Various ponderings, part 2

Note above, Patsy states "Often we wash" I take it she's talking about herself and Linda Hoffman Pugh? I can see Patsy quickly throwing JonBenét's bedding into the washer and dryer rather than have it lying on the bed. Just a hop skip and a jump from the washer outside the door, but Patsy help Linda with the large wash (?). This I don't see! Basically when it came to any kind of housework, Patsy was lazy. I'm amazed she even stripped JonBenét's bed.

This book "Death of Innocence" was written to cover their tracks and boost their lies, so we can't really go by anything either one of these two Ramseys say in it; especially when it comes to anything they have to cover. Who knows? Maybe all the missing pages were taken up writing their plans out, and being careful about this-n-that (?). There were quite a number of pages missing from Patsy's pad. My guess is, they numbered every step they took to cover their crime, and used up quite a few pages (?). Is it any wonder LE couldn't find them?

I think the confrontation was upstairs, maybe in the kitchen over the pineapple. The fingerprints of Patsy and Burke on that bowl with the pineapple, should have added up to something (?).

Maybe in JonBenét's bedroom, or bathroom (?). The red top could have been put on for spite. JonBenét wouldn't wear it that day. Just a thought! Being wakened up at midnight; dragged out of bed, and not liking it one bit, started a brawl (?).

Who knows, Tea? Maybe one of you younger ones might find out more. I'll be very happy about that! You certainly do take time to think a lot of things through.

 

The Ramseys and their spin team have lied and lied about the pineapple found in JonBenet's intestines for years. That's because if they admit the pineapple went from being eaten to the intestines at the TOD, that was only a space of 1-3 hours, tops, so that means JonBenet HAD to have eaten it at the Whites or after returning home.

How to explain JonBenet having pineapple with her killer...when both parents have said MANY TIMES that she was asleep when she got home? And how to explain a STRANGER killer so comfortable in the home with the parents upstairs that he had JonBenet eating pineapple, then waited 1-3 hours to kill her?

Can't do it, can you?

Now, if the Ramseys REALLY didn't know who murdered JonBenet, don't you think they'd be hearing this info and going, WHAT?! SHE ATE PINEAPPLE WITH THE KILLER AND THEN HE HUNG AROUND FOR HOURS ATTACKING HER BEFORE HE KILLED HER? HE MUST BE SOMEONE WE KNOW!

But no...the Ramseys simply DENY, DENY, DENY.... PURE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY, IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE CHILD'S BODY, INDISPUTABLY PRESENT AND PROVING SHE ATE IT...but the RST simply says Nope! No pineapple! Or it isn't important! Means nothing! She could have eaten it anytime! The killer brought it with him! It didn't come from the
Rams' own fridge and bowl, sitting right on the table. NOPE! DENY DENY DENY....

Anybody else listening to the news of this father/husband who flew to England sometime around the time his wife and child were murdered...and WON'T TALK TO LE BECAUSE HIS LAWYER SAYS NOT TO....

Oh, yeah, he's SOOOOO innocent, he is taking a page RIGHT OUT OF THE RAMSEY UMBRELLA PEOPLE'S PLAYBOOK.

What's next? Find a loved one murdered? LAWYER UP AND NEVER SPEAK TO LE! JUST IN CASE! Who needs to catch killers?

Not the Ramseys.....

 

Sorry I'm a little behind, been busy, playing catchup today!

Speaking of the dramatic abilities of Miss Patsy, my eyes about popped out of my head when I read this in Wecht's book the other day. (Don't know why I didn't catch this before, but back when I first read this, I was focused on the big picture, so lots of subtle stuff flew right by me.)

From Wecht's book, pp. 140-1, a high school friend of Patsy's "...described her as the mover and shaker in the background, quietly getting things done. 'She was so bright. She was just the kind of person who was a leader. If she had an idea, she wasn't afraid to try to get it implemented....'" The friend then goes on to explain that Patsy was so "unassuming" that on an awards day, many were shocked "...to see Patsy collect two banquet tables full of trophies for speech, drama, and academics."

