The Three Issues Concerning Keenan and C.U.

You know the UT football team has had several rape scandals, but in those cases the women went to parties and really were raped! The players who did the raping were prosecuted, NOT the school, and if the prosecutor had any problems with the police it was handled professionally in-house.

All I'm saying here is the time to say no is quite a while before handing out birth control in a dark bedroom.

Mary Keenan sucks.

 

Tricia only hates me because I'm so damn glamorous.:devil:

 

hahahahaha, Bob

doesn't this all just smack of the mameslugs tactics? They went after a man, based on the word of a liar and with no proof, just like Keenan is doing with the CU athletes and coaches. Those who back these kinds of tactics are NO BETTER THAN MAME AND HER THUGS. Don't demand proof, just take the girl's word for everything.

I thought in this country you're innocent until proven guilty. Nobody's proved anything to me. Keenan refuses to call a grand jury to investigate these claims and she refuses to indict these alleged rapists and prove their guilt in court. Without an indictment and conviction, legally, there's no crime.

My standards are higher than those who automatically believe that just because someone cries rape that it actually happened. Show me the proof before I crucify some guy. Prove to me this woman was raped and prove to me who did it. I'm not buying this sappy activist crap, and I'm not conforming to someone else's idea of what my opinion should be. I don't give a damn who likes what I think or who doesn't like it. Prove the rapes, then prove the coaches were involved in setting up these sex parites and rapes. Then I'll listen.

Until then, anyone who can criticize someone else for wanting more proof before they hang someone might as well join up with mame and her thugs as far as I'm concerned, because they are exhibiting the same mentality of the mameslugs.

 

That's exactly what it sounds like. We have gone full circle from a time when women wouldn't dare report being raped, to a time when you can pull a horny male on top of yourself and hand out condoms, and still say you were raped.

 

Watching You,

I've been reading this thread with much interest. Yesterday I was driving somewhere and had a radio station on that was all sports (a leftover from my beloved 49ers and thier play). The host of the show is an ex pro basketball star. I don't know of him so I won't mention his name. But the whole topic for the 1/2 hour I was tuned in was this particular case and his view of it. I think youwill be shocked with what I'm about to tell you. First off he stated as a matter of known fact to the entire free world that sex has been used in recruting for at least a generation. He is older so he stated that all he got for his entertainment was front row seats to see Diana Ross, Sigmand and Roy and some other star in Vegas. He was complaining, yes, complainingthat he didn't get this KIND OF STAR treatment with all the sex parties. He said that it goes on everywhere. A guy called in from some little college in North Dakota and said he was lured there by the sex party plain and simple.

Now I didn't hear him or any of the guests or callers mention anything about rape. Probably because some men view rape differently than other men or the law for that fact.

I was very angry listening to this show and wished that I had a cell phone to call them and blast that smile off his smug face. Imagine, he was sorry he didn't have a sex party like the guys do today. Creeps.

Anyway I just wanted to let you know that I head this with my own two ears. I am of the belief that at major schools who have football programs that bring in major money will do anything to recruit good players...they do need a win, an outstanding athlete to bolster the alumni's pocketbooks and mostly to justify the program in the first place by having great stars enter their program to bring in the money. Round and round she goes and it seems like sex is being used everywhere now.

Do the coaches or AD know about all of this sex? I would hazard a guess that they are looking the other way or cover their ears when it is mentioned so they can straight faced answer a question about it all.

That is my take on that part of this mess.

 

Zoomie--don't take this the wrong way but you sound very naive about this kind of thing. Athletes in general ARE DOGS. They are pampered, get in trouble all the time, get monetary kick-backs, cars, all kinds of things. Why? BECAUSE COLLEGE FOOTBALL AND BASKETBALL BRING IN MONEY. We are talking HUGE money. College football keeps some college towns ALIVE. No big ball team, and a lot of people lose their jobs. Nobody cares if these guys graduate, and despite the PR to the contrary, nobody cares if they do well scholastically as long as they can hold on long enough to play for four years. It's a simple as that.

