New Dr. Bea thread. Post your questions here.

I'm sure Fly will say

That the enormous force of the headblow was overkill--the famous quote being she was hit hard enough to kill a 350lb football player. But take that with a grain of salt because Cyril Wecht said that even a nine YO boy, Burke, had sufficient strength to inflict this blow.

There were bruises, if I recall correctly, around the vagina, which to me could be the signs of a parent infuriated by a bed wetting event. But other than that, I'd have to say calling this an overkill situation is a real stretch. I know John Douglass said the JBR case is an example of overkill--but of course he's the same guy who had the audacity to proclaim J&P innocent without seeing one page of the case file.

Totally unprofessional and ridiculous. I throw out your witness, Miss Fly.

FLAME ON!!

 

the head injury

Quite a few posters feel the head injury was not caused by a heavy object, but contact with a flat surface such as the wooden floor in the hall, through maybe being chased in anger by Patsy "for whatever reason" ...she stumbles on the spiral staircase and hits her head on the wooden floor.
It has also been hypothesised that Patsy thought she was dead from this injury, and seeing her stirring realized she wasn't and the staging began.

I'm one of the posters who believe the knots were not complicated. Others feel they tied a better handle to pull a toy wagon when aged nine. I could tie more complicated knots myself having taken Macramé.

As for the ransom note, I think Patsy's name is written all over it with her past history of making up speeches for beauty pageants. She couldn't do anything half measure. I will also admit to thinking John Ramsey's sample of writing also looked very like the style of the ransom note.

One other strange fact we were discussing elsewhere, was why the police didn't ask the Ramseys how come they didn't search the windowless room themselves ... when they knew their daughter was supposed to have been kidnapped (?). Wouldn't parents search every nook and cranny in their own home, BECAUSE they are supposed to know the places children could hide in their own home?

 

John Douglas

Is about six feet four of walking ego. I don't know that he even works real cases anymore, he just does books and the lecture circuit. I saw him a few years ago and he said he'd be happy to talk about/take questions about the JBR case. But what he really wanted to do was give his opinion with NO contradiction from anyone.

The 350 man delivered the blow seems totally absurd to me. One really heavy object (mag light) swung in a downward arc from a height of maybe 5 foot 6 in. (around Patsy's height) connecting with an object (JBR's head, with her standing) would potentially (and it was) be fatal. I don't think it would even have to be swung that hard, those flashlights are heavy.

Since we have seen the horrible picture of JBR's skull, maybe someone could answer this for me: What happened to the piece of skull where the hole occured? Did it get smashed into her brain?

I don't think a flat surface, like the floor could cause that type of skull fracture. Of course, I'm no doctor - I don't play one on TV - so don't flame ME!

 

Vic I think you may have misread that statement--Wecht didn't say a 350lb guy dealt the blow--he said whoever dealt the blow did it with enough strength to kill a person wieghing 350 lbs. He also said Burke could have done it although he doubted it.

The skull to the best of my recollection, was intact but split indicating a lot of force behind the blow. I think the crack was something like 6 inches long.

 

Well, Duh

My bad. I did mis-read and mis-thought and mis-forgot, too I guess. I knew that

Still doesn't make it overkill, in my book...

Speaking of books, I looked up the head wound in PMPT. It says linear fracture 8 1/2 in. from the front to above her right ear. Near the back, a displaced rectangular section of skull, about 3/4 by 1/2 inch.

 

Elle

I can assure you that not only would I have waked my other child,or children,kept them close ,questioned them, but would have totally TORN my house apart trying to find my beloved daughter.I would have been at the bpd so often that they would have thought they had a new employee.I would have looked and searched everywhere that there was a place to look.

 

Gecko, Elle, I'm with youse guys. I would have looked till there was no other place to look. Hell, I did that at 4:00 this morning with my tortoiseshell cat that I realized was missing since 4:00 P.M. yesterday!!!! How long is that?? I woke up to potty and thought "this cat has STILL not been seen since yesterday" and I thought I locked her in the closet by mistake. Found her curled up in a ball in daughter's closet that has no doors so I was thankful. But yes, I agree with you. They didn't look cause they knew where she was. Just like I don't believe Patsy did that tiptoe act on the stairs over the note.

 

the ransom note on the floor

Strange how Patsy manages to step over the note; read just the first few lines and yet mention the ending SBTC Victory on the 911 call. Strange how the ransom note was then placed on the floor so that John Ramsey could read it. Huh? Steve Thomas asked who puts a note on the floor to read? Not a single print is found on the RN. I guess John or Patsy stepped over the notes and blew them one by one from the step to the wooden floor. They must have thrown away the doctor type gloves they used to write it (?). And elephants fly!

I'm with you girls, I would turn the house upside down just in case someone was playing games.
Glad you found your cat, Thor.