Anybody think Patsy could have taken charge on Dec. 25/26th? Too bad Smit didn't bother to actually consider that the prime suspect might be more clever than he is.

But this part really grabbed me as well, because I once was asked to help coach a high school debate team and went to state finals with the team and a student I coached in the dramatic interpretation. I watched the kids competing at that level, and I'm telling you right here and now, the winners could play on Broadway and not be over their heads. THEY WERE SHOCKINGLY BRILLIANT. And this was STATE, not national competition, AND PATSY WON HER STATE TWICE AND CAME IN SECOND AT THE NATIONAL COMPETITION:

P. 141: "She really excelled on the speech and debate teams, where she was described as a forensic coach's dream. Her specialty was oral interpretation--the dramatic presentation of a scene from a play or story without the support of props or costumes. She won the state championship as a junior and senior, and placed second in the national competition for her performance of a scene from the play The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie."

But remember that this little monologue Patsy did so well couldn't be used for the Miss America Pageant, as per broadcasting copyright issues, and I'm thinking she had to hurriedly put together her new monologue in a very short time to do for that pageant. She wrote it herself, "Deadline," and she got one of 8 non-finalist talent awards for her performance.

Patsy's former pageant mentors, the Miss West Virginia pageant officials, described her as being driven, competitive, and the ultimate Miss West Virginia, setting the bar for those to come. I found this quite informing from Albert Cox, on p. 142:

"'You have to be competitive...have that spirit and drive to do it.' Cox said Patsy was...intelilgent and ambitious...driven."

Many say that Patsy was really into being Miss West Virginia, quoting her as saying it was like being Cinderella for a year. There are several pages of Patsy's school and pageant accomplishments, but the message comes through very clearly: this was THE defining image Patsy had of herself--she was the Queen. Here is the seed of her desperate need to believe in "IMPORTANT" things god has planned for her, IMO. No ordinary life for Patsy. Nope. Tables full of awards, trophies, and accomplishments. And if she's got a dramatic murder in her life, well, then it MUST be part of god's plan!

So...Patsy can act...and write a "monologue" for dramatic performance quite well. She went on to perform her little self-authored monologue...or as she said of Steve in her LKL March, 2000, interview, DELIVERED her monologue, all the way to the Miss America Contest. Now, I'm realizing, this needs a closer look.

In the LKL interview in March of 2000, Patsy said something that caught my eye because of the ransom note language, which we spot so often in her and John's extemporaneous speech: Patsy mentioned Steve Thomas DELIVERED a monologue. I immediately thought about all the "deliver/delivery" stuff in the ransom note. Now I think I get it: Patsy spent her very formative years of high school practicing and excelling in speech and drama, including DELIVERING MONOLOGUES for competition. And hence: DELIVERY DELIVER BLAHBLAHBLAH RANSOM NOTE.

So...here is how she did it: after all this time, I now see the puzzle pieces fall into place:

The reason the note was so long was because Patsy was composing the monologue of her life: she wrote it and she wrote it quick. She knew nothing of ransom notes, but she knew lots about quickly composing a story for the consumption of others. And this is how she was able to do so after the horrific events had unfolded that night. She had the background and training to draw on. She was under pressure: BEAUTY PAGEANTS AND LIVE PERFORMANCE ARE NOTHING IF NOT THRIVING UNDER STRESS.

I think this clears up for me any questions I might have had about Patsy's abilities to do what many think she did that night and the next day. I think Patsy had an idea and implemented it. I think she was the leader that night, not John. Patsy found herself needing a story that she could play in a life and death plot. So she wrote one. Under pressure and stress. She pulled it off. I think it's very possible John brought his own special ideas to the murder--see Tea's thread about DOI.

I think they are in it together up to their necks, IMO.

