Remember the Hi-Tec Boot print? And partial palm print?

LOL,Shadow

using "Deep Throat" and "reveals himself" in the same sentence set off my funny bone, hahahahahahahaha.

Oh, nevermind.

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

LoL, WY!! Hey, I started to say "comes out of the closet" - probably even worse, don't you think?

I hope I'm not p*ssing everyone here off too much... I usually find myself agreeing with most of what is posted here. I just seem to have this hang-up with "unnamed sources"-- duh...

shadow

 

Shadow...this is a discussion forum...

...the entire point of discussion on newsworthy topics is to enrich one's ability to think through issues...learn about the things that you did not take into consideration...express and deconstruct moral and ethical dilemmas.

To discuss.

A "discussion forum" where only one opinion or point of view may be expressed amounts to not much more than a nasty nescient swamp populated with glassy-eyed mooncalves.

And, we know we don't want to go that route.

Lively discourse...that's what we're here for!

You keep our neurons on their toes, Shadow...and that's pretty valuable, in my book.

And...although in the case of these particular Ramsey case leaks, I tend to believe the source (not completely just because I want to) and that doesn't mean I don't clearly see your point as utterly valid...

...ususally, I'd probably agree with you on the credibility of leaks in general...they vary in verisimilitude.

I just have reason to believe these particular leaks.

And, you're right: without someone going on the record, these leaks are just teasers...but, they may be designed to lead the curious on an interesting investigative journey. ;o)

 

Thank you, I think, Dunn... some people here whose opinions I value a lot, based on their record of honesty and being right, seem to trust Charlie - as a consequence, I'm inclined to put more faith in his "sources" than I normally would. As I said, it's interesting stuff, but I don't think it will have any bearing on JBR's killer being caught. Hey, what the heck, if it agitates Lin Wood, his clients, and the swamp queen, you got to love it!!

I will give you a few examples of why I want something tangible to back up information reported by the media based on "unnamed sources:"

1) We are all aware of the "leaks" that made Richard Jewell and his Mother's life a living hell - those "leaks" were attributed to the Atlanta police, but I know for a fact that the FBI was also involved. After investigative reporters turned-up and reported all kinds of tabloid crap, it turned out Mr. Jewell was not the bomber, Eric Rudolph (still at large) was.

2) Dr. Lee's (DOE) life was all but ruined by "leaks" to that Liberal beacon the New York Times by the FBI, Justice Dept., head of the DOE, and Republican Congressmen. Dr. Lee made the mistake of taking "classified data" home on his lap top computer (this was also done at about the same time by none other than the head of the CIA), but turns out Lee was no spy.

3) We now have the FBI and Justice Dept "leaking" again - this time questionable information about Dr. Steven J. Hatfill, a man who at one time worked with anthrax. The jury is still out on this "leaking," but I think I will withhold judgement on the Doctor based on past history.

shadow

 

Re Charlie

I have a tendency to believe Charlie, primarily because for the longest time, he more or less, reverted back to sitting on the fence regarding the Ram's innocence or guilt.

In the beginning he and Dan Glick were hot on the trail of the Rams. Dan turned glossy-eyed over Patti and became a spokesman of sorts for the Rams, so I discounted him completely, knowing that he worked on the Ramsey (Tracy) infomercial.

Brennan, on the other hand, stood back from his initial stance and gave the Rams the benefit of the doubt. So, for him to come out now, with his "unamed source" holds some water with me.

Besides, all reporters, media, etc. knowing full well, the litigious arms of LinWoody & the Rams in the past couple of years, would be very wise to keep their sources close to their vest.

Notice how closed mouth all of the talking heads on TV are lately, regarding the Rams! I think it's wise that any thinking individual would NEVER reveal their sources. So what if they're leaks. Alex Hunter put a lifetime ban on the jurors, etc. so the only way info is likely to get out is leaks. Hopefully, they do come from the BPD and other reliable sources.

Sure hope there's a lot more leaks coming down the pipe. Makes our time here more interesting, no?

