Prior Sexual Abuse ... Key To Case?

No one believes there was adult penetration. There are many ways that an adult can molest a child. I am sorry for your godchild, that's terrible. At age 3? Horrible beyond belief.

What I must continue to wonder about is how Burke, if you postulate him as the molester, would understand specifically about the vaginal opening. You see, a child can see sexual acts and not clearly understand what is happening. Children can have their clothing off, even be acting out what looks like sexual intercourse, but still not understand just how the parts fit together. That kind of knowledge has to be imparted very specifically, with questions asked and answered, or the child must have been molested AND educated about that molestation.

If Burke really was doing that kind of molesting of his sister, then he was not in any way a normal 9-year-old boy, and my belief is that he would already have been involved in other incidents of molestation. It would not have just sprung up out of nowhere. Maybe he had done this before and it was covered up, but during the 10 years following JonBenet's death, someone would have come forward and talked about how Burke had done things to their child, etc.

It's much easier for an adult to cover their perversion than it is for a child to do so. Thatis why I do not believe Burke was involved in the killing either.

Heymom

 

Thanks Heymom.

Thanks you for your condolences about my G. Child. I posted the age wrong, She is 13 now, 8 when it occured. He got off with a slap on the wrist and Obstruction of Justice. He had 9 months to go on probation and his :Classes" end in a few weeks. But we are going to go to court again to try and get him jailed, he is 65 now. The horrible thing is there are 2 more reported cases in the same area against him, still he is not fined or in jail. He attempted to get a 7 year old into his car and the other girl he exposed himself too. The reason he was not jailed the first time for my GC is she said he touched her but never told of the rape. She was 8 and terrified as when her found out he couldn't perform the act on her without ripping her apart, her got up and pulled him pants up. She layed there shaking, he turned to her and said "If you tell, I'll kill you". He took a few steps and turned ti her again and said "Make that, I'll kill your whole family." She kept that a a secret for 5 years. One night she called me to talk and it was late, she was crying. She said she had something to tell her brother, he was 21 and died when she was 10. She said he would inderstand and help her. I told her, can you tell me, I will help you. She did. Her fear and wailing was so much to hear, but I have been with her alot since that late night call. She is strong now and looked at me and said, let's get this piece of crap. We are in the process. I took a terrified weak child into a crusaider of honor, Justice and SHE knows she is saving others. She is my hero!

 

Insight,

I was so sorry to come across that part in your post about your 8 year old God Child. Now that she is much older, I sincerely hope you will both work together, to get this old pervert known to the rest of the community. Keep on working on it. This will be punishment enough when everyone finds out about him. You will have to be careful, and watch out for him; especially when he made those threats all those years ago to your God Child.

 

Elle I- Thank you

Thanks Elle ! It helps me to get it out once in a while. I cried with her that first night on the phone and the next day when I saw her in person. After that I vowed no tears in front of her, I would teach her strenth. A few weeks later, She stayed overnight and she was cuddled up on my lap, we were watching a movie under a soft blanket. I thought she was going to break my neck she was holding me so tight. She cried herself to sleep right there in my arms on the my couch. I didn't sleep, I couldn't with a 13 year old on my lap. I just stayed up and held her. She hadn't slept more that 2 hours a night for those first 2 weeks at her home. That night at my house, She slept for 8 hours, like a infant, on my lap. In the past few months, we have worked hard, I am her teacher of getting Justice for her and all the kids. I have turned a child full of fear into the terminator. I love my work! I love the kids, followed the walsh story for along time. Also, JBR's. So...Now...Back to work on that little one in Boulder tonight! Thanks for reading.

 

It's nice this story has a good ending insight. I'm glad you feel better about releasing it. It is good you are there for this young thirteen year old.

 

Thanks again Elle~~

I am so glad someone wrote to me on my personal input. I know it is off the case, but it is an exact overtone to the abuse of children. :justice: I am , lets say, a person of psycology, My official is of 2 majors earned long ago. I wondered if anyone else here is of that "Type" as well? :blue: I can see things as they seem, and then reverse them to see what they are or are not. I love psycology. My health has pervented that for a while. So, now I just take angels under my wing. Am I :Sensitive, emotional, yes...but with a very open eye. One cries, the other looks for the reason. JBR was such a smart girl, she asked the garderner and others about things that adults ponder. I feel that she was SO independent, so unique, such a leader. I think her Mom was jealous of that. I think at 6 she said "I'm wearing this". It wasen't a question, it was a statement. If she were my daughter I would have said "OK... Why"? Just to hear her tell me, Love to know your kids!!. Then, wow... so that's your "Final answer"?? HEHEHE!! 3 Cheers for you my litle lady!!! What a big girl you are becomming. I am so proud of you! You already know what you want! SO COOL! BUT......Patsy probally said, NO, your wearing this!!!!!!!! I want you to match me!!!!!! Be ME!!!! YOU will be a REFLECTION OF ME! After all this IS "ALL ABOUT ME"!!!!!!!!!!! AND you are NOT allowed to be SMARTER! I hate this kind of NON MOTHERING, it is called "SMOTHERING". Patsy is doing her time, yep, right now with the :devil: Oh My.

