Ramseys meet with Boulder D.A.

koldkase · Feb 4, 2006

LurkerXIV said:

"I am surprised to learn that they were in Boulder," said former assistant BDA Bill Wise, now retired. "The fact that they met with the DA would indicate to me that they were comfortable with the fact that they aren't the focus of the current investigation".

Do I have to tell my Bill Wise story again? The man is a pervert and exhibitionist. No wonder he likes John and Patsy. :yow:
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Uh...YEAH! Was Wise the one hiding porn in his desk at work? So many pervs...so little time....

Little · Feb 4, 2006

Elle_1 said:

Yes, I know. I've heard all about that one too. Tea. I 'm just the same as anyone else here, throwing out ideas when they hit me.
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I know what you mean here Elle. Something will pop into my head and I need to check it off my list...again Anyway, I'm glad you tossed that into the mix because I couldn't remember whether or not the opened package of panties was part of the list of items taken in the search warrant. I didn't see it there, but then again, maybe they were picked up when Patsy's sister was permitted to ransack the crime scene, and the officer who was with her was told to not worry about what she was taking.

The Star claims John first told police he put a sleeping JonBenet to bed when the family returned from a Christmas party without reading to her. He reportedly later told police he read to the little girl before she went to sleep.

The same tabloid claims JonBenet was wearing size-12 underwear when her body was found, in spite of the fact she normally wore a much-smaller size 6. The report said the little girl was wearing size-6 "day-of-the-week panties" labeled for Wednesday when she was put to bed. The unopened package of size-12 day-of-the-week panties was reportedly in a drawer and had been purchased to give to another child. The Star said police believe the larger panties could have been hastily opened by Patsy in order to make sure the "Wednesday" label was showing.

According to the star, police said, "If a stranger had killed JonBenet, it would have been impossible for him to know where to find the panties." Patsy reportedly changed JonBenet's underwear because she had wet them.
Source: 7/5/1999 Patsy center of tab reports by B.J.Plasket
Daily Times-Call http://www.longmontfyi.com/ramsey/storyDetail99.asp?ID=46
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Meanwhile, authorities have not arrested anyone or named any suspects. But police have scrutinized the Ramseys' home in hopes of locating physical evidence related to the slaying. According to sources close to the case, items police searched for included:

Additional cord and duct tape. "That's one reason why police went back into the house a few weeks ago, because someone could have thrown those items down a hole in the fireplace," a source said.

Any blunt object. Investigators noticed a set of golf clubs in the hallway leading to the Ramseys' basement, but could not locate the putter, sources said. Authorities later found the putter in the Ramseys' back yard, sources said. Police also took a baseball bat from the home.

Clothing and fabric stained with body fluids. When John Ramsey discovered his daughter in the basement, she wore a white turtleneck, white long underwear and blood-stained panties, sources said. "The Ramseys originally said they last saw JonBenet wearing a red turtleneck and white longjohns," a source said. Authorities found the red turtleneck on JonBenet's bathroom sink.

Dark-toned fabric. Police noticed navy blue pillings - or fuzzy balls from cloth - on JonBenet's lower body, sources said. Investigators later found John Ramsey's dark-colored bathrobe on the floor of his home office next to a desk, sources said. "Some of the police thought the pillings could have come from the robe," a source said.
Source: Police search wide-ranging - Ramsey home checked for decorations, pornography By ALLI KRUPSKI Camera Staff Writer Friday, July 18, 1997
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/07/18-1.html
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"Patsy told police she didn't read the ransom note all the way through, but stopped at the words 'We have your daughter' before checking JonBenet's room and finding it empty," said an insider.

"But that was proven to be untrue recently by never-before-seen outtakes from a British documentary that the Ramseys cooperated with.

"In the outtakes, John was heard talking about the note: 'I can remember Patsy saying, "What should we do? It says not to call the police." '

"But how could Patsy know that if she'd read only the beginning of the note? The warning not to call police was buried halfway down the second page of the note."

Then there's the question of whether Patsy ever picked up the ransom note -- which is also bare of fingerprints.

"She told investigators she left it where she found it -- spread out on one step of a spiral staircase leading to the kitchen," the insider disclosed.
"But in the British documentary John said quite plainly, 'I came down and she had the note. I read it very quickly.' "

Yet another damning piece of evidence against Patsy was the panties JonBenet was wearing when her body was found.

They were printed with the word "Wednesday," the day on which Christmas Day fell in 1996. But they were a size 12 -- not JonBenet's size 6.

"Patsy told friends that she bought a set of 'day-of-the-week' panties for JonBenet and another set for an older niece," the insider revealed. "But JonBenet insisted on keeping both sets.

"Police believe JonBenet wore her regular 'Wednesday' panties on Christmas Day, but after the murder they were urine-stained.

"They think the little girl was re-dressed in the bigger panties after she was killed."

During a May 20 interview with investigators, the Ramseys' housekeeper Linda Hoffmann- Pugh "told them the larger panties were kept in a drawer and had never been taken out of their packaging before Christmas," said the insider.

"If a stranger had killed JonBenet, it would have been impossible for him to know where to find the panties."

And no intruder would open a fresh pack of panties to put on the victim, cops say.
Source: http://www.nationalenquirer.com/stories/news.cfm?instanceid=5447
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DNA may not help Ramsey inquiry
Samples found on JonBenet's clothing may be from factory
By Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain News
November 19, 2002

Investigators in the JonBenet Ramsey case believe that male DNA recovered from the slain child's underwear may not be critical evidence at all, and instead could have been left at the time of the clothing's manufacture.
In exploring that theory, investigators obtained unopened "control" samples of identical underwear manufactured at the same plant in Southeast Asia, tested them - and found human DNA in some of those new, unused panties.

