Tape? What tape?

Elle · Jan 29, 2010

Just a thought! There was nothing to stop John or Patsy driving away with any evidence during the night. They were out on Christmas night in their car. Tire marks were already present.

DeeDee · Jan 29, 2010

fr brown said: ↑

Say Patsy took the roll of tape out in her purse (along with the rest of the cord and the other practice ransom notes). I don't think she could run around with that with her in her purse. She couldn't be sure she wouldn't be arrested while she was out of the house. And she wouldn't leave her evidence-containing purse behind because, well, people like me would be taking a peek. (How could you resist?)

Personally, I think I'd find a nook in the house I was staying in and stash the evidence in hopes of retrieving it at a later date.

Or I'd give it to my attorney, if he'd take it.
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But why keep it at all? It points to their guilt. Even in the hands of their attorneys, it could be subpoened. If their attorneys were found to be hiding evidence like that, there would be serious ramifications. If they took it out of the house that night, my guess is they threw it away at the Stines.

DeeDee · Jan 29, 2010

Elle_1 said: ↑

Just a thought! There was nothing to stop John or Patsy driving away with any evidence during the night. They were out on Christmas night in their car. Tire marks were already present.
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Absolutely. They told LE they were going to the Stines, but they were not followed. They could have gone anywhere first. Not to mention they were probably allowed to pack bags to stay there.

Moab · Jan 30, 2010

The Ramseys didn't go to the Stines until after the funeral and their stay with the Fernies. Upon leaving the house when the police sealed the crime scene, they were escorted by a policeman to the Fernies. The police remained at the Fernies with them. Fleet White brought Burke from his house where he had gone early that morning to the Fernies.

OK guys, this got my curiosity up...so I did some checking, here is an approximate timeline of where the Rams were:
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 12"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CWiley%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CWiley%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CWiley%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><style>  </style> 12/26 - Fernies
12/30 Atlanta to Funeral
1/3/97 Mike Bynamn’s
A few days later they moved to Elowsky’s
Feb 9<sup>th</sup> moved to Stines and stayed for 5 months

koldkase · Jan 30, 2010

Don't forget John Ramsey's little trip around the Fernit neighborhood into the foothills that evening. I'll never believe he'd leave his family and walk around in the dark, without security, hours after he'd found his child's body in his basement, murdered by some intruder/foreign faction.

Think of the things he could have "gotten rid of" during that walk.

I notice that parents of children who are abducted and/or murdered, or who aren't found until years later, if ever, usually get divorced. They are emotionally destroyed and simply can't maintain a relationship under that stress. The Ramseys, on the other hand, sure did fine on that score, didn't they?

Remember that the Ramseys held onto that package of Bloomies for 5 years without turning it in to LE, until Team Ramsey advocate Lacy got the case. How many from Team Ramsey knew about that package and how important it was? Did any of them turn it in or tell the BPD about it? Don't hold your breath waiting for any cooperation in this investigation from Team Ramsey.

fr brown · Jan 30, 2010

DeeDee said: ↑

But why keep it at all? It points to their guilt. Even in the hands of their attorneys, it could be subpoened. If their attorneys were found to be hiding evidence like that, there would be serious ramifications. If they took it out of the house that night, my guess is they threw it away at the Stines.
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She wouldn't be keeping it per se, just waiting to get rid of it safely. The cops seem to have ruled out her leaving the house by vehicle that night. (At least Thomas doesn't mention it as a possibility in his book.) That would have been the best time and way to get rid of it.

I wouldn't take it to the Stines, though. I'd throw it away a long distance from my house.

zoomama · Jan 30, 2010

You know what I think is hard to figure,

is that Patsy's dad had a condo in Boulder. Why not go there? I've mentioned this once before this and was told they wanted the security of having other around them. I wouldn't want that at all but then that's maybe just me. With others around them they had to keep pretending a lot...1. an intruder did this...2. foreign faction...3. they were innocent of any of this. Whew! what a load of crap to pretend to.

DeeDee · Jan 30, 2010

fr brown said: ↑

She wouldn't be keeping it per se, just waiting to get rid of it safely. The cops seem to have ruled out her leaving the house by vehicle that night. (At least Thomas doesn't mention it as a possibility in his book.) That would have been the best time and way to get rid of it.

I wouldn't take it to the Stines, though. I'd throw it away a long distance from my house.
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Actually, thank you to Moab for correcting me. They went to the Fernie's that night.

While there, and I believe it was not long after going there, JR took a walk alone. He could have gotten rid of it then.

DeeDee · Jan 30, 2010

zoomama said: ↑

is that Patsy's dad had a condo in Boulder. Why not go there? I've mentioned this once before this and was told they wanted the security of having other around them. I wouldn't want that at all but then that's maybe just me. With others around them they had to keep pretending a lot...1. an intruder did this...2. foreign faction...3. they were innocent of any of this. Whew! what a load of crap to pretend to.
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You're right.
Patsy's dad was said to have left Boulder day before, so his condo was empty. Of course, if he hadn't really left Boulder, it wouldn't be empty, would it?
Always thought it SO strange that he and Nedra didn't rush back to be with the R's at what was the worst time of their lives.

