So I bought a copy of "Mind Hunter"

:floor:

How many husbands have suffered now from the deeds of the Ramseys?

 

The way I read this it is Elizabeth Vargas who is saying that "sources" say that Mind Hunter was among the many books collected from the Ramsey home. She doesn't name any sources but would seem to have some information about the books collected from the home.

Little

 

LOL...I am sure quite a few. Heck...they deserved jail time just for THAT!!!!

 

Also, sources say as many as 250 books were cataloged and photographed from various rooms in the Ramsey house in the event they yielded possible clues.

I want that catalog.

 

Quotes from Mind-Hunter

"This was a high-risk crime and a low-risk victim." p. 162. He is saying it's the kind of crime that is too high-risk to the criminal to commit - the parts are not adding up to the kind of crime that is supposed to have taken place. He's not specifically talking about JonBenet, obviously, but to invade a house to kill a little girl would be extremely high-risk, I would think.

"The penetration with the umbrella and the pen were acts of sexual substitution. Quite clearly, the adult male we were looking for was an insecure, sexually immature, and inadequate individual." p. 162. JonBenet had been penetrated with a broken-off paintbrush, I believe in an attempt to show that this sort of person was her murderer.

"I explained the difference between posing and staging. Staging, I said, appears in crimes where the offender is trying to throw off the investigation by making the police believe that something happened other than what did, such as when a rapist tries to make his intrusion look like a routine burglary. That would be an aspect of MO. Posing, on the other hand, would be signature." p. 256. This quote shows that Douglas knows what staging is, so for him to look at the crime scene of JonBenet and say that it was an intruder is ridiculous.

"...the object was not to wash away clues or evidence, as we were seeting in Atlanta, but to "stage" the crime to look like something other than what it actually was. Then I said that they had already undoubtedly interviewed the killer. He was in the neighborhood or immediate vicinity. This kind of crime is almost always a neighborhood or household crime. People don't travel long distances to commit them. If he got blood on him, which he most certainly did, he had to be able to go someplace close by to clean it off and get rid of his bloody clothing." p. 270. Again, Douglas knows what staging is, especially when the crime is one where the murderer takes his time to do the act.

"As in so many other cases, the more an offender does at a scene, even if it's an attempt to throw the police off the scent, the more clues and behavioral evidence he gives you to work with." p. 271. If only BPD hadn't totally screwed up the crime scene and ignored standard police procedure...

"His staging was poor and shows he's never tried to do it before. However, he does have an explosive, assaultive personality, so he could have committed lesser crimes." p. 271. I wonder how poor the staging of JonBenet's murder seemed to the CBI?

"...his use of wire to bind her suggests shop training or one of the vocational trades." p. 271. So maybe the use of soft cording with JonBenet suggests a college-educated murderer who didn't want to hurt his victim or her body too much?

I'll go into another post for the next part.

 

Chapter 15 - "Hurting the Ones We Love"

The first case in this chapter is a woman whose little boy has supposedly been abducted. I will just type it in and let you read for yourself.

"On the 911 tape, she disctinctly says that someone 'kidnapped' her child. It's been Gregg's experience that parents will do almost anything to psychologically deny such a horrible situation. In the heat of hysterical emotion, you might expect to hear her say he was missing, he ran off, she doesn't know where he is, or something like that. For her to use the word 'kidnap' at this stage suggests she is already thinking ahead in the scenario that will play out."

"Basically, children are abducted for one of three reasons: they're taken by kidnappers for profit; they're taken by child molesters for sexual gratification; and they're taken by pathetic, lonely, unstable people who desperately want a child of their own. The kidnapper will have to communicate with the family, either by phone or written message, to set out his demand. The other two types want nothing at all to do with the family. None of the three merely send back an artifact to let the family know the child was taken. The family already knows that. If there is to be some proof of the legitimacy of the crime, it will accompany a demand; otherwise, it's meaningless."

"What Gregg decided the mother had done was to stage a kidnapping according to her perception of what a real one would be like. Unfortunately for her, she had no idea of the actual dynamics of this type of crime, and so she blew it." p. 286.

"The child was found buried in the woods in his snowsuit, wrapped in a blanket, then completely covered with a thick plastic bag. A kidnapper or child molester would not have taken this much care to make him warm and 'comfortable,' or to try and shelter the body from the elements. While many murder scenes show obvious and prolonged rage, and dump sites often show comtempt and hostility, the hallmarks of this burial were love and guilt." p. 287.

 

Coming next - another staged murder

This time, the husband kills the wife and mother and hides her body in the crawl-space outside the home.

Gotta get some more coffee first.

 

From "Hurting the Ones We Love" Chapter 15

This is about Linda Haney Dover, who was killed by her husband Larry.

"They find Linda's body, wrapped in the comforter from the bedroom, with only her head exposed, in the outside crawl space under the house." p. 288.

"But the crime had too many staging elements, which made me lean toward the second type: someone who knew the victim well and therefore wanted to divert attention from himself. The only reason a killer would have felt the need to hide the body on the premises was what we classify as a 'personal cause homicide.' The trauma to the face and neck seemed highly personal, too." p. 289.

