Psalms

I'm pretty sure that He was just the Moderator!

 

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> [Elle]:
One thing does trouble me, and that is would John Ramsey be so stupid to start molesting JonBenét on Christmas night, with the following morning being an early rise for all of them flying first to Minneapolis to pick up his son and daughter, John Andrew and Melinda, plus her fiance Stewart, and then to Charlevoix? To me, this doesn't add up. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Rashamon:
That's what has always been bothering me too. No, it doesn't add up.
This non-adding up even led me to theorize once that maybe the Patsy's rage attack was not connected to sexual abuse issues, but still John could have been his daughter's chronic sexual abuser with Patsy being unaware of it. Maybe when Patsy ran to him for help, it was he who suggested she stage a sexual predator scene because he wanted the signs of chronic abuse to be covered up.

For once you take possible chronic sexual abuse into account, this case becomes complicated because there are so many variables.

If JonBenet was the victim of chronic sexual abuse, then

- who was her abuser?
- was the abuser also the killer? (not necessarily)
- was her death connected to the sexual abuse? (again, not necessarily)

It can really make one's head spin. Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> [Elle]:
I also think Patsy Ramsey was a planner, and even if she had it in her head to sacrifice her own daughter for whatever reason, she would have planned it much better than this, and chosen a different time other than Christmas night, to do it, with this early flight the next morning(?) </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Rashamon:
Just my opinon too. A planned sacrifice does not fit into the Ramseys' schedule for the following day.
Aside from that, why on earth should Patsy get the idea to sacrifice her daughter? What was she to gain from that? We don't live in archaic times anymore where human beings were sacrificed to appease the gods.

Elle:
My head is spinning too, rashamon. I doubt we will ever know the truth. I do think Patsy Ramsey tackled this devastating tragedy in a theatrical way which came easy to her, whether her husband was involved with this sexual abuse of JonBenét, or some other member of the Ramsey family (?). She sure pulled it off, with the backing of the RST, of course.

 

With all due respect, it was the cream of the crop experts of the FBI CASKU unit who came to the conclusion that the ransom note was written after the fact, indicated panic, and was a cathartic act allowing the offender to undo the crime his/her own mind. These top profilers not only have a lot of experience with staged scenes, but also substantial and profound knowledge of psychology, Paradox.

 

Elle, One thing I CAN speak to - sexual abusers don't think in terms of time the way normal folk do. When a predator gets the urge to molest it really doesn't matter what day it is. They have an itch that has to be scratched, right that minute.

And, it may well have been that John was looking to a vacation crammed with lots of people, as well as the time on the Big Red Boat with it's tiny accomodations (and it doesn't matter if they had the Penthouse Suite...all ship staterooms are SMALL!) and realizing he'd have a hard time getting away with his actions for awhile. He may have felt more compelled to get in one last session with his "little Patsy sparkplug" before forced abstinance.

 

If you set up your own wickets and knock your ball through the wickets then you have knocked your ball through your wickets.

 

:toast: Couldn't have said it better myself!

 

I hear you Pearlsim, but I am still having trouble seeing John Ramsey in this role, for starters. I just don't think he was the culprit. Burke Ramsey was going on ten, and whose to say that he wasn't responsible, him and his friends whenever there was a chance (?). JonBenét was known to crawl into Burke's bed whenever she found she had wet her own. Patsy Ramsey mentioned this herself.

It's a well known fact, many women go after business men like John Ramsey, and being a CEO, I doubt he had to look very far for a companion. It just boggles my mind a man in this position stooping so low as to molest his young daughter (?). Oh yes, I know it happens, but I see him in the role of pursuing grown women.

I do think both Patsy and John Ramsey covered up for their son, using the broken paintbrush shaft to inflict more injuries in JonBenét's vagina, to make it look like a vicous attack by an intruder, after she was dead, of course.

Burke Ramsey was shunted out their home to Fleet White's home as fast as John Ramsey could get him out the door on the morning of the 26th December, 1996, so the police couldn't talk to him on the spot.

Repeat, I am not fully convinced that John Ramsey is the culprit here.JMO

 

This CASKU conclusion makes sense to me rashomon. It was absolutely ridiculous for Patsy Ramsey to write a three page ransom note, but being so damned dramatic, she almost turned it into a theatrical play, but Easywriter (Delmar England) and Cherokee analyzed this note so well, and proved it was Patsy who wrote it. Many of us on the board could even see Patsy Ramsey written all over that note and we're not experts.

 

Sacrifice?

Quite few days have passed since those times. The question you should ask yourself is why this is not done any longer today.

You forgot to take the cognitive aspect into account, for mankind has also developed cognitively since. Just as we don't worship things like the sun, the trees or the Golden Calf anymore, we have also mentally grown out of the idea that sacrificing people will appease god. No to mention that it would be considered as a capital offense by law.

 

Ransom note implicating Patsy

So true, Elle. Easywriter's (D. England) and Cherokee's analyses of the ransom note are simply awesome. Mark McClish's analysis on his 'Statement Analysis' site is also excellent.
I too had the feeling right from the start that only Patsy could have written that kind of note. I can see her in my mind's eye, sitting there at dead of night, in the kitchen illuminated by the flashlight only, writing the note. Writing the word "tomorrow" from her own writer's perspective, meaning 'when the night is over' ...

The fact that Patsy was among the few people who could not be excluded as the writer of the note only corroborates what these analyses have inferred: Patsy wrote the note.