 

elle

Strange? You're right and strange doesn't even cover it. When you read the dippy, ditsy, full-of-holes Patsy rendition of "discovering" the ransom note, it either makes one laugh or cry.

And what is funny (not ha-ha funny, either) is that the "hop over the note" issue is not quite addressed in DOI.

From DOI:

"I hurry down the spiral staircase to the bottom floor and stop. What's this? I wonder. I turn around to look at three pieces of paper on a step near the bottom. I bend over."

Well, we all bend over and get screwed 'cause we will never get the truth, just self-serving crap from the Ramsey's as the "truth."

 

Just a note

Well I just WONDER which step it WAS on, near the bottom huh.

Think about this if a normal sized person were to lean over to place a note on some steps, they would not leave it near the bottom, per se. A normal person/killer etc, would lean over while standing at the foot of the stairs and place it higher up, would they not?

I used to put stuff on the bottom of the basement staircase to carry upstairs when I was ready to go up, and I would place the stuff there as high up as I could reach, so as not to forget it.

Dumb, dumb, and dumber played their special games with the ransom note.

Patsy said she would leave her purses on those same steps for Linda to clean out, wonder which steps she left them on, I am betting that Patsy's purses never made it up the stairs to the bedroom area.

Anyone reading that has a two story house, --- do you take your purse upstairs to your bedroom with you? I am betting that Patsy left those purses up higher than that danged ransom note.

 

Not me

Camper said:
Anyone reading that has a two story house, --- do you take your purse upstairs to your bedroom with you?

I can't think of the last time I needed to take my purse upstairs.

Ayeka

 

Two stories here

And the purse goes up - where my bedroom is.

 

ransom note on the stairs

Camper, Vic,

I know posters on all the sites have covered this
ransom note on the stairs, and of all the stairs the "foreign faction' chose to place them on, the spiral stairs are chosen. Not the front stairs; the kitchen counter; JonBenét's bed ... but the stairs right at the bottom of the Spiral Staircase(?).

Camper, I don't leave my purse on the bottom of our stairs, and the only one who cleans it out is me!!

The very fact Patsy left her purses on these same stairs for Linda to clean out, tells me she was in the habit of leaving items on these stairs; therefore the ransom note ended up there too. I personally don't think spiral stairs are practical in a house anyway.

I would appreciate it, if Cookie could confirm if the spiral stairs in the Ramsey home, December 1996, were carpeted, or wooden, or maybe even covered with a hard substance(?). In the video PMPT the hall floor under the spiral stairs was wooden, and Schiller aimed for authenticity here, but a few mistakes were made.

The camera doesn't linger on the spiral stairs as Patsy (Marg Helgenberger) is screaming at Officer French, but the hall floor was wooden in the movie.

BTW I did read these stairs were wooden, but I can't remember where I read it (?). :-( I was confirming this for a few poster friends who
felt the head injury came first, and the strangulation was part of the staging.

 

Schiller

Schiller says this in his book:

Patsy greets Officer French...John comes to the door soon after. They tell Officer French that JonBenet has been kidnapped and there is a RN in the back hallway.

Officer French tells the Ramseys to go into the sunroom and stay there???

Sooo John did not hand French the note, French went to the back hallway on his own. Did John Fernie arrive and read part of the RN before French?

 

another good question toltec........

but i dont have the answer to it.......

but it did make me think about this.

i wish there was a document that listed each minute or each event that night and day.....and compared it to each and every version that was written about the murder.

do you understand what i mean?

maybe some kind of document that you could click around on and
find every scenario that was reported...even the doi version.

wouldnt that be interesting to see and read???
i think so.

anyone up to that kind of documentation? or
does it already exist? point me the way.

but i'mmmmmm not doing it.......sometimes i have
problems just shampooing and rinsing my hair.

 

for Dr. Bea

what question havent we asked?

what question would use your expertise and help us solve some items in this case?

what is that question and answer???

thanks so very much.

purrfectly happy you are here to help us,
purr

 

Those Stairs

The back staircase was metal. It's the kind of one you see in many modern homes in order to save place. The stairs, metal as well, wound around in a tight circular direction. It also had a handrail. Never liked to walk down those stairs and when I did, I walked SLOWLY. I was thinking the other night about the ransom note and those stairs. It would have been very difficult for anyone to tiptoe over that note. There was no room! At the bottom of the staircase was a wooden floor.

 

Re: Those Stairs

Thank you so much, Cookie, for the confirmation
on these stairs, which have been bandied about like a rubber ball. I will very happily pass on this information to the people concerned. They have been seeking this information for quite some time. I sincerely hope this will help them.

I would think Spiral stairs in a home would be very dangerous. Just not practical.

 

Well,

that makes a lot of sense to me. Have friends that have a metal spiral stairway and their shepherd will go up it but not down... it almost makes you dizzy...

yeh, and Patsy read it while standing backwards....bwahhhhhhhhhhhhhh