P.S. I cannot for the life of me, find the old mags/rags with the Xmas picture of Burke and the rest of the family. BUT, it was a very publicized picture in the first year or two. Melinda was in the picture and I think (not sure) that Jonbenet was wearing a velvet dress and was sitting on John's lap. Ring any bells?

Regards,
Mandarin

 

Geraldo

Did a segment tonight and Carol McKinley said the BPD asked Burkes friends and they said Burke did own Hi-Tecs....

 

Lots to respond to

The cover photo of McLean's book shows BR & JBR in matching plaid outfits (JB's wearing a beret). It's a closeup and the shoes aren't shown. However, Carlton Smith's "Death of a Little Princess" shows a pix from the same session where Burke is wearing hiking boots. It's an AP/Wide World photo. Wish I had a scanner, I'd like to know if anyone thinks it looks Hi-Tecky. (Might explain why Linda only used the closeup, haha!)

That's a great Peter B. flashback -- Kris Kristofferson playing Smitty. That was so surreal I expunged it from my memory. If that doesn't prove what a lunatic case this is, I dunno what does. And re the DeLorean, Smit might have gotten it cheap via a drug dealer car auction. But Dunv, you're right that it takes bucks to keep it going.

Btw, as far as Jams knowing what's what re the Rams or Smit, I think we can be sure all parties are only disclosing a small portion of anything to her. First, she's proven to be unreliable and emotionally ill-equipped to trust with anything important, and second, there's no upside to giving her more than is necessary. I think these last couple years have proven repeatedly how few scoops she has anymore and there has to be a reason for it. It all comes from Lin these days, and that's all public record. BFD. So when she talks about anything we have to question its accuracy.

Sometimes I think Jams and her Lowly Pigeon pal must be sweet on death row inmates because there can be no rational explanation for the cyber contortions they go through to defend the worst kind of perverts. Oh, and did I mention that the last place the FBI tracked Eric Rudolph was Hickory, NC, and we know how antiabortion Jams is! Just sayin'...

We should also realize that Charlie's source could have come from an enormous variety of places, not necessarily BPD or DA. Remember Charlie left his job to work with Schiller as a co-author then got Schillerized, or royally shafted, as happens with anyone Larry works with who is not named Norman Mailer. Charlie didn't know this going in and ended up with a "thanks to" in the credits, rather than the co-authorship he thought he'd get. The money he got for the long time he spent was probably about equal to what he'd have made at the paper. For a while he was floundering, it seemed. I mean, how desperate does one have to be to align with Shapiro for even an article?! And Charlie did something for the Dallas Morning News that PO'ed me a bit (I won't say what because it fuels my anger toward another person and that's unproductive). Anyway, here we are now, years later, and Charlie's gotta make a living. He's a good guy, a solid reporter, and just the kind of person who deserves an occasional bon-bon in the form of a hot tip.

Shadow, I'm fine with you being skeptical. I am too, maybe you've noticed. I agree with you about some of the cases you've cited from Hatfill to Jewell to Lee. It's apt in this case too -- if a prosecutor doesn't have his or her ducks lined up, keep a zip on it until it's ready. Personally I'm furious that Ashcroft can't find his tongue to scold Bushie for calling Alex Avila a killer, and for not refuting leaks against Hatfill, but he speaks up about naked statues and cats being a Biblical sign of Satan. Ugh.

In the matter of Deep Throat, that will be resolved upon the death of the individual. And it will be via phone records and other provable means, not just Woodstein's say-so. They'd know better than trying to pull off a shoddy reveal at more than 30 years later. Just wait.

The other items you cited are wild anomalies. Janet Cooke was seldom heard from before her Pulitzer Prize winning "drug kid" article, and not again after the hoax was revealed and her prize yanked. And Steve Glass's long list of BS was about topics that weren't especially important (I'm blanking on what they are now). I wish I could say that he's been punished for his perfidy but last week a film studio just decided to put his story on celluloid. Go figure. And in a case where a second-rate reporter stole material outright and got caught, Mike Barnacle is now a fixture on MSNBC. Talk about no justice. But again, he never was a reporter who mattered much.

