The Three Issues Concerning Keenan and C.U.

Re: Re: I think

Originally posted by Watching You

You said

Honey, I may be old, LOL, but you are dead wrong about my not being savvy about what goes on today. This old brain has forgotten more than you'll probably ever know, you young whipersnapper. I work at a University. I SEE what goes on. Not much gets past me - believe me.

See you took what I said about lack of personal experience, and made it about you being old; and I clearly said that's not what I was saying, I was saying that I have SEEN stuff like this happen from a young persons perspective and from a close up view because I know people like this and at one point in time was worse. Do you think young people act the same way always? Do you think that because you work at a university around young people that go to school and older folks who are teaching that it makes you any wiser to who these people are when they pound back a case of beer and fire up the bong? Seriously, I partied my @ss of through highschool and became addicted to every drug that could be smoked, that's the kind of experience I was talking about, not age, not experience with people at work, REAL PEOPLE EXPERIENCE. It took forever for me to get my life back together after that but it sure taught me a whole lot about people and how decieving they can be.

I don't act like a heathen at work or when I was in school, not now and not ever, yet I struggled with a crack addiction for two years because of people like the football players and coaches and whoever else may be involved. It started with partying with people who were much older than me at the time and just got worse from there, we would gp to the Mohawk College bashes or the McMaster parties.

I saw Psychology and Sociology professors sitting at tables gambling with football players while their coach looked on all wired on coke; we won't mention the crap that went on privately in the back bedrooms. I saw married teachers drunk and all over students, I know girls who are only getting good grades because they are sleeping with their teachers, I complained to school administration where I thought the issue would be dealt with and have never heard anything about it on the news or even just through my friends; like you, these mens coworkers can't picture these men hanging out with students and sleeping with girls young enough to call them daddy. It happens and it's happening on different scales everywhere.

I suspect at least some of the truth will come out eventually. We could both be right about some things, maybe wrong about others. I'm willing to give you credit if you're right.

I don't want credit, since this is a topic of conversation that (I felt) that I could add some insight into without getting into details; instead I've offered far too much to prove a point and will probably not post anymore for that reason; not that I'm ashamed, it's just sad that I'll be seen differently now for being honest.

Just don't underestimate this old woman, youngun, LOL.

 

Why do you assume

that I do not know what goes on at these parties just because I personally don't attend them? Do you think today's generation just invented parties and drinking and sex? Do you think today's kids are the first to pound back a case of beer and pass the bong? Jesu, man, I'm old, not dead.

I have students in my office every day. They talk to me because they trust me. I know about the parties, and I know what happens at them. I know about the drinking, I know about the sex. I also raised daughters and went through hell with a niece who was addicted to crack cocaine.

Don't assume that just because many of us are older that we too haven't experienced parties that ended up with kids drunk and strung out in different bedrooms.

I don't know what school you attended, but I can assure you the kind of crap you're describing with professors and coaches on drugs and involved sexually with students is not the norm, no matter what you think, and if it is happening where you went to school, why are you depending on the school to police itself? Why haven't you blown them in, yourself? Those are criminal activities you are talking about.

Don't think because you have shown us a part of yourself to prove a point that we think any less of you. I don't. I would like to you continue posting. Many have exposed raw parts of our lives to prove points. It only proves us human. Nobody is judging you here.

IOW, we can all learn from each other. I am truly amazed this chit happened to you at the hands of those who were supposed to be your mentors and role models. I don't think it's fair, though, to judge every other school by what happened to you.

 

WY and JustinCase

That was very enlightening on both sides. WY does have a very vaild point here - life experiences are the same every decade, just the clothing styles change.

WE all know that Crack is Not Whack - great to see you made it back. JustinCase, I am proud to see how well you have gotten yourself healthy and to where you are setting a fine example to others that may be in the same mess.

RR

 

Listen--this accuser got chit-faced drunk, did drugs and then dropped herself onto the bed and gave both of the athletes she pulled close CONDOMS! She has admitted this in her testimony so I have no patience with her at all. She did it all of her own free will and now for her to pretend she is a victim is absurd.