 

INSIGHT, I'm with you too.

 

Thanks Punisher

Thank you. I am glad to see that I am not the only " winning for the kids " parent on the planet.

 

Have you ever suffered
20 any physical abuse?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Absolutely not.
22 TOM HANEY: In childhood, you know,
23 dating, your adult life?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: (NO AUDIBLE
25 RESPONSE).
0586
1 TOM HANEY: How about sexual abuse?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: (NO AUDIBLE
3 RESPONSE).
4 TOM HANEY: How about anybody in
5 your family ever suffered any physical abuse?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my
7 knowledge.
8 TOM HANEY: Your sisters?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my
10 knowledge.
11 TOM HANEY: Sexual abuse, have they
12 ever confided in you that--
13 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No. What's
14 this got to do with JonBenet?


Whenever I read this I keep thinking of PR's father...I haven't read much about him...anyone have any thoughts as to whether he could be involved in some way?

 

Amber's???... Anyone have an answer?

Hey Amber, how are ya! Yes, I fell this line of questioning had some-kinda bulk to it. Why would they keep asking Patsy about her father and sisters. I don't have anything solid there, but I bet the seniors at JJJ can help here. It sounds likely to me, but I have no proof. Maybe we will get some reply's.

 

Insight,

I have never understood this mother and daughter "dress alike" scene. It doesn't give the little girls a chance to think for themselves, and hypothetically, I have often wondered if little JonBenét started the anger which built up into a rage with Patsy Ramsey on that fatal night of the 26 December, 1996.

One thought came into my head. Patsy Ramsey may have paid her daughter back in full, for refusing to wear the red top to the White's party, and when returning from this party, she put the red top on JonBenét to go to sleep in, so that her daughter would waken up wearing it.

Once again, hypothetically, I can almost hear Patsy's thoughts. I'll fix you, seeing you wouldn't wear this today, you'll wear it now. Keep in mind that Patsy Ramsey did put her foot in it, and tell the police her daughter went to bed in a red top and long johns, but later stated it was the white top with the sequined star, to fit in with the crime scene, four months later, as she was interviewed by the police - having had access to the police reports.

This red top was found in a state of having been wrung out. Could it have been soiled when Patsy Ramsey went to waken up her daughter at the usual time, midnight, and Patsy dragged her out of bed in a rage? It's possible!

Imagine the rest of the scene, if you will?

 

Elle 1.. Yep.

That is why I wrote that there was a confrontation on Xmas morning RIGHT of the BAT! I also think this seperation JBR wanted was back building for a while with MAMA. As a 6 year old, you have your own likes, dislikes, things you want to do, things you dont. Also, Patsy's "Look-a-like-JBR-Doll" went over like a " BIG DUD". I bet that really _issed Patsy off again. JBR was growing, Patsy saw it as :Growing against or away from HER". She was VERY selfcentered and living her dreams through her daughter. I remember reading that JBR was not just loved by her mother, they were "Intermeshed as one"..UM... To whom? PATSY only. JBR was such an individual by 6 she was probally fighting all the things she didn't like, maybe the pagents, maybe the hair bleaching, maybe dressing like an older lady MAMA. Maybe she wanted to be a Tom boy, play ball, play in trees outside....etc..... I think the anger was there along time and exploded. Maybe JBR was slapped before! Who know's, right? She could have been shaken, slapped, pushed, pulled...you get the Idea. I get so upset to think this will not be solved no matter what. Maybe the trial will be in HELL, I know the killer/killers won't get outta there! That's all I can look forward to for our JBR , justice then.

 

I'm fine thanks

I guess the Don Paugh thing is a non-starter as there are no replies.

 

Don Paugh

I think he has been considered a suspect by just about everyone at some point over the years. I guess he gets forgotten about because he flew home the day before so he has an alibi. Maybe they were questioning PR about it because sometimes kids that are abused become abusers later?

