patsy through it. I believe that he could easily have ended JonBenet's life and not looked back. Maybe harsh, maybe wrong, but what I see leads me to believe that only scrutinizing Patsy leaves out the main factor of who John Ramsey appears to be.

Heymom

Heymom

 

Thanks Spade and Insight

Heymom...

One glaring difference in bipolar and narcissistic personality disorder is that when manic, the person will have pressured speech, as if they are possessed to keep talking and talking, kind of like a speed addict. They will fill up a stadium with their words!! That is no part of narcissism.

So true. The first time I knew something was wrong with my SIL was just after she gave birth. She was out for the first time, we were in a chemist and she suddenly went from 0 to 100 miles an hour verbally. It was just so bizarre, I'd never experienced anything like it. She kept picking things up, ridiculous things and saying I'll buy this for you and this and this...even though I kept saying no. She was admitted that night.

 

Thank you all for your work on this thread. It is interesting reading about the complexity of what to look for in these disorders. So many of the traits are outward, physical, who really knows what is going on inside the mind? Being deceitful is something that comes out eventually, a clue to a disorder. I think that to hold deep secrets in the mind, hidden away from society's scrutiny is not easily diagnosed and can be undetectable. The person suffering from the mental illness would be unaware of it's presence overtaking the mind, and so would society. It is a fascinating subject.

 

Did the childbirth bring out her symptoms? Did she have her thyroid checked at the time? All sorts of weird hormonal things happen after childbirth, which is where the post-partum depression comes in. I myself got whacky after my 2nd child was born - panic attacks and depression at the same time. My thyroid was overproducing. Is your SIL still having episodes? Gosh that must have been really tough, having just had a baby. I know I was in terrible shape but fortunately I got treatment and improved...and my thyroid finally sort of burned itself out and now I have to take supplement.

My best friend is bipolar - you would not believe some of the stuff we used to talk about when she was up. One time she went into a depression and wouldn't speak to me at all - she wasn't mad at me, but she just didn't talk. She would get mad at me, though, just out of the blue, for no reason. She was really jealous of other friends, too. Very emotionally volatile when up, very black when down. It was a wild time - looking back now I can see the pattern but then I just thought she was such a unique person. She is still unique but I'm glad she is under treatment now.

I know others who are rapid-cyclers - they come and go out of mania more quickly than expected. It can be within the same day, where they are up and then down. Their highs aren't quite so high, because they don't have time to really go crazy before their mood drops again, but it's like never knowing who you are dealing with or what reaction you are going to get. Some people enjoy this sort of chaos and drama - I really don't.

God I sound surrounded by insanity, don't I??? They're coming to take me away, ha-ha, ho-ho, to the funny farm, where I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats...

TMI? :2mchinfo: :bed: :takeoff:

 

I gotta disagree with you there insight. I used to work with a Narcissist and Narcissism is not a state of mind per se. And the person I worked with was a devout Christian or at least by ALL appearences was one. He never, ever thought of himself as being even with or above God.

 

LOL)

Don't worry, you're not the only one surrounded

The doctors thought the birth triggered the MD, I think they said it was latent waiting for a trigger. I doubt they checked her thyroid.

She began 'remembering' being sexually abused as a child by her step-father during this initial episode, which was very distressing - is she really remembering? Is it the illness, is it the drugs?

Longterm it caused her and my brother to split up. She became physically violent when in her volatile phase. I'm not sure if she is still on meds, but I know she makes my brother's life hell by refusing access and demanding more money and threatening him. But she's as nice as pie with my mom and me.

I do worry for my niece though...she gets the full venom when my SIL is volatile...she's 16 and now wants to live with my brother. My SIL told her that if she did she would be dead to her and her brothers. She would NEVER see them again.

 

This IS the the core here: 4 Paradox one and all

Well, I looked up alot of case files tonight to try and get this nice and clear.
I will let you know what catigory JR and PS are in, IMO.