We expect women who get chit-faced and DRIVE to be prosecuted, and yet when they get drunk and have sex suddenly it's all the guy's fault. Unbelievable.

This is infantilization of women and it disgusts me. We are not talking about a woman walking down the street who gets jumped. A case like this spits in the face of real rape victims.

 

Re: Why do you assume

 

Re: WY and JustinCase

Thanks RR,

Your a poet and don't know it (bad PeeWee example)

 

JustinCase

Sometimes I can come across as a know it all, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know it all.

I come from a family of mostly females. I grew up with four sisters. My dad used to grumble (good-naturedly) because he had to go "pee off the stoop," wherever the stoop was, because the bathroom was usually tied up. I gave birth to three girls. One would think if anyone were to be on the side of the female in all situations that even hints of rape, it would be me.

I realize my position that many women are not without fault in certain instances isn't politically acceptable, and it probably isn't even understandable considering all the females in my family, but I don't believe that all women are blameless in their so-called "rapes." In fact, I am totally in BobC's corner on this one.

The problem is, activists want to lump all rapes together. Like Bob says, "we are not talking about a woman walking down the street who gets jumped. A case like this spits in the face of real rape victims." A woman who hosts a booze party and hands out condoms is sending a message that sex is expected. She gets so drunk she can't remember what happened, wakes up the next morning, gets mad because someone took advantage of her drunken self, she thinks but can't remember, and screams rape. I'm sorry, I know I'm a tough case, but I'm not buying it.

There are degrees of rape and degrees of responsibility. Here's one for you - Keenan has accused the coaching staff of being involved in recruiting athletes using sex. She connects that to parties where women were sexually available to the jocks - as part of the recruiting game. Are you with me so far? Now we learn that one, or some, of these women were raped. Hello? Even if it were true that the coaches were involved in setting up sex parties for these recruits, which is ludicrous in my mind, what is it about "willing" that the activists don't understand? How can they have a party of women to service these athletes if the women aren't fully aware of why they are there? The sex is free, remember? No need to use force, it's there for the taking.
Isn't this called "willing"? The last I knew, you can't rape the willing.

This is where it gets really murky. The party is about sex, the women know it's about sex, the guys know it's about sex. When does it become rape? When the girl says "no." Of course. Everyone knows that. Does she say "no" before or after she hands her potential rapists condoms? Rape is about power, right? It doesn't even seem that a rapist would enjoy easy sex if he's on a power trip and wants to be a rapist. That's not what rape is, right? Rape is power, not sex. But, it involves the use of sexual organs. So, did these "rapists" go to a power party or a sex party? Or, did they go intending to exert their power over a female who is willing?

So, this woman decides she didn't like being gang-banged, and I don't blame her one bit. She was too drunk to stop it, she says, and didn't really remember what happened, but she knew more than one guy had been on her, in her, with her, whatever. I'd be ed, too, but I wouldn't be pointing my fingers at the guys and saying, you bastids, you raped me. I'd be looking at myself in the mirror and saying, how could you be so stupid? The blame in a case like this isn't all one-sided, that's all I'm saying. The guys shouldn't have done it, obviously, but then, she did send a clear message to them when she gave them the condoms, did she not? Why are these questions taboo? Isn't it fair to discuss these issues instead of blasting anyone who dares question the status quo?

I already know I'm going to be the worst SOB that ever lived for expressing these views, but I don't really care. I don't expect anyone to conform to my opinions; I sure as hell am not going to conform to what someone else thinks I should think. I'm big on responsibility - there's enough shared responsibility in some of these cases that activists need to slow their butts down and quit putting all the blame on men.

I'm sure none of the activists will realize I'm not talking about all rapes. They will decide what I mean and what I think and blast me for being ill-informed and an affront to all females everywhere. Well, that's not true, but it won't stop them. I won't be reading their attacks, so all I can say is rave on. I have as much right to my beliefs as they have to theirs.

One more thing. Mary Keenan has proven to me that she is incompetent in her handling of the JBR case. Her inability to be unbiased in her job and do what is right has been evident. There is nothing she can say or do that I won't question because of her history with the JBR case. Furthermore, her refusal to first take the allegations of the alleged rape victims to court and at least try to get a conviction before she shoots her mouth off with unproven accusations against both the athletes and the coaches at CU is a cheap way of getting what she wants. It's devious, damaging, if untrue, and maybe even libelous.

