The Ramsey's own words

That's my personal way of imagining what happened too AMES. If you put an egg in a sock you can bump it into something without doing much damage, if any. If you have the momentum of swinging it from the top of the sock you can smash it to bits.

In order for them to say she was sound asleep when she got home it was necessary for the white top to be on her.

Little

 

I can just see Patsy trying to yank that turtleneck off of JB....those things are VERY hard to get off anyway. She was probably jerking her around trying to remove it...and that's when she hit her head.

 

It may also explain some of the marks on JonBenet.

Little

 

Yes, it may.

 

This is exactly what I think happened too. Patsy was in a rage and threw JonBenét around. One can see a struggle going on, as Patsy dragged her to the bathroom, throwing her in the tub in anger, and her head striking the taps or whatever (?). It's possible, isn't it?

 

It just seemed to me that the red top had a lot of meaning to Patsy. I wish the video of her interview was still available. That's the one time (IMHO) she seemed to sincerely fall apart.

Little

 

It is totally unlike Patsy to worry about a silly stain on one of JB's clothes shortly before going on a plane trip.
JonBenet probably had a wardrobe the size of other children's playrooms, filled with countless wonderful clothes, and Patsy fusses around with one stain? I don't buy it.
But why did she feel it necessary to tell the police such a story? I think she wanted to throw sand into the police's eyes, directing attention to the red jumpsuit, while in all probability it was the red turtleneck which she wanted to deflect attention from.

It seems Patsy initially told the police the truth about JonBenet wearing the red turtleneck to bed. Which indicates the child was probably awake when put in this garment, since she did not wear the turtleneck under the white sequined shirt she had on at the party.

It was pretty stupid of Patsy to later change her story, alleging JonBenet had been asleep and put to bed in the same clothes she had been wearing to the Whites' party. This just shows once more how chaotic the whole staging was done. Imo it is typical for a panicked parent quickly trying to put a story together to make such mistakes.

jmo

 

In the JonBenet Ramsey case, American Justice "truly" failed to arrest and charge Patsy Ramsey, because she was as crafty as a cat. Psychology and Confusion was the name of the game she played, with the assistance of District Attorney Alex Hunter, who handed her the police reports on a platter.

Patsy Ramsey changed her testimony to suit the play she was acting in, and it was so easy for her to change the next time around. Is it any wonder Steve Thomas was disgusted and left.

She should have been arrested on the spot for changing her police account given on the 26 December, when she told the the police JonBenét had worn a red top. She had to keep playing the game. This was why she threw in the part that she was fussing with a red top on the ironing board. Why would she have to describe it, instead of just saying she was doing some ironing. Aye right Patsy, in a pig's eye you were. Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!

 

A poster on another forum mentioned a case where a little girl was slammed sideways into a wall and one area of her skull was semi-punched-out.
So this would mean that JonBenet's punched-out piece of skull bone wasn't necessarily caused by an object wielded, but could also have occurred as she was slammed against a hard, flat surface, like e. g.a wall or the bathtub.

I never believed the flashlight was used as the weapon - I think the Ramseys used it in the kitchen to write the ransom note because they didn't want to put the full lights on.

 

I agree that it doesn't have to be something that someone hit JonBenet with, that it very well could have been something JonBenet hit her head on. That's why her being flung around fits with what my thoughts are on the red top. She was propelled against something, not that something was propelled at her.

If I'm wrong it sure won't be the first time

Little

 

What really ticks me off, is the fact that when she sees the photo of the red turtleneck and begins to cry (or PRETENDS to cry)....she is asked if she would like to take a break. WELLLLLL.....after the break, she is not asked another question about that turtleneck. I posted that portion of her interview on here...under "Patsy's Interview...things that were strange or out of place". I will go back and find it. Why wasn't she asked...."Patsy, before the break, I showed you a picture of the red turtleneck on the bathroom counter, and you began to cry. WHY?? What IS IT about that particular turtleneck that made you break down??" But NOOOOO....not another word about that turtleneck was uttered. I have often wondered if Patsy pretended to cry....so that she could "REGROUP"....maybe think of a lie to tell about it or something. She completely lucked up when she wasn't even questioned about it, after the break. How lucky can you get?? Geesh.
Here we go..

22 THOMAS HANEY: Number 18?
23 TRIP DeMUTH: How about the red
24 item in the upper right-hand corner?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: I think it's a
0266
1 little turtleneck, a little cotton turtleneck, 2 and I had wanted her to wear it to the Whites
3 and she didn't want to wear it.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: How did it end up
5 there?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Don't remember. A
7 crown. Oh, God.
8 THOMAS HANEY: It's about 10:25.
9 Do you want to take about a ten-minute break,
10 how's that sound? We will come back.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: (Crying.) (INAUDIBLE
12 RESPONSE.)13 (Recess taken.)

14 THOMAS HANEY: We are back on tape
15 and it's about 10:59 a.m.
16 And before we go back to the
17 photographs, on the break, there, we were
18 talking about a letter that you said that -- or
19 a card, whatever it was, that McReynolds sent.


From AMES: No you weren't..you were talking about the red turtleneck....remember the RED TURTLENECK? The one that is balled up on the bathroom counter, and Patsy "can't remember" how it ended up there? The one that, when you showed her a picture of it, she broke down crying...and had to take a break? Remember THAT ONE?