 

I think Patsy's real claim to fame as an author will always be "The Ransom Note."

 

Here is what Patsy had to say about Thomas on the LKL Show in March of 2000, while plugging DOI:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/28/lkl.00.html

Yep, "delivering" a soliloquy was Patsy's forte, wasn't it? Boy, if John thought she was something lying to his old mistress while he hid behind the door, he must have gone a$$ over tea kettle when he read the ransom note....

So...all that's left for me to figure is who was doing the prior molesting. From there...all roads lead straight to the garroter.

 

Of course, John is the one who calls someone "bringing" food to your house after a death "delivery...."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/27/lkl.00.html

 

Oh, did I mention that a two and a half page handwritten note might just be about the same length as a 2 minute monologue a student would deliver in a dramatic interpretation competition?

It's been a decade, but I think the time limit was two minutes when my student did it. Cherokee probably has done a word count for the ransom note. Gosh, my drama stuff is buried deep in memory.... Let me think....

See, the thing is, there is a timer, literally, and the student cannot go over their time limit. We had to edit and time it, edit and time it, ad nauseam. When we practiced, it was to a timer, making sure the student wasn't disqualified for going over.

I'm sure they had a time limit in the Miss America Pageant, as well.

Think about it: year after year, competition after competition, pageant after pageant: time it; time it; time it; time it; time it; time it....

Two and a half pages to convince LE a kidnapper had been in the home and murdered JonBenet.

Extreme language, to convince LE the intruder/kidnapper was violent: behead her, behead her, behead her.

A viable culpret: I recently read, maybe it was Wecht's book, maybe it was here, that the writer reveals HER fears when choosing the faux kidnapper. A lawyer might worry about a criminal client seeking revenge or gain; a celebrity might worry about a crazy stalker; a mother might worry about an ex-spouse. Who worries that a terrorist kidnapper would come in the house and murder them? Someone who does successful international business and has children...or his spouse.

Convincing language that a kidnapper/intruder/terrorist would use: monitoring devices; denominations of bills; how the money drop would happen; threats; and A MYSTERIOUS SIGNATURE: SBTC.

Well, that's what we know from movies...right? If you had to write a convincing note from a kidnapper and your fears in real life involved a terrorist from a foreign country taking your international businessman husband...voila! And believe me, something little talked about, but we have discussed it, is that kidnapping in third world countries is big business. That's why very rich and affluent people travel in bulletproof Class E Mercedes, Rolls, with chauffeurs who are bodyguards, as well, especially out of the U.S. John traveled a lot. John worked for a national defense contractor. I'd bet money John had been to more than one workshop about safety and kidnapping. He might even have had kidnapping insurance for AG, which is very common for international businesses. I bet you anything you want to wager Lockhead Martin has it.

So when someone who is NOT a kidanapper writes a note to "stage" a kidnapping to cover up a murder, the FBI knows a fake note from a real one because they've seen all the real ransom notes: and they saw immediately this was not a real ransom note. Kidnappers just write quick notes: get the money, I'll call, don't call LE. No signature is needed if the child is GONE. But if you've never seen a real ransom note, or a PRETEND real one, or are basing your idea of a ransom note on a movie like "Ransom," then there you have it: lots of details, phone calls, convoluted drives, instructions.... NOT REAL.

But someone who thought of third world kidnappers as a threat used that to write the note.

And again...all roads lead to Patsy.

I know Cherokee has covered all of this, too. And what a fine job she did. I guess I'm just nailing down the psychological thought and conditioning that lead the way from a molestation to a head blow to a cover up molestation and strangulation.

 

KK, I agree with every word in your post, but I especially wanted to highlight a couple of things you said.

I also taught speech and debate, and you know what I mean when I say there are some people who are just naturals at "delivering" monologues and other types of written or impromptu communication. They have an ability to think on their feet, and their thought processes are always one step ahead. They have a gift for dramatic interpretation that cannot be taught. It is something they feel.