Show me the proof, Keenan. Take these "rapists" to court, first, and prove they committed a crime. Then go after the coaches you say were involved. But, prove it, don't just make allegations that you can't back up - allegations that hurt careers and lives.

Sometimes activists go too far - get him at all costs, whether it's true or not - she said it, he's scum, he must be destroyed. Keenan's an activist. She has no business being a DA.

:rant:

 

To JustinCase

I like your passion, and I like the fact that you speak from your heart and your experience. You and I may disagree and do a little sparring over it, but I do very much respect your thoughts and the way you express them.

I just wanted you to know that.

 

It's true Justincase. Those are words from her own mouth. Keenan has tried to twist this whole thing to look like this naive young girl off the farm got jumped by drooling retard athletes while CU staff looked on cheering but it's all a big lie

 

Right, Tricia

if she said no, then technically, it's rape. She's allowed to change her mind at the last minute, and if she does and he persists, it's rape under the definition of the law.

This woman readily admits she only remembers "bits and pieces." It's hard to know what she really remembers or if those bits and pieces are real or imagined.

 

Did she say no? Hmmm- we'll never know will we? However, if you go into a dark bedroom with two football players, pull them onto the bed with you, and then hand them condoms--is that not saying yes? If she has done all that, am I supposed to believe she said no? Was she conducting a safe sex seminar?

 

You know the attitude here is scary. A woman can do all that and then say the next day that she said "no"--and she is believed over the males who say she said yes? That is pretty scary.

 

From RR's post on another thread:

"The Star, whose last cover trumpeted "Exposed: Shocking Sex and Booze Parties in JonBenet's house," a story that detailed how CU students like to have sex in the former Ramsey home, has a "world exclusive" this week." http://www.westword.com/issues/1999-10-21/calhoun.html

I've hesitated to post on this thread till now for several reasons, but just can't hold it in any longer. Apparently CU students, football players or not, are running rampant in Boulder with these parties. This article was published all the way back in 1999. Suddenly Keenan's supporting the tabs???

WY, BobC, I couldn't agree with your POV more, so we'll stand in the corner together, k? Back in my college days (late 60's) things were just as wild as today, but the drugs of choice were different. Anyone seen the movie "Animal House?" Alot of us woke up the next morning vaguely remembering what we'd done the night before and regretting it.

Keenan's sudden soapbox interest in these college parties is solely for the purpose of targeting CU officials. Now wouldn't it make sense that IF the officials wanted to use sex as a recruiting tool, they would hire callgirls or hookers instead of using coeds? There have been cases in the past where that's happened. The BDA and CU have long been arch rivals in the political arena in Boulder over many different issues. This isn't new or news.

KEENAN COULD CONVENE A GRAND JURY TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION. PERHAPS EVEN GET ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROSECUTE.

But she won't. Why? If ever there was an ongoing problem in Boulder that demanded a special prosecutor, this would be it. A Grand Jury should be convened to investigate the BDA IMO.

 

Re: JustinCase

 

Re: To JustinCase

Thanks WY,

I respect you as well, for a very short time I felt as though you could be getting angry but that went away when I realized how stupid this whole thing is; that didn't happen until after I went through and read articles from the past as well as the newer ones... This woman has some nerve causing all this ruckus, where's BobC with an anecdote??

 

LOL "drooling retard athletes" LMAO!!!!!!

You are such a joker, I'll be everyone around here just loves it when you post; everytime I read your posts I'm laughing out loud and my boyfriends wandering over wonder what could be so funny about a murder case, BobC, thats what.

 

Phew!

Well that's good to hear because I was terrified to even open this forum! I thought I'd come back to a drooling feminist LLYNCH MOB, repleet with torches and pitchforks, screeching "BOBC IS PRO-RAPE BUT WE'LL SEE HOW HE FEELS AFTER WE MAKE HIM A WOMAN--FETCH ME THE NEEDLE-NOSED PLIERS!" I'd have to join the Vienna Boys' Choir--soprano section!