But every day, in every paper and newsroom that juggles the big stories, the ones that really make a difference in trials, wars, business and gossip, unnamed sources are used. The reporter has to confide in an editor -- not only to get the story in the media, but also in case something should happen to the reporter (didja ever see "The Parallax View"?).

Charlie's story, IMO, is a major development. I hope this brings him good luck, but more importantly, I hope it turns up new leads for the cops so they can present a case to the DA and get this case in the courtroom. No lead, story or book is as important as the murder case.

Finally I will say HAHAHAHAHA to VP. Your description of Mamesey Ramesey made me wet my Depends. In going through the books to look for the BR pix, I noticed in Singular's there was a foreward where he stated that the book was basically nonfiction. That, wouldn't it be interesting if true? And upon that great fountain of fact is what made the Gullible Google Girls Go Ga-Ga. Idiots, the lot of them!

 

Cookie, if you're reading here, I'd love to get your take on this latest stuff to come out.

 

IMO the psychology of what happened between Lou Smit and the Ramseys is pretty simple. Walk a mile in Lou's shoes. This is going to sound presumptuous since I don't know the guy but here's what I think based on what I've read.

Lou is an elderly man who is basically watching his wife die a slow lingering death from cancer. Imagine the horrible stress the guy must be under and how painful watching your spouse wither like thatmust be. I would guess he feels sad, powerless and miserable, despite putting on a brave face. I'm sure his belief in God is about all he has to hang onto. By all accounts Lou Smit was an extremely religious man.

So suddenly into his life walks Patsy Ramsey. Here is this beautiful, flirtaceous beauty queen in themidst of a whirlwind of contorversy, misinformation and scandal. The first thing Lou tries to do is get close to her as he has in other cases with other suspects. She flirts with him, which I'm sure is something that hasn't happened in many, many years. Remeber her disarming Tracey the first time she met him by calling him "handsome" and baking him cookies?

It's not much of a stretch to imagine Patsy working the same con job with a vulnerable Lou Smit. Then he discoveres she was "cured by God" of the same malady that is killing his wife! Suddenly, Patsy, oozing charm and sex appeal, starts to help Lou with what he's going through, giving hime hope where he didn't have hope before. Then the religious stuff kicks into over-drive and suddenly Patsy and Smit are sharing a bond few people ever experience. She swears up and down she didn't kill her daughter. Patsy is a victim and slowly over time Lou becomes her defender and Knight in Shining Armor.

I don't have to tell you women that men are, by nature, simpler creatures. I think the reason so many women despise Patsy is because they see how manipulative she is, and how she gets her way with men by being beautiful anf flirtaceous. Women, I'm sure, can't believe that men don't see in Patsy what they see in her. Patsy plays men like a fiddle and most of the time they don't see it at all.

Even though I can't stand JR and kind of like Patsy, I can see she is every bit as cunning and manipulative as he is, maybe more so. Everything from the pageants to the big house to the life coach to the fancy parties is all a put-on to make Patsy look better than life. I don't believe she's evil--I just think she learned some manipulative life skills very early on and it got her the millionaire and the mansions. Patsy Ramsey can charm a snake.

that is IMO what happened to Lou Smit. The guy was a good investigator by all accounts but once he crossed paths with the great manipulator he changed forever. I have two cop friends who have worked with him and I asked both point blank if they thought Smit could be lying just trying to get close to the R's, to maybe get a confession. Both were adamant that that was NOT the case. He BELIEVES it. The con job is complete.

 

BobC

That is exactly what I've always thought, too! I remember ST talking about Patsy trying to use her "charms" on him, too. But he didn't have all the vulnerabilities that Smit had, which by the way you laid out perfectly!

Nothin' like some old time religion to blind some people and he was an easy mark. Is Smit's wife still alive? If so, is she cured, too?

And yes, guys are pretty simple and straightforward, that's why some can be taken advantage of. Patsy offered him everything but sex.

 

Knowing men (ahem)

as I do, BobC, I have to agree with you, but I'm a woman, so I see Patsy as something else.

I never thought she was beautiful, so that does not even enter into my thoughts on Patsy. She is attractive and, as you say, manipulative. I can see where a man might melt under her spell (gag), but as I said, I'm a woman, and I see right through the phoney beech.

