Talk to Us Then, Linda!

Shadow

I deleted my post because I didn't want to cast aspersions, but I'll stand by the content.

Hunter was a good person in a huge case who had the wisdom to ask for help from the very best sources. This is not just my opinion, it's the view of most forensic professionals who try murder cases day in and out. I believe there will come a time when Hunter's work product will speak for him.

Thomas was an arrogant amateur who thought he had all the answers. The harm he brought to the case is immense but not unrecoverable.

Shapiro was too inexperienced to even know what questions to ask.

In the end, our opinions don't matter -- only peers can judge. I know that when there are medicolegal, law enforcement or journalism seminars aspects of this case are presented and debated with vigor. When I've spoken to DAs with major case experience, who understand Ramsey, they appreciate what Hunter did and --importantly-- what he didn't do, which was rush into court with a weak case. Similarly homicide cops who are asked to comment on Thomas' attitude and writing are usually appalled.

 

shadow

shadow - I don't recall you differentiating once source from another, nor identify any source. Might be bad memory on my part. All I know is that I remember one day you said you couldn't trust your source(s) and wouldn't be posting tips any longer. As far as I recall, you never did post another tip/opinion from him/her/them. That's where I'm coming from. If my memory is wrong, I apologize for ribbing you. But that is all it was, a ribbing, not an attack nor a call not to believe you now or in the future.

 

Yeah, right Fly

Fly swatted:

"shadow - Rather amusing to remember that you quit posting the information from your FBI source because the info had so frequently been worthless, and now see you claiming the tips were gold. LOL I guess those were the exceptions to the rule?"

This is your idea of just joking?

"Frequently worthless" to you "think" that there was "one day" that Shadow posted/admitted right away that one source he had was incorrect?

You're right, that is funny, because now the joke is on you.

RR

 

Thanks for your support, RR! However, while fly’s post did seem to have kind of a “nasty spin†on it (maybe he writes political campaign adds) I really wasn’t upset by his post. It actually was based on some truth…

After attending a meeting at Quantico, a couple of other Gov contractor employees, a couple of FBI Agents, and I stopped to have a few beers at a local “watering hole.†The JBR GJ was going on in Boulder at the time and the case came up. The Agents said that Patsy Ramsey would be indicted in just days. I rushed home and eagerly posted this “inside†information at the JW Forum. The next day, I mentioned what I was told (and had posted) to my in-law FBI source and he told me it was “BS,†no one was going to be indicted. I immediately corrected the post, and accepted the abuse that I so richly deserved for several days. As I recall “my good friends†Lake, fly and others questioned why they should ever believe anymore of my “inside information.†I agreed with them and allowed as how I would post no more “tips or rumors.†Others posters (including BobC), however, said that I should continue to post my “tips and rumors†because they trusted that I would correct any mis-information as I did in this case.

I did stop posting information at the JW Forum from my two <b>always-reliable</b> FBI sources not too long thereafter - not because their info had suddenly become “worthless,†but because the FBI became less and less involved after the GJ ended and they had nothing to tell me of any value. Later, one (the in-law) became seriously ill and ultimately died while the other left the Bureau. And, yes, what these twoguys told me was always “gold.â€

 

your aim's not true

RiverRat - You can believe that my intentions were whatever you choose. However, the truth about my intentions is what I've posted.

Shadow has confirmed that he got disgusted with his source, which is a primary basis of my comment. I clearly recall him saying that he wasn't going to post tips again because of that.
Unless shadow regularly differentiated the sources for his tips and indicated one and only one source was a bozo and would be banned, my comment is still appropriate. If my memory about the information provided back then about the number or sources and the general identity of the source relative to a particular tip (especially the worst one) is incorrect, I've offered my apologies to shadow.

(with apologies to E. Costello)

 

Sure Fly

That was no attempt to cast doubt on Shadow's credibility.

The stories that Shadow repeated here for us as a refresher was definitely not the lone situation that you had to bring up.

Sorry, but I'd hate to lose the guys again because of that old trick.

 

Peacemaker, moi

I don't think we're too far apart on this thread. People with sources post to the best of their ability, based on what is in the air at the moment. I appreciate that Shadow has done that in the past, and that others have as well. If an error pops up, it gets cleaned up quickly. No need to rub any noses in the mess. I think it's gracious when people share info they can, and I understand the joy that comes from being able to share.

Shadow, now that your FBI guy is dead can you say what division he worked in? That might account for how various bureau guys could have differing opinions. For sensitive and ongoing investigations, there is utter compartmentalization and no one outside that case would likely be privy to details. As an example, a special agent working the Gaddis/Pond case might not know any details about the Bish case, even though the bureau and the kidnapping division, in particular, might be helping on both.

I still laugh at Holly who invited some bureau guy to her BBQ thinking he'd share details. Even if he had inside info he wouldn't share, but most probably he had no clue about the Ramsey case other than what he read in the press.

 

I still

laugh at Holly, too.

 

ditto

.

 

FedoraX - deceased in-law worked at FBI headquarters in D.C. in a Lab. I'm not sure which one, but one of the things he did was travel around the country and help recreate crime scenes - for example, he helped create a scale model of Deleany Plaza in Dallas following the Kennedy assasination. Since he helped on cases all over the country, he had numerous connections throughout the Bureau even after he retired.

I should note that my in-law and I discussed lots of stuff that he said was "between us" which I have never told anyone - even Mrs shadow. I can tell you that he thought J. Edgar was a little dictator and did not like him...

Hey, WY, I remember that get together too... as I recall it was immediately prior to the MW/FW fiasco.