 

I have nothing concrete, but I do think he was an abuser.

 

According to Linda Hoffman Pugh, JonBenét also gave Patsy a hard time when they had the Christmas party in their house on the 23 December. She did not want to wear the dress Patsy had chosen for this party, either. Like Steve Thomas, I think Patsy Ramsey was frazzled with all that had taken place before Christmas. Patsy was completely exhausted by the time Christmas Day arrived, and she still had to get through Christmas Day, and then face the flight to Charlevoix; the Disney Red Boat etc. I think Patsy's patience was worn thin.

 

Punisher

Ditto

 

Sorry I haven't responded in the last few days, but I haven't been on the forum much for personal reasons. Also, many of us get involved with other aspects of the case involving research and footwork, so to speak, so that keeps us too busy sometimes to keep up with the forum posts.

I just wanted to say I know it's hard to pour your heart out and meet with silence, but often, it's nothing more than people haven't gotten to your post yet, Insight. I still haven't read it, but look forward to doing so and promise to respond.

One thing I did get in a quick scan is the question about the grandfather, Don Paugh. You can do a search of his name in our search box and you'll find we have discussed him in this context. I particularly have brought in some info based on Marilyn Van Derbur's book, Miss America By Day, which is about incest and sexual abuse that has strong parallels to Patsy's life and history: beauty pageants, wealth, etc. She used to have a great website about her experience and book here: www.missamericabyday.com

 

KoldKase

Thanks for the last post. I do hope you can read my post, when you have time. It's Justice for innocent victims, the children. I could write a book on it, maybe 2. Love to write, I do poetry too. I plan to do one for JBR and post it here after I copywrite it. :justice:

 

First, the old guy who molested your god daughter? He's probably molested dozens, if not hundreds, of children in his life. They don't start at 65. Telling the child he would kill her, then her family, is a classic predator/pedophile technique to manipulate the victim. Children are so easy to frighten. It works all too well.

The facts are these, as research on this has become more available:

1. The most common age for females to begin being molested is 5-6 years old.

2. The molesters don't start in middle-age. The average age they start is teens to twenties, and they don't stop.

3. They get better as they get more experience. They learn what children to pick. They "profile" them, because they learn which kids are vulnerable, can be gotten alone, intimidated, etc.

4. They use various ways of getting to the victim: choosing a child who is accessible to them for some reason, as in family ties and trust, or a lonely or neglected child, giving the child attention he/she is not getting from other adults or kids, buying the child things, etc. They "earn" the victim's trust...and then use it against them.

5. They use various ways of controlling the child: threats, violence, fear, etc.

6. The average child molester will have molested literally hundreds of children in his life. Far and away, most are never caught, or they're protected or dismissed by family/societ when they are. It's something NO ONE wants to face and deal with, because of the shame, the stigma, and the cost.

7. When the pedophile starts molesting the small little girl, he doesn't try full penal penetration immediately, as it's not possible without hurting the child, tearing her, and thereby BEING CAUGHT. Usually they start with manual manipulation, using a finger to begin the process. (That's probably was what was happening to JonBenet, and full penetration hadn't occurred yet, but the condition of her hymen was such that it appears to have happened more than a few times, IMO.) This makes me wonder about how impatient the old guy was with your god daughter. Perhaps he didn't have access to her much? Just a guess.

I don't have sources to link for all of this, but if you google or do some searches, you'll find a lot of this information online and in books. We've talked about this for many years now, and again, if you go to this link, you can find out much more, with many sources: www.missamericabyday.com

One other thing, and I expect that you have already done this, since psychology is your thing, but you didn't mention it so it's important enough to make sure: contact your local sexual assault center and ask to speak to a counselor. These are located all over the country and almost every city of any size has one, or a regional facility, which can still help direct you to resources that will be invaluable to your god daughter, and also to you in helping her. They shouldn't make any demands, just offer services, and they're usually free of charge. It's worth a call. Even if you just call their hotline and have your god daughter aware of that resource. Those who work the hotlines also can help, even if it's just to listen when either of you feels then need to talk. It's all very confidential, as well.

Well, you probably know all that, but just wanted to be sure, because it's a difficult area and so traumatizing for the child, it's good to talk with those who know how to coach family and survivor to help them through the ordeal.

I am so sorry to hear about your god daughter. Five years is a very long time for a child to carry around that kind of fear and burden. I'm so glad you're there for her, and I hope she gets the professional help she needs to empower her to make the choices she has before her.