When Patsy Dies

Kelly

Thanks. I would love for you to go. You might need to bring an umbrella...thou. *grins*

Freespirit... Sometimes good people ....do bad things. This is where the Rams come in. The thing that bothers me most about them is how they just got on with their lives and still proclaim their innocence. Murder, lies and buying a priviledged justice ...isn't exactly none of our business.

 

When considering Patsy, I would not put it beyond her to make a public appearance, despite being in tremendous pain and even perhaps at death's door. Remember, for Patsy, appearance is everything. She is as vain as the day is long, and the festival may have been her last hurrah at having her adoring public worship her.

What I know is that she is still on the prayer list for the gravely sick at St. John's Episcopal in Boulder, and I have not known churches of that stature to keep people on their prayer lists if someone is feeling just a little ooky and out of sorts.

 

Thank you.

The Ramseys made the murder of JonBenet our business when:

They chose to go on national tv and told the world to hold your babies close, there's a killer out there.

Then deliberately stalled the murder investigation into oblivion.

Then wrote a book about how awful the justice system was to them, repeatedly appearing in every public medium available to sell that book.

Then used that same legal system to make money, control the press, dampen the same freedom of speech which THEY USE for their own personal gains and to RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE. :reporter:

Yeah, I think the Ramseys made their lives very much the business of anyone interested in the fact that a child murderer is STILL freely walking around, shopping, talking to people....

JMO

 

Amen. And Amen.

 

What WY said.

 

Patsy's back home?

I thought Patsy was staying in Roswell GA with her Dad as she under goes outpatient treatment? Does she just go back to Charlevoix when she's up for it? Flying back and forth? BTW, I think Burke looks fine. He's growing up.

-Aja

 

My opinion

It is my opinion that Patsy moved back to Atlanta to die. Inasmuch as we can assume that she wants to be bruied next to her Mom and JonBenet, in Atlanta, it makes sense that she pass away in Atlanta. Otherwise, her body would have to be flown from Mich. to Georgia.
Hello there, Little Angel. It's nice to meet you.

Greenleaf

 

What a contradiction........

If we minded our own business, JonBenet's Murder wouldn't be open for discussion. The Ramseys would have moved on as they wished for days after her homicide.

Aurora - you know I would have been there with you. I would have absolutely no problem walking up and introducing myself and my Hat to either one of JonBenet's parents. Why not? They can't kill me. I can't kill them. No real harm done. I have always felt that the Lord's eyes would be glaring down at me if I closed my eyes and became as inactive as the Boulder D.A.s office, I could be very well wrong but I'll take my chances.

RR

 

Well, hell, yes, RR. It's not a lot different from walking by a child molester/killer like little Samantha's killer and Polly Klass's killer and minding my own business. I happen to still believe both the Ramseys were either involved in the murder of their daughter or know who was. Keep silent? Hell, no, I wouldn't. I'll reap what I sow, gladly, since I try only to sow good, not bad.

 

Well, apparently I have ruffled some feathers here without intending to.

Aurora asked me a question and I answered it. No, I personally would not feel it is my business to walk up to the Ramseys in public and address them with a comment about the death of their daughter.

Regardless whether I felt they were responsible for her death or not.

This is just how I feel about it. Maybe all of you feel differently and that is fine if that's how you feel. I'm not trying to sway anyone any way.

I am not stating that the investigation of JonBenet's death is not anyone's business. That's not what I said. I only feel that it is NOT MY BUSINESS to address them in public.

That's it.

 

Hi, Elle!

I remember sharing with you the trip I took to Boulder and seeing the house firsthand. That was some time ago - you have a great memory!!!

The house was vacant then. Now the owners have a huge gate around the whole property. . .

 

Some posts stay with me, Freespirit, while others vanish. I believe you were the only one I had come in contact with, back then, who had been to the Ramsey home. Tricia and a few other posters here have been. At least you weren't confronted with gates back then. I still feel it should have been bulldozed to the ground.