And frankly I don't see a thing wrong with it. This civilizational values athletes and that's awesome! So of course colleges try to whoo the best ones. Are strippers hired--oh hell yes. Directly through the school? Probably not but there certainly are ways! Are escorts ever involved? I don't know but I'd guess so! There is a whole sexual underworld out there from strippers to escorts to out and out prostitutes and most of them go into it to make fast, easy money.

Hate to tell you this, but most young guys go to see strippers ALL THE TIME. Man I remember being dragged every lunch hour to see them when I was in my twenties--so am I surprised that football players use them and might even engage in sex parties? HA! I'm sure it happens all the time--

 

Who's whining about us now?

I'd rather have a lively, honest debate here with strong women who put their money where their mouth is, than hang with a bunch of crybabies any day.

 

Well then, Tricia, may I be the first from the gutters of FFJ to offer the crybabies a big ole cup of shut the up! LOL

While I hate to appear supportive of Keenan, the most recent case of alleged rape is too difficult to prosecute successfully, for all the reasons we have been discussing here. The victim appeared willing (strong argument could be made on this of consensual sex which is not rape), drunk and therefore lacking reason, and so on and so on. The other victim who came forward may have had a better case, but perhaps the statute has run on that one. Nevertheless, Keenan could and should convene a GJ to investigate these matters, and Zoomamma, let's hope that someone at CU is brave enough to come forward with corroborating evidence such as the sports figure claiming knowledge on the radio. That kind of evidence would clinch the deal!

 

Zoomama

you know I respect you and your opinions. What BobC says about the way athletes are treated is true. I've seen it with my own eyes. There has never been a hint of a sex scandal at this university amongst our athletes. Many (or most) athletes do not get into school because of their academic skills. They get scholarships because of their athletic abilities, and yes, there is huge money involved. This is New York State, and I know the basketball commission in this state is right on top of things. Maybe it's different in other states, I don't know.

Athletes live a pampered life, and they all have a sense of entitlement. Many of them have private tutors and are enrolled in special programs to make sure they keep that GPA above the 2.0 mark. Some come from bad backgrounds but they are great athletes, and that's what matters in sports programs. If they do well in sports and are good enough to get into the pros, they don't much care if they have a 2.0 or a 4.0. Their futures are pretty much guaranteed, financially.

The athletes here ALWAYS have a group of women around them. There are a lot of things that go on involving sex and athletes, I know that, and the administration knows that. The thing is, in New York State, at least, 18 is the year of emancipation. An 18 year old is considered an adult, except with the alcohol laws. 21 is the age for legal alcohol consumption. What that means is, nobody has the authority over these athletes to tell them they can't go to a party and indulge in an orgy, if they want to. In spite of what some seem to believe, the coaches are not surrogate parents for these athletes. They have certain rules they have to abide by that are related directly to their sport, but their personal lives are not governed by the coach or the university. Even their parents cannot tell them what to do. Grades cannot be released to the parents without the student's legal consent. It would be like telling you or me that we can't do something in our personal lives.

Legally, no one can tell you what you can or can't do when it comes to your sex life, UNLESS you break the laws. Rape is a crime. If an athlete on this campus raped a woman, he would be arrested and prosecuted, if the evidence was there to convict him. There is no doubt he would be kicked out of school. So would any other male who raped a woman.

Do coaches look the other way when they know their players are partying and being sexually promiscuous? Sure, they do. Are athletes the only males on campus who are doing this? Hell, no. Nearly all healthy, red-blooded young men with raging hormones are equally involved in the hunt for a willing companion, and it's not just happening on campuses. Professors know this, staff knows this, coaches know this. It's been this way since time immortal, it's nothing new. Men and women seek each other out for sex. It's natural for them to do so. So, to single athletes out when all of campus is probably doing it is silly.

OTOH, do coaches look the other way if they know there is a sick rapist in their midst? I don't think so. Colleges and universities are image conscious. They don't want scandal on their campuses - it's bad for business. Whether tax-payer supported or tuition driven, universities depend on the almighty buck. If parents think for one nano-second the university condones forcible rape, there goes the revenue down the tubes. Schools will do everything in their power to avoid a scandal for the most powerful of reasons - money.