Patsy's not slick. She's not charming. She's phoney as a three-dollar bill. I suppose if one were a snake (like some men I know, haha), the saying "she could charm a snake" would hold some substance. However, I'm not a snake, I'm not a male, and I'm sure as he11 am not stupid. I'm not impressed by her sex appeal (what sex appeal?) or her southern charm (gag again).

But, you are right. There are indeed women who can con a man into believing everything she says, not that I ever did anything like that, LOL, but sometimes, men are just so easy.

There is a lot more that can be said about this, but suffice it to say Patsy would never have gotten away with her southern charm bullshirt with most women, who would have seen right through her fake demeanor.

Having said that, I am still stunned that a "seasoned" detective like Lou Smit fell so under her spell that he could dismiss real evidence in favor of anything that would keep the Rams out of prison. I wonder if it may have had more to do with the religious aspect of it than her charm, one good Christian to another. Praying together in that van the very first time Smit met the Ramseys was just ludicrous. He was a goner after that.

I suppose there are some women who may despise Patsy because she is manipulative with men, but that's not why I despise her. I just think she is phoney and tries to manipulate everyone, not just men. I also think she had something to do with the murder and coverup of same of her daughter.

 

WY--you are HILARIOUS. I think women see through women and men see through men. It's a fact. If I had a dime for every time some dummy female friend of mine told me a story about some obvious chicanery that her MAN was doing, and me just about bursting out laughing at how obvious the guy was, I'd be out of credit card debt!

Tez--I saw Patsy try to charm ST with my own eyes! Remember that debate on LKL where ST and JR were about to exchange blows, and Patsy just hurled herself across the table beseeching him to "work together?" I just about died! I was like--this woman has no shame whatsoever! SHAMELESS. And the way she was kind of defending ST--didn't she say something like that ST was just a "mistaken young man?" Something like that. I was thinking good GOD this woman never stops pretending!

The con job Patsy pulls, which almost always works on macho guys, is she acts all helpless and defenseless and dumb which appeals to the guy's macho urge to protect her. Man, Patsy is world class in that department!

 

BobC,

Love your evalutation of Pats and Lou, and men and women in general. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Charisma...that's what Pats has. I believe from what I have read that Pats has an effect on women, too. Certainly not all women. Her control issues seem so very nicely laid between her manipulations, that perhaps most women recognized their internal Bullshirt Beepers were going off, but had to be separate from Pats before they realized her 'charms' might be more sinister, selfish, and controlling.

Seemingly, she is an odd bird that intitially appears to be harmless and a dyed in the wool do-gooder...until you cross her, THEN it probably becomes quiet apparent that it is HER game and noone else's.

On the outside looking in, yes, most women would gag. Men, on the otherhand, IMHO, are amused by women who like to power-play. Add a few batting eyelashes and a sweet smile?...men are very vulnerable, bless their pants, I mean hearts.

Mels

 

Patsy DOES seem to ellicit a gag reflex in most women which I think is fascinating in a car accident kinda way.

Patsy can manipu;ate women too. I remember two different friends of hers telling me this story about how poor clueless Patsy asked a group of friends to explain what oral sex was or how to do it (something like that). This is one of my favorite stories. You'd think Patsy'd have the cognitive skills to uhhh figure it out herself but no the poor thing was clueless.

Here's the killer part--I assumed both of these friends were talking about the same incident but only later did I find out that friend one never met friend two and they were talking about two seperate incidents! Then when I found out she'd even asked LHP yet a THIRD TIME, well either Patsy is senile or she was putting on a show! How quaint and virginal! The wierd part was that from what I understand all the dummy women thought it was ever so cute and darling. I was sitting there thinking a 36 YO woman doesn't know what oral sex is--nobody's that stupid.

True story. Upstaged only bythe rack of lamb/finger sandwiches story. Pure patsy.

 

We have shoe pictures

Thanks to a special forum friend.

 

Closeup of Patsy and Burke

Their feet could be close enough in size to trade shoes.

 

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Any Hi-tec experts on board?

 

Hi-tec shoes

"Mojo"