My video tape for "Perfect Murder Perfect Town" was ruined, and I bought a DVD from Amazon. On this one, they have a section where Lawrence Schiller talks about the movie being made, while it runs in the background. He said they built a set of the Ramsey home, so at least I have the house and the rooms on tape. He was saying he learned a lot from Linda Hoffman Pugh when she became his housekeeper. I'll bet he did!

You keep coming back like an old penny! I Never forget the people I posted with. You were one of the best!

 

That's your right, Freespirit, and I respect that.

Speaking for myself, though, there isn't much that could hold me back from confronting someone I believe killed his/her/their child and got away with it.

 

I have no feathers......

I wish that I did though. I'd be too busy using them for flight for any ruffling to happen anyways.

RR

 

I might not be able to hide my feelings if there were no doubt of a murderer's guilt. Even then, I wouldn't heckle him/her - maybe just be polite but 'cool' in my interactions with them.

It's not nice to be accused of things of which you didn't do. Recently, I've been falsely accused of several bizarre and ludicrous activities by a poster on another forum. Fortunately, in my case, the poster in question is quite nutz and has a history of making fantastic accusations against anyone who inadvertently steps on her toes.

Hurling accusations of murderer at the Ramseys without them ever having been tried and convicted isn't justice IMO - it's just bullying. If the accusations had been for hindering the investigation, it might be a different matter because there is no doubt they are worthy of the strongest criticism in that respect. However, I personally think it is wrong for individuals who weren't there and who have never even seen the police files to assume the role of judge, juror and hangman. The RST can no more claim that they *know* the Ramseys are innocent any more than anyone else can claim they *know* they are guilty - because none of us were there. No-one is forming an opinion based upon ALL of the evidence (except the investigators and they ain't talking!)

If there was conclusive evidence of Ramsey guilt - then they would have been brought to trial in the same way as if there were conclusive evidence of their innocence then they would have been cleared. The fact is - it's a mystery and for that reason (like it or not) , the Ramseys have the right to the presumption of inocence - a right we all have (and thank heavens for it).

I think it's always better to give someone the benefit of the doubt - on the understanding that "woe betide" if it turns out that they are lying.

 

ROFL! My father used to have a saying that something would "put feathers on you" - meaning that it was irritating/stressful. I drew a cartoon of him with feather popping out all over his body.

Feathers might be quite nice.... cover up the wrinkles anyway.

 

I don't think I ever said I would call the Ramseys murderers. I'm not that stupid. I would not be afraid to tell them how I believe they stonewalled and obstructed the investigation, with the help of their buttboys in the DA's office and Lou Smit and some political pull on the defense team.

 

Jayelles,

If I may, I'd like to just say that the presumption of innocence - IS - the cornerstone of justice here in the good ol US of A. However...I believe that cornerstone or right applies to the court room and players in it esp if not absolutely the impaneled jury for a specific case. The rest of us mere mortals can conjuncture away at any time about what we think. Our opinion does not hold any water as far as the legality of the situation is concerned. So having said that we can opine all we want to about how we see the Ramseys fit into the innocence or guilty picture without anyone calling us to task legally. It is only an opinion.

 

FreeSpirit, you certainly did phrase your "reap what you sew" speech in a manner that sounded a lot like you were preaching to others. That's how it came across to me, anyway.

But I respect your right to your opinion.

However, I have lived near Atlanta for many years now, so I took it personally when the parents of a murdered child moved there after admonishing us to fear for OUR children, all the while doing everything in their considerable financial power to hinder the BPD from FINDING that same child killer. After all, if that "intruder" was after the Rams, whose to say "he" wasn't coming to the Atlanta area, as well?

Not that the Ramseys were worried one bit about Burke being a target, skateboarding around his neighborhood and with no body guard nor enabled security system in use...as John's encounter with the Gentleman Burglar proved.

And no, Jayelles, the Ramseys do not get the presumption of innocence in public opinion: that's only guaranteed in a court of law.