There are bad apples in every bushel, as we know. I'm going to say the majority of coaches and admins do not indulge in recruiting athletes using sex. Is there an unspoken understanding that easy sex abounds in most universities? Considering the age group and the potent hormones of that age group, I think coaches and admins understand there will be sex and lots of it. There is a difference between "understanding" and "agreement," though. It is unethical and illegal for athletic personnel to use sex as a recruiting tool. That's what I know. Not many coaches that I know of are willing to risk their careers to break those ethics or laws.

So, while there may be some instances of this going on, involving unethical personnel, I don't believe it is prevalent at all. I definitely do not believe Mary Keenan has a clue.

 

Tricia

regarding the assessment of FFJ from the self-appointed determiner of all that is right and wrong, who gives a crap what she or any of the others think? You weren't put on this earth to please the know-it-alls of Pukeatory, you don't answer to them, and their opinions are just that - opinions, no different from anyone else's. I don't know who appointed mjenn judge of all that is good and bad, but I'm not impressed. She is looking more and more like the mameslugs and less like the reasonable poster I once thought she was.

In spite of mjenn's rants, FFJ is growing by leaps and bounds, and every poster on board now is of the finest caliber. Seems that alone would negate her silly prophesies of doom and gloom, but she has to try to justify her activism somehow, I guess.

Personally, my dear, I don't give a pig's as$ what mjenn or anyone else at Pukeatory thinks. Neither should you. You're wasting your time trying to reason with her. You can't reason with a know-it-all.

 

Yup. Guys there are whole websites these days which just advertise sex partners. People seem to have a much more casual view about sex these days.

 

And, I don't like it, Bob

my personal feelings on the casual attitude toward sex is that it's not a good thing for anyone. I always thought a person should be a little fussy whom they go to bed with and sex should have more meaning than it seems to have today, but it's not for me to say what others think or do. My personal feelings don't dictate what reality is. The reality is - free sex is a way of life among our young people today. One has to wonder how much more casual it can get.

Personal responsibility isn't just for some - it's for everyone. When everyone gets this, this world will be a better place to live. Until then, we have activists who think personal responsiblities apply only to those with penises. Sorry. I don't agree.

 

yup

I agree WY. My favorite quote is "Our sexual powers are niether to be feared nor taken lightly."

 

Colorado, rape accusers may reach settlement

School would change recruiting policies
in order to avoid paying alleged victims

The Associated Press
Updated: 12:02 p.m. ET Feb. 12, 2004DENVER - A prosecutor wants the University of Colorado to try to settle sexual assault lawsuits filed by three women who say they were raped by football players or recruits.


Boulder District Attorney Mary Keenan said the university could then begin working on how to deal with acquaintance rape problems at the school and within the athletic department.
...snip

It was Keenan who decided against filing rape charges in the case, saying it would be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. But in a deposition in one of the lawsuits, she accused the school of using sex and alcohol to entice high school recruits — comments that ignited a firestorm around the university less than two weeks ago.

Keenan said she met with university President Betsy Hoffman to try to quell the scandal.

“We need to get everybody to the table, and go forward in a positive way and stop mudslinging,†Keenan said in a telephone interview.
...snip

The lawsuits accuse the state’s flagship university of fostering an environment hostile to women, which would violate federal gender equity laws. University and athletics department officials, including Hoffman and football coach Gary Barnett, have denied the allegations and insisted the school has never used booze-fueled parties to impress recruits.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4120995/

 

No truer words have been spoken of late BobC. JMH&CPO.


:censored:

 

She did? She's reopening the criminal investigation? I must have missed this. Does this mean she intends to arrest and prosecute someone?

Hell, yes, this is a good thing. Right?

Snore.

Keenan sucks is an understatement.

 

Re: Colorado, rape accusers may reach settlement

Looks to me like same old chit different day in Boulder Watching You.

 

Shakedowns! Everywhere you look! Seems like Miss Keenan sure learned a lot from Lin Wood when she was sharing the case file with him! Doesn't everything make sense now? Birds of a feather.

How can a university be "hostile to women?" God this is so sick.

 

The Boulder Police Department must created a hostile environment for Miss Patsy, who is a woman.