 

Hi Shadow

Actually what I said was--if the ingrates at JW didn't appreciate what you bring to the forums, then just tell nosy people like me via e-mail! I am all ears! BFD if every so often a red herring comes along--that's part of the fun of trying to seperate the good info from the bad! After all, look at the hours of fun we had with Mystery Crackpot! On second thought--never mind!

 

Awww, Shadow

RIP, your FBI FIL! Anyone who studied Dealey Plaza is OK by me. Do you know when that study occurred? Late '70s, maybe? Or was he part of the original investigation for the Warren Report? How exciting.

 

Well, FedoraX...

they ain't all gone... got a few more sources, but not nearly as "tuned-in" nor as trustworthy. One of my bosses' husband is an Agent, but info is at least second hand since whatever I get is from her, not him. Also, I helped develop a business system for the Justice Dept many years ago - I still have some "inside" contacts there, but we don't stay in touch as much as we used to.

To answer your question - In-law was part of the original investigation for the Warren Report... he told me that he ran strings on the model from where the shots came, as well as from other potential shooting locations. He was also part of the team that test fired the rifle. After he retired from the FBI, he told me that while it may have been possible Oswald did the deed by himself, he did not think it was very probable that one lone shooter killed Kennedy. He said that at the time of the investigation, Hoover wanted a "lone gunman" and if you didn't want to be transferred to Alaska or look for another job, it was a "lone gunman."

Here's another funny story he told me - after he retired. During the 1960s, he helped design and build a circular "war room" in NYC where Hoover and his right-hand men could watch demonstrators on closed circuit TVs - Hoover's chair was in the middle of the room. In-law caught hell because it wasn't higher than rest of room. He had to build a one-foot high platform on which Hoover's chair sat.

He told me many, many funny stories - we had even talked about colaborating on a book about his career, but nothing ever came of it. Too bad!

Yeah, Bad Bob, I remember what you posted, and I remember emailing you some tidbits...

 

Your FIL...

...sounds like a great fella. I've seen B&W pix of the FBI guys doing the string trajectory tests, but can't recall specifics like facial features.

That's funny about Hoover's snooping room -- you know he wouldn't let his driver make left hand turns.

Wish you had a chance to debrief him on tape or that he had extensive diaries. I'm interested in anything from that era, and he sounds like he had a rational view. Lots of guys keep quiet cause they don't want to lose their pensions.

Did he ever mention Mark Felt or "Deep Throat" of Watergate fame?

 

Shadow I long ago stopped posting anything I find out on these forums for just that reason. Even though I used to start every post with "you never know if this stuff'll turn out to be true so take this with a grain of salt" yet that never seemed to matter. I recall one time finding out that semen was on the body, and I told exactly one person privately, and then the "semen" turned out to be dried blood. To this day I still get reminded of that by this "friend." If you look in the ST book you'll see the cops thought it was semen but testing showed otherwise.

Another time when I said "Buckle your seatbelts"--and that's ALL I said--I was told Hunter was gonna make an big announcement that afternoon so I put that hint on the forum. Well Bob Grant made an announcement which was a let down because it was one of those times when he just said "we have more work to do" and suddenly I was being attacked because of what certain marginally intelligent posters read into my statement.

Sooooo--I now have about ten internet friends who I know I can trust to tell things to, and vice versa. It's not worth the aggravation to post things at this point. Even the things I pass along to my buds is filtered through a pretty solid BS detector...

 

Dear BobC

Please notice that I referenced not wanting to lose "The Guys again - meaning you AND Shadow - it's bad enough that you are hesitant now due to the actions of "The Others" - I am praying that this forum is doing well at distinguishing itself from "The Way They Were" and that you will both feel more at ease in this enviroment.

Thanks Fedorax for the Mediation!

 

BobC & RR...

BobC I never gave you any trouble about your "Buckle Your Seatbelts" posts, but I've always regreted joking about your leaving the JW Forum. I had no idea that you would really leave, and was very sorry to see you go. When you left, I felt really, really bad about "kidding" you about leaving. Later, when the MW/FW crap got to be unbearable, I left (and understood even better that there is a point where you just say "screw-it").

RR, I'm sure that Bad Bob appreciates as much as I do your concern that we (the men) don't get disallusioned and leave FFJ. Fact is, I think BobC enjoys fly's "questioning" attitude as much as I do. I would sure as hell hate to see fly leave. In fact, just look at the interesting posts he's triggered on this thread.

 

Fly knows

That I would be the first one hanging onto her for dear life keeping her here to keep us on our toes.

Post Truamatic Stress Disorder is a valid defense and I'll never forget how it was back then, however, Fly is one of US and I truly hope that I haven't upset her. But look at the open wounds that needed the attention necessary for the chance to heal.

Shaking hands and high-fiving this group -
RR

 

Shadow you've always been one of the best posters and I've never gotten mad at you that I can recall.

RR--this forum is a breath of fresh air. Against my better judgement I looked at a former forum of mine the other day and believe me--I don't miss the others at all.

I think Fly performs a very important devils advocate service here, and I'm glad she's on the forums. Even when I want to throttle her! That was just a joke!!!!

 

Smooches, RR

And all the way around! Special thanks to the folks here who make this a safe harbor. I'm happy to be part of the FFJ love fest, even when we're debating.

BobC, knowwhatchumean about that other place. Please, someone, put it out of its misery. There are a couple people there worth rescuing though.

Edited to add: This is the wrong thread but oh well. Thanks, nandee, for posting that hilarious photo of Earle Caldwell in his juvenile delinquent years!