1.)HISTRIONIC PERSONALITY DISORDER-
REALLY A ROLLARCOSTER OF DRAMA. IT IS A DRAMA KING'S WORLD, WITH SHALLOW EMOTIONS. INTERACTIONS WITH OTHERS ARE INNAPPROAIATE WITH SEXUALLY PERVOCITIVE AND SEDUCTIVE BEHAVIOR USED FOR ATTENTION. THIS PERSONALITY TYPE MUST BE THE CENTER OF ATTENTION, FOR THEM TO BE COMFORTABLE AT ALL. THEY GIVE IMMPERESSIONISTIC, RAMBLING, UNDETAILED SPEECH THAT OTHERS CAN EASILY INFLUNSE. THEY PRETENT TO BE CLOSE BUT ARE IN THINGS FOR THE OUTCOME. THIS IS UNUSUALY IN MENTAL CONDITIONS, BUT THEY ARE REALLY HIGH FUNCTIONING IN BUSINESS AND SOCIALLY. IF ANYTHING FAILS IN EITHER, IT'S THE OTHERS FAULT. THE ILLNESS AFFECTS THEIR ABILITY TO COPE NORMALLY WITH LOSS. :
My Opinion. Not Patsy, and too much of a push over illness for JR. he goes deeper.

2.)PHYCHOSIS-
WELL THIS ILLNESS IS REALLY EASY TO SEE AND TELL, WHEN YOU LIVE WITH OR KNOW SOMEONE WHO HAS IT. YOU CAN SEE THE MANIFICATIONS IT TAKES ON. THE PHYCHOTIC DOESN'T HAVE A GUT FEELING TO GO WITH ALL THE TIME. THIS IS A REAL MENTAL TRAVESTY. THEY CLAIM TO SEE PEOPLE OR THINGS THAT ARE NOT THERE, THEY SEE THE WORLD IN UNITS AT A TIME. LIKE HOME TODAY IS NICE, THERE IS WARM SOUP FOR LUNCH. ASK THE PERSON TOMORROW AND THE HOUSE MAY BE TELLING HIM IF HE STAY'S IN IT, HE WILL MELT.
My Opinion: Neither JR or PR.

BI-POLAR 1 AND BI-POLAR 2-
BI-POLAR 1 IS A MILD FORM OF THE ILLNESS. USUALLY YOU SEE THE LOWS AND HIGHS. SOME ARE CYCLIC AND HAVE RAPID CYCLING GOING ON DAILY, SOME HAVE ONE PART MORE THAN THE OTHER. IT USUALLY CAN BE TREATED WITH ANTI-DEPRESSANTS AND LOW LEVEL LITHUM. MAYBE ANXIETY MED'S AS WELL. EACH CASE IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. ONE MAY HAVE MAJOR DEPRESSION(THIS IS THE LOW MOOD, THE DOMINATE MOOD) BUT MAJOR DEPRESSION TENDS TO OVER THROW THE MANIC SIDE. IT RULES IN THIS CASE. SO THE MANIC SIDE IS THERE, BUT DOESN'T SHOW UP MUCH. WHEN IT DOES, IT DOESN'T CAUSE THE PERSON TO DO REALLY MANIC THINGS LIKE STEAL, CHEAT.... IT IS MORE LIKE THEY GET DRUNK OR GO SHOPPING TO MAKE THEMSELVES FEEL TEMP. BETTER. NEED LESS SLEEP, TO ALERT. THIS TYPE IS LESS DISTRUCTIVE TO THE PERSON THAN BP1
BI-POLAR 1-
THIS IS FULL BLOWN MANIC DEPRESSION. IT'S THE ROLLARCOASTER YOU WOULD "NEVER" RIDE. THIS ILLNESS IS VERY TERRIBLE FOR THE PERSON. THEY GO INTO A DEPRESSION THAT IS SO LOW THAT THEY CUT THEMSELVES TO FEEL BETTER. IT'S LIKE "OK, I TORCHERED MYSELF, IS THAT ENOUGH FOR THIS TO GO AWAY?" IT'S A DEPTH OF DISPAIR YOU WILL NEVER KNOW (UNLESS YOU HAVE IT). THE HIGHS ARE REALLY DESTRUCTIVE, INDRECRESSION CHEATING, STEALING- ROBBERY, HI TYPE DRUGS, RUNNING AWAY... YOU GET IT.
My Opinion: NO way JB or PS


3.)NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER-
OK HERE'S THE ONE I THINK ARE APPARENT FOR JR:

THIS PERSON NEEDS EXCESSIVE ADMIRATION, ALL THE TIME. IT'S THE FINAL GOAL. OF COURSE IT IS, AS THEY FEEL "THEY ARE ENTITLED" TO IT. THEY DO NOT TRUST ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES, BOTTOM LINE. AFTER ALL, NOOBODY DOES IT BETTER. HE USE OTHERS AS A "MIRROR" TO REFLECT TO HIM A PERCEPTION OF HIS "GRAND AND BRILLIANT" ACCOMPLISHMENTS. HE EXPECTS ALL TO COVET AND LOVE ALL HIS DOINGS. HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS WIFE AND CHILDREN ARE SHALLOW. A BEST FRIEND IS ONLY THIS , "THE BEST PERSON TO REFLECT BACK TO HIM WHAT HE WANTS TO SEE IN HIMSELF" (POOR FLEET, NEVER HAD A CHANCE). HE IS SELF ABSORBED AND INTRESTED IN NOONE BUT HIMSELF.

4.) BORDERLINE PERSONILITY DISORDER-
MY OPINION , THIS THIS OF THE LATE PR
THESE PEOPLE ARE LIKE CAMILLIONS. THE CHANGE TO FIT EVERY ENVIORMENT, DOING, PARTY, LIFESTYLE. THEY FIT OTHER PEOPLE. EVEN MIMMICKING THEM, WHAT THEY WEAR, TO HOW THEY LAUGH AND SPEAK. THEY ARE VISUAL AND AUDIO TAPE RECORDERS THEY NEED FOR LIFE. THEY SEE THINGS IN BLACK OR WHITE. NO GREY AREA, NO COLOR. DO OR DON'T, THAT'S THE CHOICES. ANYTHING INBETWEEN CAUSES AN IMBALANCE OF ANXIETY. THEY CAN ACTUALLY SEE THIS CHANGE AS "LIFE THREATENING". THIS PERSON LOST THEIR IDENTITY PROBALLY IN CHILDHOOD BY TRAGITY OR CHILD ABUSE."THEY ARE EMOTIONALLY UNSTABLE AND INTENSE IN
RELATIONSHIPS THAT ARE INTERPERSONAL (FAMILY, FRIENDS.)THE ILLNESS ALSO GIVES HER A FEELING OF EMPTYNESS. SHE THEN DISPLAYS INAPPROPRIATE INTENSE ANGER. THIS IS CHRONIC. WHEN BONDING WITH HER OWN FEMALE CHILD, HER DAUGHTER BECOMES HER. THEY ARE INTERMESHED AS ONE BEING. ANY SEPERATION OF THAT BOND MEANS DEATH TO THE HOST. HER MOTHER.

Enjoy... was alot of work

 

Ransom note

I thought the above ransom note analysis was interesting in light of this thread, Specifically:

This is not just an instance of a novice making a few mistakes under extreme pressure, it reveals much about the personality and psychology of the writer that existed long before the note was written and in all probability still exists. It reveals the mode of thought, thus exposing the underlying belief and value system of said writer.

By general knowledge of other human beings, you can anticipate in large degree the probable response to something you are thinking of saying or doing. In closer interpersonal relationships with individuals, this is refined to a higher degree of anticipated reaction. This does not mean that you will correctly anticipate 100% of the time, but it does mean that you calculate the potential reaction and evaluate it in making a decision that involves these other persons. Its a mental habit.

This thought process and psychology is missing from the note. The note clearly indicates the writer made no attempt whatsoever to anticipate and write accordingly. The writer shows no empathy with the likely viewers. The note was written from a reactive personal perspective and presented from a personal viewpoint without the slightest consideration for the probable viewpoint of others. It is as if the writer's viewpoint is the only one that exists or can exist. It was presented from this psychology. The writer could not think and write from any other perspective because this is the fundamental psychology of the writer.

I do not wish to dwell on this, but just wanted to point out this absence of empathy and an isolation factor that appears to be a central element of the psychology of the note writer. The logical inferences of this are far reaching and potential explanation of related events.

What I am describing here as indicated by the note is an emotional isolation that in all probability you have never experienced. You may be accustomed to having warm, deep, loving and affectionate relationships with parents, children, friends, etc; and observing others doing the same, but the writer of the note is totally incapable of this.