If investigators are right about possible production-line contamination - perhaps stemming from something as innocent as a worker's cough - then the genetic markers obtained from JonBenet's underpants are of absolutely no value in potentially excluding any suspects in the unsolved Boulder slaying.

And, investigators know the DNA found in the underwear - white, with red rose buds and the word "Wednesday" inscribed on the elastic waist band - was not left by seminal fluid.

"There is always a possibility that it got there through human handling," said former prosecutor Michael Kane, who ran the 13-month grand jury investigation which yielded no indictments in the case, now almost six years old.

"You have to ask yourself the possible ways that it got there," Kane said, "whether it was in the manufacture, the packaging or the distribution, or whether it was someone in the retail store who took it out to look at them."

Another investigator with expertise on forensic issues, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity, confirmed the theory that the underwear DNA might be the result of point-of-production contamination.
And, wherever it came from, that investigator said, "We certainly don't think it is attributable to an assailant. That's our belief. When you take everything else in total, it doesn't make sense. I've always said this is not a DNA case. It's not hinging on DNA evidence."
Source: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/ramsey/article/0,1299,DRMN_1296_1554639,00.html
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Elle · Feb 6, 2006

Thank you for posting this information, Little. It is always good to go over it again, with so much to remember.

What intruder would take the time to redress his victim, Little? What would be behind an intruder changing the clothes of a little girl he had just killed? He wouldn't give a damn for starters. It is just too ridiculous for words. I think she was washed down and changed by Patsy.

I just took it for granted, the larger size panties were for wearing over the pullups if JonBenÃ©t was wearing them every day, according to Linda Hoffman Pugh. What mother would let her little girl keep a packet of size 12 panty, when she just wore a 6? This is nonsense. They would be round her ankles. A size 6 would be too tight over a pullup.

The pieces just don't fit into the Ramsey jigsaw puzzle, Little, do they?

Little · Feb 4, 2006

Elle wrote:

The pieces just don't fit into the Ramsey jigsaw puzzle, Little, do they?
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No they don't Elle, not the Ramsey's pieces.

Little

Watching You · Feb 6, 2006

Elle_1 said:

I replied to this post, this afternoon, WY, but I don't see it. I was thinking along the lines of Daphne White's underwear being still around. Maybe removed at bed time and forgotten about, with her DNA still on it. I take it that once clothes are washed, the DNA is gone (?).
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Surprisingly enough, Elle, sometimes DNA can survive the laundry. For the most part, washing clothing (or anything else, including a body) will usually wash away the DNA as well. However, there are cases, where under certain circumstances, DNA can survive - semen is one of those cases. Say if a man raped a victim, and the victim then washed her/his clothes because s/he didn't want anyone to know. Then, the victim changed her/his mind. It's possible that if the water wasn't above a certain temperature, some of the sperm may remain alive, and sperm = DNA.

The Punisher · Feb 6, 2006

DNA survived David Westerfield's attempts to dry-clean it.

Elle · Feb 6, 2006

Watching You said:

Surprisingly enough, Elle, sometimes DNA can survive the laundry. For the most part, washing clothing (or anything else, including a body) will usually wash away the DNA as well. However, there are cases, where under certain circumstances, DNA can survive - semen is one of those cases. Say if a man raped a victim, and the victim then washed her/his clothes because s/he didn't want anyone to know. Then, the victim changed her/his mind. It's possible that if the water wasn't above a certain temperature, some of the sperm may remain alive, and sperm = DNA.
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Oh for goodness sake, WY. I'm glad I asked you. I must get to know more about this DNA. I'm so lucky to have you here. That must have been quite an exciting job you had, when you worked for the DNA expert.

Elle · Feb 6, 2006

The Punisher said:

DNA survived David Westerfield's attempts to dry-clean it.
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Thanks Punisher. I'm learning more about DNA every other day. I'm so pleased to hear this. This must give the rapists something to think about, when they think they can't be found.

Watching You · Feb 6, 2006

The Punisher said:

DNA survived David Westerfield's attempts to dry-clean it.
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It surely did, Punisher. Obviously, the dry cleaner did not get out all the blood stain on the jacket and the DNA survived.

The Punisher · Feb 7, 2006

DNA's a funny thing, folks. There's nothing so tough and fragile at the same time.

Niner · Feb 10, 2006

Little said:

Dark-toned fabric. Police noticed navy blue pillings - or fuzzy balls from cloth - on JonBenet's lower body, sources said. Investigators later found John Ramsey's dark-colored bathrobe on the floor of his home office next to a desk, sources said. "Some of the police thought the pillings could have come from the robe," a source said.
Source: Police search wide-ranging - Ramsey home checked for decorations, pornography By ALLI KRUPSKI Camera Staff Writer Friday, July 18, 1997
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WOW!! This is NEW news to me!!

Elle · Feb 10, 2006

I just posted this today, Niner, maybe I should post it here. This was posted on the thread: A Little Quiz

<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1>A little bit more of the same ... ... Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">From the Bonita papers

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/for...388&postcount=4

During the vaginal examination, small dark colored fibers were found on JonBenetâ€™s external labia. A faint area of purple discoloration was noted on the right labia major. Vascular congestion was found along the inner membrane of the vaginal vault, and red water fluid, appearing to be blood, was present. The hymeneal opening had a mild abrasion, and the hymen appeared to have been torn. Dr. Meyer noted that the trauma to JonBenetâ€™s vaginal area was consistent with digital, rather than penile penetration. He was not able to determine if there had been previous trauma to the vaginal area. Dr. Meyer stated that it appeared that JonBenetâ€™s pubic area may have been cleaned, or at least wiped by someone using a towel or piece of clothing. Small dark blue fibers, consistent with a cotton towel, were recovered from the vaginal area.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

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