I think it was Chet Ubowski from the CBI who said that if it weren't for the effort of the writer to disguise her handwriting, he would be 100 per cent certain that she wrote it.

 

I can see Patsy in my mind's eye too, rashamon. I can also see her laughing her head off at the capers of Lou Smit coming through the basement window. Good grief, that was some intruder. He really planned it well, didn't he?


Intruder:

Seeing I've never been in the Ramsey house before, I'll start from the bottom and work up. No point in using these expert tools I have to open a door. Too easy! I'll just have some exercise and lift the heavy grate up and take it from there. A piece of cake!

If Patsy Ramsey had been smart enough, she could have marketed another Cluedo Game. What a terrific house she had for the escapades. Maybe Jameson will come up with something(?).

 

Now, we are sophisticated, and we worship money, power, and fame.

 

And that was exactly the spider's net Patsy got herself caught in. Imo it was not any archaic impulse which drove her to 'sacrifice' her daughter to a god, but it was her frantic fear to find herself in a free fall from the top of society to the lowest of the low in the social hierarchy, ostracized by society (child killers) which drove her to stage the scene.

jmo

 

This type of interruption into the Ramsey's lifestyle just didn't happen to them. However, they were responsible for their daughter's death, and unfortunately everyone now knows that JonBenét was sexually abused, and people will always look at John Ramsey and wonder if he was involved. He can smile all he wants to in public, but he knows hundreds of people out there believe he was involved with the cover-up. This alone gives a certain amount of satisfaction to me. I can't imagine anyone having peace of mind carrying a burden like that around (?).

 

Elle...

What you posted concerning the intruder is right on.
Why would an intruder even think of entering the Ramsey home via a very inaccessable basement window when he/she could have much more easily broken a window or used a burgler tool to foil their locks and alarms?

How could the intruder possible have known that the basement window was not armed by an alarm system as well?

Lou Smit and a number of the other criminal "profilers" failed miserably when trying to put together the criminal profile that would fit JonBenet's murderer. The reason they failed is because there was not an intruder "out there" who had that kind of knowledge of the home, that kind of long term access to JonBenet (the long term sexual abuse that has been verified), that kind of knowlege of the family, witness calling John a Southern Gentleman and other familiarities in the note and with the type writing skills exhibited in the ransom note.

The "small foreign faction", along with the acrobatic, hairless intruder with time enough on his hands to write War and Peace for a ransom note, were all figments of Patsy Ramsey's creative imagination.

There are signs of extreme stress in the ransom note. Who wouldn't be stressed after accidentally murdering their daughter. Still, Patsy took the time to create a whole story of explanation, with a scenario complete with villians, victim, mystery and intrigue.

No kidnapper/murderer is going to take the time, and energy to compose a document like that. A kidnapper just wants the cash fast, no muss, no fuss, no explanation.
A murderer doesn't leave a heartfelt note explaining his feelings and concerns....He just leaves a dead body.

John's statement that this was an "inside job" is surely an understatement.

Paradox, I have never bought into the religious references in either the murder or in the explanatory ransom note. If Patsy wanted to perform a sacrificial murder of her daughter, it surely would not have been done without an alibi for herself and her husband and done in their own home....Patsy was a lot of things in her life-time, but stupid is probably not one of them....She always had a strong sense of self-preservation which a blatant self-incriminating religious child sacrifice in her own home would certainly have violated....

The SBTC reference that has been so much talked about as either an inadverdant reference to John or to a religious symbolism (saved by the cross), I have over the years, discounted as just a last minute, random choice of letters trying to reference or create some sort of investigative focus for a gang or revolutionary group trying to blackmail corporate American via kidnapping Access Graphics CEO's daughter for money.

I don't think those letters in actuality have any significance at all, though they have been investigated with such urgency and longevity.

A number of these issues have been talked about and argued many times over these 11 years...I have never changed my mind about my original thoughts concerning them though.

Voyager

 

Voyager, I tend to agree with you on the SBTC. While they could have some obscure reference, it's just as likely that Patsy called forth four random letters knowing it would confuse the dickens out of everyone. I even imagine she probably got a bit of glee out of reading all the earnest possible interpretations of her clever red herring.

My mother-in-law belongs to a philanthropic organization called PEO. No one is allowed to know what those initials stand for, unless you're part of the group. For years, my dear father-in-law loved to take wild stabs at what the initials could mean. I believe his favorite interpretation was, "Phyllis, Ethel, and Olive" - the three (imaginary) old ladies who probably started the whole organization.

 

Pearlsim...

Now you have got me started! Public Emergency Organization?

Voyager

 

Voyager

By the same token, Voyager, I agree with all you have to say here. There is is very little I could add to this accurate account. Wouldn't it be something, if we could just hear the truth of what really happened that fateful night?

 

No peace for John Ramsey

It gives me a certain amount of satisfaction too. For this high-profile case will be publicly discussed until John Ramsey draws his last breath. Just think of other infamous cases like the Manson murders or the Jeffrey MacDonald case which are also still being discussed on forums today, even after so many years.
The internet can be an excellent tool to prevent the JBR case form being forgotten. John Ramsey won't find peace, for he won't be able to sweep everything under the carpet and make others forget it, much as he would like to.

I don't think John will ever tell us the truth, not even on his deathbed. But what happened to his little daughter will always "be there" as long as he lives, wherever he goes and to whomever he talks. He may deny the truth in public, but he cannot run away from himself and the truth - for he knows what happened on that night. I believe he was at least involved in the cover-up of his daughter's death, if in not much more.