It may appear differently on the surface, but its merely role playing at what the writer thinks is proper and socially acceptable. The actual emotions are non existent. There is no deep and close emotional connection to anyone and never has been. Any semblance of such a relationship is forced and temporary. In a brief period of time, the relationship disappears as it yields to the dominant underlying psychology of rejection and isolation.

 

Insight

BORDERLINE PERSONILITY DISORDER-
MY OPINION , THIS THIS OF THE LATE PR
THESE PEOPLE ARE LIKE CAMILLIONS. THE CHANGE TO FIT EVERY ENVIORMENT, DOING, PARTY, LIFESTYLE. THEY FIT OTHER PEOPLE. EVEN MIMMICKING THEM, WHAT THEY WEAR, TO HOW THEY LAUGH AND SPEAK. THEY ARE VISUAL AND AUDIO TAPE RECORDERS THEY NEED FOR LIFE. THEY SEE THINGS IN BLACK OR WHITE. NO GREY AREA, NO COLOR. DO OR DON'T, THAT'S THE CHOICES. ANYTHING INBETWEEN CAUSES AN IMBALANCE OF ANXIETY. THEY CAN ACTUALLY SEE THIS CHANGE AS "LIFE THREATENING". THIS PERSON LOST THEIR IDENTITY PROBALLY IN CHILDHOOD BY TRAGEDY OR CHILD ABUSE."THEY ARE EMOTIONALLY UNSTABLE AND INTENSE IN
RELATIONSHIPS THAT ARE INTERPERSONAL (FAMILY, FRIENDS.)


My Friend's NPD partner also exhibited these traits...at times he acted like the robot boy in the film AI as he tried to mimic real human emotions.

BPD and NPD can overlap.

One example - once when he didn't know we were observing him, he picked up his baby son and carried him over to a large mirror. He then stayed there for 10 minutes, staring at himself, never once looking at his son's reflection only his own, and he tried different facial expressions. It was as if he was trying to find the right expression that a father would have holding his son...totally scary and totally sad.

 

I don't know if any of you are soap fans, but every now and then I get a chance to watch General Hospital, because I am a fan of Maurice Benard and a couple of other long-time actors on the show.

Not too long ago, they did a story of a manic-depressive, played by Maurice Benard, who is, in real life, manic depressive, or bi-polar. He had long been after the writers to write a segment on bi-polar disease, and he played it perfectly, and after having read so much about the disease, it was very interesting to see his portrayal.

Of course, I could sit and stare at Maurice Benard all day long.

 

Who does he play? My mother used to watch GH when I was but a baby, and it was still in black and white. I got hooked a few times and loved the Luke and Laura days.

Who better than a true manic depressive to play one??? I would have liked to see this episode.

Heymom

 

One more thought about JR and him being a sociopathic narcissist...

We wonder on a regular basis about JR wanting and allowing Burke to leave the house that morning. If JR is what I think he is, he wouldn't have cared what happened to Burke that morning, as long as the boy wasn't there to mess up JR's plan. Out of sight, out of mind, take him away, whatever. If Burke had no value in the plan, he had no value at all. It fits with the picture of what happened that day after JonBenet was killed.

Patsy was either as sick as John or she was completely under his control. What mother would allow her other child to be taken away from her after her daughter had been murdered? No way.

Heymom

 

Maurice plays Sonny Corrinthos, the mobster. In RL, he is married and has two or three daughters and a son. His marriage was threatened by his disease, but she stuck with him. He is on medication to control the disease. it was riveting to watch him. Of course, his evil brother took advantage of his disease to his own ends, but in the end it didn't work. Alcohol and bi-polar disease definitely do not mix.

 

Gee........over at the Swamp, it looks like they are also bouncing the bi-polar ball around too. Imagine that...

 

That's the guy with black wavy hair and sort of an ivory complexion, right? I remember him from years ago. He was awfully sexy. His wife must be a strong lady. It's a very difficult thing to live with. Bless his heart.

Heymom

 

Well, he has black, wavy hair, but his complexion is not ivory. He has the most gorgeous dimples.

 

Okay, I just about shorted out my keyboard with drool!!!! Hubba hubba. Gosh, he's aging well, like a good merlot. For some reason I thought he had ivory skin. Ooh la la. What a hottie.

Heymom