When one becomes a public figure, voluntarily, by going on TV and writing a book, then one gets what one asked for. In the Ramseys' case, thousands of people were put in the position of worrying if some child killer was coming in their home in the middle of the night one day BECAUSE THE RAMSEYS TOLD US ON NATIONAL TV THAT HAPPENED TO THEM, and that "intruder" has never been caught. Guess what? That makes one CARE enough to look closer at what they are claiming. And that makes one QUESTION what they are claiming. And that puts people in the position of HAVING to decide if they believe the Ramseys or NOT. As a parent, how can you ignore a danger pushed in your face like that? Think of how the parents in Boulder felt when they heard that?

Upon closer examination, and god knows we've had years and years of that, if you don't believe the Ramseys are telling the truth, if you perceive the Ramseys to be hindering the investigation for reasons not close to reasonable, considering the risks of not apprehending a child killer, then it's a short trip to forming an opinion that the Ramseys are involved somehow. Presumption of innocence in public opinion LOST: no Ramsey intruder, no Ramsey child killer after our children.

And that's my opinion. The Ramseys gave it to me.

When they get to court, to be tried for JonBenet's murder, THEN I'll expect and support a presumption of innocence WITH THE JURY. But that doesn't mean I'm going to instantly change my own opinion, formed through 9 years of research and looking at evidence, REAL EVIDENCE, SOLID EVIDENCE, in this murder--INCLUDING THE FACT THAT THE NONE OF THE EVIDENCE, LIKE THE RANSOM NOTE, THE GARROTE, AND THE FIBER EVIDENCE FOUND ON THE BODY, HAS BEEN TRACED TO ANYONE OUTSIDE THE RAMSEY HOME, AS WELL AS THE RAMSEYS' OWN WORDS AND ACTIONS IN LE INTERVIEWS, DEPOSITIONS, AND THEIR OWN BOOK. (This is not insignificant evidence.) If the prosecution can't muster "beyond a reasonable doubt" with the jury, then the defendants will go free, LEGAL PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE intact. If the defendants show me some convincing evidence that there was an intruder, then and only then will I change my opinion about the Ramseys part in this murder. But no one, no where, has shown me that yet, so my opinion remains unchanged.

Would I ever confront the Ramseys in public? I doubt it very much. John and JAR have been violent in public to people just taking their picture. I believe Patsy is up to her neck in the murder of her own child, a murder that is extremely violent and appalling. If they'd do that to JonBenet, what the heck would they do to me? And I know for a fact that they have enough money to get away with a child murder, so how hard would it be for them to get away with decking me? Call me chicken, but them's the facts in the real world, and I live in the real world. People with money and power do what they want, and they do it with impunity. Ask JonBenet.

But I think the Ramseys, like all of us, as was pointed out, get what they deserve, and if Aurora or anyone has the courage to call them murderers in public, then it's no more than the Ramseys deserve, IMO. I never feel sorry for OJ when someone does the same to him. It's precious little retribution when people have been viciously and deliberately murdered.

If the Ramseys killed JonBenet or helped the killer get away with all the abominations done on this innocent little girl, then they deserve much, much worse, IMO. Like prison.

 

I know this and I think it's one thing to opine on discussion forum like this and quite another to make a public display of a negative personal opinion of another human being - especially when we haven't had the luxury of basing our personal opinion on 100% of the facts.

However, I think I might even be right in thinking that to call the Ramseys murderers in the street might be an offence? i.e. - that as they have the presumption of innocence, to accuse them in this way might be slander/verbal assault? I don't know how the Law stands on this but I suspect it may be on the Ramsey's side.

I guess I think we are only on this earth for a little while and I would hate to think that I had created misery for another human being. We don't know for certain that the Ramseys are murderers, and if they aren't then they are innocent parents whose beloved child was cruelly taken from them. I simply wouldn't be able to live with myself if I thought I had caused them further pain ni their lives. Having said this, if it transpired that they were guilty - beyond all reasonable doubt and that they had lied repeatedly - then I would gladly lock them up along with Bubba .... and throw away the key.