Obviously, Patsy had/has that gift. She is quite an actress and very confident of her abilities.

What you quoted Cox as saying about Patsy really stood out to me, that she was "intelligent and ambitious...driven." That is exactly what her handwriting says. If I had to choose three words to sum up an analysis of her handwriting, I'd choose INTELLIGENT, AMBITIOUS and DRIVEN.

I also agree with what you said about Patsy writing the ransom note as a composition or a play in which Patsy had a role to perform. Patsy was used to having to "deliver" under stress. In fact, she seems to be one of those "driven" people who thrives under pressure.

No wonder she named her replacement monologue "Deadline." It's what she does best.

 

KK: Note that John Ramsey doesn't reply with "he" was the one who found her. He keeps talking about "they" found her. Strange (?).

 

Yes, Cherokee, Patsy Ramsey rattled up that ransom note as fast as she wrote her winning talent speech on copyright, when she couldn't get the copyright for her favourite speech from "The Pride of Miss Jean Brodie."

Her brain worked fast and she wrote the ransom note like a one act play. She pulled it off, didn't she? This is the sad part.

 

There are no coincidences in this world, eh, Chero?

You are so right about the kind of student/person who just "has it." All through the part of the book about Patsy's pageant life and associates, they all say she became the absolute role model for all future Miss WVs. She was the ultimate, they say.

Gosh...I hope not! :runaway:

 

Great linguistic catch, Elle! Oooh boy, talk about psychological distancing and pronoun substitution.

KING: Well, this is hard. When was the first time you saw your daughter? After all of this, you got the note, how long after this did you see JonBenet?

J. RAMSEY: You mean, when did they find her?

KING: Yes.

J. RAMSEY: Well, they found her later that morning.

What happened to John's personal pronoun "I"?

I'll tell you what happened.

John could not truthfully say "I found her" so he had to substitute a different pronoun with the verb "found" or "find." Instead of changing the verb, he changes the pronoun. What tripped him up was that Larry King asked "how long after this did you see JonBenet?"

John obviously "saw" JonBenet sometime before he officially "found" her. By using the plural 3rd person pronoun "they," John linguistically disowns the act of finding JonBenet's body.

 

OHMIGOSH, Elle! Did she write her monologue in response to not being able to use her precious rendition of "The Prime..."?

I swear, you aren't slow yourself! That would have been quite some response during a time when she would be pushed every day to attend rehearsals, fittings, publicity shoots, etc.

And can't you just believe that Patsy WAS NOT A STAGE MOTHER?!

HA! JonBenet already had bleached and dyed hair, knew hair extensions, manicures, singing lessons, dancing lessons, costume fittings, so many photo shoots we have more still pictures of JonBenet than Shirley Temple had in her life as a motion picture child star....

 

According to my computer, the Ramsey Ransom Note has 375 words including the salutation and closing.

 

Oh, good catch, Elle, I agree.

You know, now that you mention it, Cherokee, I'm trying to follow that thinking:

John tucks JonBenet in. The next time he "sees" her, she's dead and in the cellar room, and it's after 1 pm, according to the official story.

So...the next time he "saw" her was in fact when HE found her in the cellar room...dead...after 1 pm...HE SAID ORGINALLY.

So the natural answer to LK's question is "WHEN I FOUND HER IN THE CELLAR AFTER 1 PM." If John was telling the truth, that would be the correct answer, and that would be what he'd think of after LK asked the question.

But he shoots a question back at LK: "You mean, when did they find her?"

As you said, Elle, that's very odd.

Because LK clearly leads John up to finding JonBenet, FROM THE POV OF JOHN'S STORY: the Rams found the note and then 7 hours later found JonBenet. Why wouldn't John just go, oh, next time I saw her was when I FOUND HER that afternoon.