 

I agree with everything in your post. I have NEVER thought that JB was hit with anything....I do, however, believe that her head hit something...probably the side of the tub..or toilet. And I also, believe that the only thing that the flashlight was used for was to write the ransom note. (I believe that they got just a "bit" carried away, when they removed the batteries to wipe them clean, also. Now THAT was stupid. An intruder wouldn't have done that...because he wouldn't have had a reason to...the batteries are INSIDE...so therefore, untouched. I believe that the flashlight was left out on purpose though..as part of the staging. Possibly to make it appear that it was the weapon that caused JB's head injury. Looks like it worked, as there are alot of posters that believe that this is what was used. I find it more likely that JB was accidently slung into something...while Patsy was removing her turtleneck (is THIS the reason that Patsy broke down when she saw the photo of the red turtleneck?). I think that Patsy was removing it in a fit of anger...which means yanking and tugging and slinging her around.

 

I agree.

 

Thanks so much for posting this, Ames.

When asked how the turtleneck ended up there (in his book, p. 37 hardcover ed, S. Thomas says it lay balled-up on the bathroom counter), Patsy's reply is "Don't remember".
When in an interview or interrogation, suspects answer that they "can't remember", this often indicates deception. I think it was Mark McClish who pointed this out on his very interesting "Statment Analysis" site.
After her "Don't remember" reply, Patsy suddenly mentions a crown which probably could be seen in the same picture, and starts to cry. I believe she wanted to direct the attention away from the turtleneck at all costs, using the crown as a red herring here.
She wants to be pitied by the investigators as the grieving mother, and they fell for it, giving her a break. Again, Patsy got what she wanted.

And it is indeed unbelievable that after the break, Haney did not pick up where they left, questioning her more about the red turleneck. Again, another crucial opportunity to corner Patsy was lost. :banghead:

I have read somewhere that it was Lou Smit who recommended Tom Haney as an interviewer ...

 

Thomas Haney was a stupid twit here. as Ames stated below.

 

I believe that you are right about that crown...JB had a gazillion crowns...and in some of the photos, Patsy was shown JB's trophies and other crowns..and she didn't break down...so why do it with this particular picture? Red herring, indeed!!! (And if you think about it...why blubber over a crown anyway? She didn't break down when she was shown pictures of JB's other belongings...for example, her Easter basket, her backpack...etc)

 

Patsy dominated that interview. Haney was out of his league. So was Smit. There are so many questions that weren't followed up on, that needed to be asked and answered. Even when he asked the right question, Haney would barely let Patsy get a word in edgewise. He'd go on and on...AND HE'D INTERRUPT HER ANSWER! Drives me crazy to even watch the videos we have of these interviews. I keep saying SHUT UP AND LET HER ANSWER!

Too late now.

 

Makes me mad too. I can't believe that he just let the red turtleneck slide on by, without questioning her further about it....especially after she broke down after seeing the picture. There was more to that, than meets the eye. Why did they have to pick such a dimwit to interview her?? Geesh...I could have done a better job.

In this portion of the interview...after the break, and talking to her about a Christmas card, he finally gets back to the pictures...BUT NOT to the picture that they left off with, the one with the red turtleneck. NOOOO..he shows her another bathroom picture....but, its a picture of an unflushed potty!!!! GASP...horrors upon horrors....she MUST be guilty, she had an unflushed potty in her home!!! An unflushed potty spells guilt to me....lets just gloss over the picture of the red turtleneck that she broke down over, and had to take a break to collect herself over.

12 TRIP DeMUTH: And you, before we

13 took a break, you got a little upset. How you

14 doing, okay now?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I'm okay.

16 TRIP DeMUTH: Did you have any

17 medication during our break or anything like

18 that because you said you brought the Ativan?

19 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, but I didn't

20 take it.

21 TRIP DeMUTH: If you wouldn't mind

22 letting us know if you do.

23 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.

24 THOMAS HANEY: I think we left off,

25 finished with number 18, and it's a bathroom, so

0273

1 go to 19.
2 PATSY RAMSEY: This one looks like

3 somebody went to the potty and didn't flush.


FROM AMES:: So after the crying break, when Patsy was shown the red turtleneck....they came back to the interview, and the first thing that Haney starts talking about is a Christmas card, from McReyolds. And then, when they finally get back around to the pictures....he says..."I think we left off, finished with 18, and its a bathroom, so go to 19". And of course...19 is a picture of an unflushed potty. (Yuck!)....WHY OH WHY didn't Haney go back to the picture of the red turtle neck??? That is the picture that they left off with...before having to take a break because Patsy started stalling....uh, I mean..."crying". He missed a golden opportunity there...IMO. He let Patsy's fake tears get to him.

 

Again and again, we see the "poor Patsy, she's just a distraught rich mommy" viewpoint from anyone in Boulder LE (except Steve Thomas of course). They never treated the Ramseys as suspects, did they? It was as though the interviews were mere formalities, meant to satisfy the public or internal pressure, but never meant to actually gain information about JonBenet's death. Haney never pressed Patsy, Lou Smit never pressed John. They were sympathetic, something LE is NEVER supposed to be toward suspects. It's outrageous!

 

This post #78 says it all for me. They never followed through with this red top.


The Ramsey's own words
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by koldkase
Patsy dominated that interview. Haney was out of his league. So was Smit. There are so many questions that weren't followed up on, that needed to be asked and answered. Even when he asked the right question, Haney would barely let Patsy get a word in edgewise. He'd go on and on...AND HE'D INTERRUPT HER ANSWER! Drives me crazy to even watch the videos we have of these interviews. I keep saying SHUT UP AND LET HER ANSWER!

Too late now.
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