Moab · Jan 30, 2010

zoomama said: ↑

is that Patsy's dad had a condo in Boulder. Why not go there? I've mentioned this once before this and was told they wanted the security of having other around them. I wouldn't want that at all but then that's maybe just me. With others around them they had to keep pretending a lot...1. an intruder did this...2. foreign faction...3. they were innocent of any of this. Whew! what a load of crap to pretend to.
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Rumor had it that the Ramseys were afraid the BPD had it bugged...not a fact...just a rumor.

DeeDee · Jan 30, 2010

Moab said: ↑

Rumor had it that the Ramseys were afraid the BPD had it bugged...not a fact...just a rumor.
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Even if they did, is shows that they had something to fear of that were true. Innocent people would not have conversations that make them look guilty.

Karen · Jan 31, 2010

But Patsy was very drugged up as stated by many people so what did they really have to fear? I read she slept practically the whole time. Of course being drugged up could go both ways as far as talking. But I doubt JR would leave her alone if he thought she would talk. I know she asked for Pam to go retrieve a few things (few, haha) but that only lends credence to the suspicion that she was trying to get evidence out of the house, not that she was talking. How come nobody thought of evidence being stashed in the golf bag JR asked for. I read that thread and nobody said that. And didn't ST say they never retrieved the golf bag (s)?

fr brown · Jan 31, 2010

Karen said: ↑

But Patsy was very drugged up as stated by many people so what did they really have to fear? I read she slept practically the whole time. Of course being drugged up could go both ways as far as talking. But I doubt JR would leave her alone if he thought she would talk. I know she asked for Pam to go retrieve a few things (few, haha) but that only lends credence to the suspicion that she was trying to get evidence out of the house, not that she was talking. How come nobody thought of evidence being stashed in the golf bag JR asked for. I read that thread and nobody said that. And didn't ST say they never retrieved the golf bag (s)?
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The golf clubs were collected on Dec. 27, likely the golf bag compartments were checked at that time.

DeeDee · Jan 31, 2010

fr brown said: ↑

The golf clubs were collected on Dec. 27, likely the golf bag compartments were checked at that time.
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Not by police. According to reports, no one searched what Aunt P retrieved from the house.

Karen · Jan 31, 2010

Yes and since they were down in the basement where the crime occured (?) it my have been easy to dump whatever evidence was left over deep into the bottom of a golf bag.

fr brown · Feb 1, 2010

DeeDee said: ↑

Not by police. According to reports, no one searched what Aunt P retrieved from the house.
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The golf clubs were collected by the police before Pam went in the house. (At least the golf clubs are on the Dec. 27 search warrant.) Pam didn't go in the house until Dec. 28.

I think it's likely that whoever took the clubs out of the bags, police officers or criminalists, took a peek inside the compartments of the bags at that time. They were collecting the golf clubs looking for a possible murder weapon. It only makes sense that they'd take a look in the bags for other evidence.

Karen · Feb 1, 2010

fr brown said: ↑

The golf clubs were collected by the police before Pam went in the house. (At least the golf clubs are on the Dec. 27 search warrant.) Pam didn't go in the house until Dec. 28.

I think it's likely that whoever took the clubs out of the bags, police officers or criminalists, took a peek inside the compartments of the bags at that time. They were collecting the golf clubs looking for a possible murder weapon. It only makes sense that they'd take a look in the bags for other evidence.
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Of course if the police got the golf club bag it was searched. I was talking about if Pam had been able to successfully remove it from the house she could have removed evidence that it contained.

heymom · Feb 2, 2010

koldkase said: ↑

That's how that question sounds to me, too, DeeDee. Why ask about the tape in the drawer if it's not significant? The issue of the duct tape source is one of the major things IDIs hold onto for dear life as proof of an intruder, after all. It was found on the body, so it's dead certain that the killer put it there, or someone staging the crime scene to cover up for the murder did, at any rate.

As I said about Mark Furhman's info about how detectives interrogate suspects, the fact that they threw that photo out in front of Patsy on the last day makes me think that they wanted her response to it. Think about it: they'd already discussed the tape; she'd talked about the tape herself in her long drive over Fleet White with that Ramsey bus; she'd denied having any duct tape in the house. Bam! There it is, Patsy. What have you got to say?

And she said...nothing. Not as you'd expect, Oh, I didn't know that was in the drawer, didn't know we had that in the house. Instead, she says she uses clear tape and ask John about it. haha Oh, yeah, she was ready to mow him down, too, apparently.

Do you know how to put a link to this thread at WS, DeeDee? Maybe that'd be the best way. Or you can link to the photos, either way. Do you know how to do that?
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Patsy: "That LOOKS like the drawer we had in the kitchen, but I couldn't say for sure. That MIGHT be our kitchen, it kind of looks like our kitchen, but I'm not certain it is."

fr brown · Feb 2, 2010

Karen said: ↑

Of course if the police got the golf club bag it was searched. I was talking about if Pam had been able to successfully remove it from the house she could have removed evidence that it contained.
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I was just responding to Dee Dee responding to my suggestion that the golf bags had, in all likelihood, been searched.

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