"The staging had its own internal logic and rationale. Whoever had brutalized Linda did not want to leave her body out in the open where another family member - particularly her son - might find it. That's why he took the time to wrap her in the blanket and move her to the crawl space. He wanted to make this look like a sex crime - hence the raising of the bra and exposure of the genital area - though there was no evidence of rape or sexual assault. He thought he had to do this, but still felt uncomfortable with police seeing her bare genitals and breasts, so he covered them with the blanket." p. 289.

I found this chapter very interesting, to say the least.

 

A tidbit later in the book, from a chapter called, "Anyone Can Be a Victim."

"Bombers and extortionists typically use the word we in their communications to imply a large group watching from the shadows. The fact is, though, most of these people are suspicious loners who don't trust others." p. 331.

"Like most bombers, he (the Unabomber) referred to a group (the "FC" or "Freedom Club) as responsible for his terrorism. Still, there is little doubt he is the type of loner I described." p. 332.

"What's the difference between this type of individual and one who actually does kidnap? They're both in it for profit, so neither one wants to expose himself to the victim any more than necessary because killing is not part of the aim. The big difference is that the true kidnapper will generally need someone to help carry out his scheme, and while the simple extortionist is bascially a clever con man, the kidnapper is a sociopath. Killing the victim is not his intention, but he is clearly willing to do so to fulfill his goals." p. 334-5.

Those are the main paragraphs that jumped out at me as I read this very long and self-aggrandizing book. You can give me your thoughts on their relationship to the staging of JonBenet's death.

 

This is the murder referenced in the later Douglas book, smack in the middle of the JonBenet murder chapter.

So even Douglas related the two murders on some level, though he seems to have mentally blocked what his own brain was telling him....

 

Alas, Paradox, I'm fairly certain that Boulder DAs for decades to come will prevent anyone from seeing these pictures. Other than the RST/Smit cronies, that is, and they make sure nothing gets out of their little obstruction of justice circle but what they choose and edit to prove the Ramseys are innocent.

Rest assured that the case files will disappear, in part or entirely, if they haven't already. Like the Black Dahlia murder, too much to hide.

 

Also, the books in the home were not sitting on John Ramsey's bedside table, as "Mind Hunter" was. Maybe some relevance, but not as strongly relevant as Douglas' book is.

 

Oh good grief...this was all in Douglas' book...that John had?? This should be a red flag...in and of itself. And the only reason that Douglas, says that an ntruder did it, when referring to the JB case...is because he knows that John bought his book. IMO

 

Why did John HAVE this book in the first place? It seems that he got ALOT of ideas from it. Okay, so Douglas says that an intruder....killed JB....BUT...take a look at what he says..."The child was found buried in the woods in his snowsuit, WRAPPED IN A BLANKET.......A KIDNAPPER OR CHILD MOLESTER would not have taken this much care to make him warm and 'comfortable'" Okay...so, JB was not only ALSO wrapped papoose styled (as John described)in a blanket....but she was also wiped down..and redressed. And Douglas still thinks that an intruder did it? Is this a double standard or WHAT? What does Douglas have to gain from this?? Obviously its something. Well, IMO...placing JB in a WC, instead of outside in the elements....was also not from contempt or hostility....but from love and guilt.

 

Yep, John got some pointers from that book. Now I am wondering if JB's murder was pre-meditated...I had NEVER thought that before, until reading these passages. And the fact that he would have that book in the first place...and the staging in the book is so similar to JB's....I think its more than ironic.

 

Ames, I don't think it was pre-meditated, but John did have at least some of the book read, and I'm sure the staging was influenced by the cases Douglas describes.

 

Well, I don't really think it was either....I just was trying to figure how why John would have such a book in his home. He FOR SURE got some of his ideas from that book, and this in itself, imo...would be circumstantial evidence. Heymom, do you care if I post these passages from MINDHUNTER...over at WEBSLEUTHS??? I have been telling the folks over there about them...and how the passages talk about everything from staging...to lovingly covering someone in a blanket...to staging a sexual assault, and feeling uncomfortable about it, to the point of wrapping the person up in a comforter from the bed. If you don't want me to...I understand.

 

So, a book John was likely to have read has elements in common with the crime.

Biblical literature that both could have read has elements in common with the crime.

Literature that Patsy was intimately involved with has elements in common with the crime.

A collaboration could account for the mix of elements.

But John would have no reason to be familiar with the literature Patsy used and he would have no reason to ok it's use in the crime. And some of the elements of literature used in the crime were used before the death, and those came from Patsy's side of things.

The fact is; Patsy had access to John's crime books and movies as John had access to her literature.

And it is more likely that Patsy read and viewed John's stuff than the other way around.

I'm always glad the subject of books comes up, but the more you look into that the more things point to Patsy and away from John.

Had the Boulder LE followed this lead further things might have gone differently instead of being just another subject languishing in this forum.

 

No, please feel free to put them up. I just transcribed the passages that stood out for me as being related to the whole crime scene. But don't expect to convince anyone with your efforts...

 

And like The Ripper case. Too much to keep track of (while keeping busy chasing perfection in Boulder. AUM, AUM, file, file, AUM.)