OK, I think I follow you, Cherokee: John, LIKE PATSY, is on top of every question looking to be tripped up. So he is thinking WHAT IS LARRY ASKING ME? HE KNOWS WHEN I SAID I SAW HER NEXT? IS HE ASKING ME SOMETHING TO TRICK ME?

Ah. I get it. John is following TWO LINES OF THOUGHT: THE TRUTH AND THEIR STORY TO COVER UP THE TRUTH/THE LIES.

So when LK asks John when he saw JonBenet next, maybe the REAL next time John saw JonBenet after he and Patsy finished the note was when they said their last goodbyes before calling LE...or when he checked everything one more time before the 911 call...and that's the reality John has in his mind when LK asks him the question. But as with all lies, John has to then stall to give himself time to make sure he doesn't slip up, so JOHN ASKS A QUESTION HE WANTS TO ANSWER, so he doesn't get confused.

Kinda' like when Patsy calls 911 and the dispatcher. Patsy says there's a ransom note, and the dispatcher asks "Does it say who took her?" Patsy shoots back "What?" She's got an edge in her voice. I listened again and I saw it: Patsy, with the REALITY IN HER MIND that she's trying to create an illusion that SOMEONE TOOK JONBENET, also knows first that NO, THEY DIDN'T. So Patsy first hears the dispatcher say "Does it say that YOU took her?" Patsy freezes, for a split second thinking...what?! She knows! Then the operator repeats and Patsy goes on with her performance.

So there is the REALITY, layered under the LIE.

But if you read Patsy being interviewed BY ANYONE, you see time and again, she stops in her tracks when asked simple questions, giving strange answers or answering with a question of her own. Like when asked about the paintbrush by Thomas on LKL, is it your paintbrush, she said I don't know that. HUH? 3 YEARS LATER AND SHE HAS NEVER BOTHERED TO CONFIRM THAT A MAJOR PIECE OF THE GARROTE THAT KILLED HER CHILD WAS IN FACT FROM HER OWN POSSESSIONS?

And that, my friends, is exactly why the Ramseys look guilty as sin. They can't just be straight, they distance themselves time and again from simple evidence that clearly came from their own property, they refuse to cooperate with LE, and they are on guard all the time when asked questions, because they KNOW they can slip up...and that makes them paranoid and unnatural in their behavior and responses.

IMO, of course....

 

Thanks, Chero. Now, let's see if I can find my info on words/minute for drama. I think it's 70 or 90 pages for a screenplay...which runs 90 minutes. So maybe it's 90 pages, typed, double-spaced.

So, that's about a page a minute.

So...how long is the ransom note, typed and double-spaced on an 8.5X11 page?

Or...maybe Patsy was used to a format that came out to be about 2.5 typed pages--or maybe she wrote by hand...so when she wrote the note...even though it was block writing...that's how it worked out.

You know...the old male teacher who had Patsy Miss WV memorabilia in his home and told the tabs she could write with both hands...that guy must have seen her writing with both hands. Was he her drama/speech coach? I can't remember. You think? I'm trying to think what he taught her. Again, a memory jog is needed.

Just speculation here, of course. I'll have to think about it and see if I have any of my old info stored or in some books I still have around.

Anyhow, thanks Chero. I'll see what I can find.

 

This is paraphrased from a NE article-

Someone by the name of Jackie Goodwin, a teachers' union representative, spoke with the teacher who asked that his name not be revealed. It is not stated what subject he taught, since that would give a clue as to who he is, stated that Patsy could write with both hands.

-Tea

 

Patsy was the epitomy of a first class stage mother KK.

Here's Steve Thomas' account of the talent award:

Although not mentioned by Steve here, I read elsewhere, that Patsy wrote this the night before the talent competition with a friend. Steve names the friend. Writing the ransom note was easy for Patsy Ramsey.

I also feel the missing pages in Patsy's note pad were used with both her and John writing down everything they had to take care of where the staging was concerned, and checking them off one by one. I would say they would have used up a few pages for this. Too bad those missing pages were not found.

 

There are those who say she could've eaten some pineapple at home prior to going over to the Whites' house. If this was the case, then it would have been past the proximal part of her small intestine. There was no pineapple at the Whites' party. So, if she did consume some before going over there, this would mean that she was killed over there and we all know that didn't happen.

Well, ya see, the Ramseys have to put forth the story that they had very minimal contact with her when they got home. It was like they got home, ran upstairs at breakneck speed, and tossed her into bed in five seconds flat.

-Tea

 

OK, I wanted to do this before I forget. (I have a list of case stuff I need to get to...including Easy Writer's stuff, and forgive me for not getting there yet, but I have been busy. Also, I still have to read the Miller trial transcripts, which I'll share what I can when I get to it....)

Here are some things that jumped out at me when I reread the LKL March 2000 interviews with the Rams:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JOHN AND PATSY, THE DOUBLETALK KING AND QUEEN: Notice how easily John and Patsy turn the absolute truth into complete lies here...and spin it like they're telling the truth! THE RAMSEYS DIDN'T HIRE LAWYERS, THEIR FRIEND BYNUM DID! THEY DIDN'T HAVE PR PEOPLE...THEY HAD MEDIA CONSULTANTS! The Ramseys aren't responsible for what their lawyers did! They're just little lambs and the LAWYERS are the ones doing all the BAD STUFF!

Hey, Greenleaf, remember when we discussed this? John NEVER mentions his daughter Beth's boyfriends without minimizing her relationship with them: her SPECIAL FRIEND? Who says that? He did that in DOI, as well. Very creepy. Either he couldn't accept that Beth had real BOYFRIENDS, or he has some other reason he chooses to make them sound like charity cases she simply pitied.

AND I'M GOING TO SHOUT HERE, BECAUSE THIS TICKS ME OFF ABOVE ALL ELSE WITH EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS EVER INTERVIEWED PATSY RAMSEY EXCEPT THOMAS! WHY WON'T THEY JUST SHUT UP AND LET HER ANSWER THE QUESTION, LET HER TALK! BELIEVE ME, SHE WOULD HAVE CONFESSED A DOZEN TIMES BY NOW IF THEY'D JUST SHUT UP AND LET HER ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION

WHAT, PATSY, WHAT DON'T YOU THINK "THEY"...? DON'T THINK THEY KNEW HER? OR THEY DIDN'T MEAN TO KILL HER? HUH? HUH?

Well...guess we'll never know.... :unreal:

:steamed: :scream: :hopmad: :curse:


And here is Patsy claiming the ransom note IS HERS...HEY! IT CAME FROM HER HOUSE! She has a right to it, dammit!

Well, many DO AGREE that it is ALL HERS....

And again with the DOUBLETALK KING AND QUEEN: DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT MAKE THESE DEMANDS? NO! OUR LAWYERS DID, NOT US! Just because they represent us because we pay them a fortune to do so does NOT mean WE DO THESE THINGS, because we don't! THEY DO IT...in our name...BUT NOT US!

So...please tell us AGAIN, John, how you cooperated from day one? Or not? WHICH IS IT?

So, to recap:

Ramseys = GOOD!

Attorneys = BAD!

Got it? Ramseys=GOOD couldn't pee if someone didn't tell them to! Understand?! Ramseys=GOOD came back to Boulder to work with LE! Ramseys=GOOD demanded to talk with LE! 4 months later! With conditions set by ATTORNEYS = BAD!! Not Ramseys=GOOD's fault!


But I gotta ask, in that famous Ramsey "hindsight" does ANYONE not in restraints BUY THIS CRAP?


Except...I can believe one thing Patsy said is the gospel truth: SHE WAS VERY AFRAID OF GOING BACK TO BOULDER. But not because of any nonexistent intruder, IMO.

:verdict: