When Patsy Dies

Yeah, that's what I meant!

 

Kk

If I didn't make it clear - I was referring to confronting them in public. I *think* Freespirit was too.

 

Does that mean, then, that I can take them in a dark alley and beat the whoop out of them? Just kidding, jameson. Don't get your panties in a wad.

 

Oh my. You're a braver woman than I, WY. :nervous:

 

Well, this has all become too convoluted for my simple mind, I guess. Alls I know is that the Ramseys have hurt many people in their arrogant and cowardly attempt to keep the truth about who molested and murdered JonBenet from seeing the light of day.

I have no sympathy for them because of this alone. Had they done the right and true thing at any step of the way from that night, I could have left it alone as "not my business." But they haven't, and in my opinion, they never will. The evil deeds of Dec. 25/26th, 1996, have rippled across years and continents. The Ramseys abandoned JonBenet every step of the way. They certainly don't care about those innocent people publicly accused and hurt by the RST.

I'm not advocating anyone to do anything to the Ramseys. Not even the BDA, because that's a long lost cause. I'm just an observer of the truth. So, as FreeSpirit and Aurora said, the Ramseys reap what they sew.

 

I thought my eyes were deceiving me when I first saw that the Ramseys should reap what they "sew." I doubt very much that Patsy Ramsey ever picked up a sewing needle in her life, but I could be wrong.

At any rate, considering the suspicion and scorn they have brought upon themselves, I suspect they have reaped at least some of what they have sown.

 

If I didn't make it clear - I was referring to confronting them in public. I *think* Freespirit was too.


Yes, Jayelles, that is what I was referring to.

 

In a nutshell, here is the difficulty I would find in going up to the Ramseys in public and addressing them. Now please remember, this is just me. I don't expect it to apply to any of you - I'm only telling you my personal feelings about it. My feeling is that if I went up to them and said something that indicated to them that I felt they were responsible for their daughter's death and then somewhere down the road I found out that they were not responsible for her death. . . you guys, I would never get over that. I would feel so horrible for the rest of my life and there would be no way that I could ever take it back. Especially when something happens to Patsy and she passes away. Now for me personally, I couldn't handle that and so I'm not willing to take that chance in my life. I don't know, maybe I'm weird, but I just feel it's not MY business to do that.

 

I understand where you're coming from, Freespirit, and I don't mean this in a mean way, but I hope you are never called to serve on a jury in a murder trial where you have to decide a verdict on the preponderance of the evidence submitted in court.

On the preponderance of the evidence I have seen, not to mention the stonewalling by the Ramseys and the behind the scenes deals made by the corrupt DA's office in Boulder both then and now, I believe the Ramseys were either involved or know who was involved in the murder of their child. Since the mamby pambys in Boulder didn't have the gonads to make an arrest, preferring instead to chase invisible and sterile intruders that never existed except in the minds of a few idiots, JB will most likely never have her day in court. Her parents and their lawyers and inept investigators saw to that.

 

Hi, Watching You,

That's the whole point!!!!!

The Ramseys have NOT been arrested and charged. I am NOT sitting in a jury at a trial. If I was it would then be a completely different circumstance.

I have no problem stating that I believe that the bulk of the evidence (at least what we think we know) points to them. I've said that for years. But, I still don't know 100% that they did it. This is why I could never walk up to them and say something of that nature to them.

Does that make sense? I have no problem convicting people when the evidence is there. I have no problem with people discussing this case and keeping it alive - geeze, somebody has to for JonBenet's sake! My original point was that all this could be done without me addressing the Ramseys in public. I'm not letting them off the hook necessarily by simply feeling that it's not my place to accuse them publicly when I don't know for sure 100% that they are responsible. I'm not as naive as I may sound.

I've been following this case from the begining. I've spent a lot of time blaming the Ramseys and now I feel that was the wrong place to put the blame - especially if they are guilty. The way I look at it, if they are responsible, what do you expect but lies from them? At this point in the game, I am looking to LE, the DA, and all of the other players who failed in providing justice for JonBenet. They continue to fail her time and time again. Regardless of what we think about John and Patsy's actions or non-actions in trying to find the killer of their daugher, or whether or not they cooperated with LE, the bottom line is that it is the responsibility of LE to find out who killed JonBenet. . . whoever that may be.

People say the Ramseys got by with murder because they are wealthy. Personally, I don't buy that. If they are getting by with anything it's because the justice system isn't doing their job and the Ramsey's are reaping the apparent benefits of that. Again, if they ARE guilty, what do you expect? In a perfect world I guess they would confess and turn themselves in if they are responsible, but that's not the way it works. It's up to our justice system to develop enough evidence against them in order to arrest them and it just hasn't happened. We've had the BPD, the DA office, the Grand Jury, how many separate investigators, all of which could not develop enough evidence to have them arrested.

This is just more of my babbling opinion. Take it for what it's worth which isn't much.

 

FreeSpirit, again, that's your opinion and I respect that.

But you really have put the cart before the horse here.

No matter what LE has done, how corrupt the DA is, or even who you believe murdered JonBenet...the killer is the person responsible for that, and only the killer.

I cannot begin to understand how anyone can say the killer is not the person to blame. That's...there are no words.

Without the murder, there would be nothing for the LE/DA to corrupt.

Without the murder, we wouldn't be here.

Without the murder, JonBenet would be a teen, living and breathing and having a life of her own.

Without the murder.... It all begins with the murder, and all the evil deeds that followed begin with the abuse and murder of JonBenet.

That action was committed by the killer, and the killer is the only person who can be called a child murderer here. Not the DA, not LE, not the corrupt justice system.

I have no doubt...NONE...that the Ramseys either murdered JonBenet or know who did and conspired to help that person get away with the murder. I come to this conclusion based on all the evidence, interviews, and books we have had access to study. I believe beyond any doubt that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note, maybe with John helping. The only other remote possibility I can imagine, with the evidence we have, is that JAR was involved heavily in this. Since the Ramseys made sure JAR had an "ironclad alibi" and was "cleared" early on, he's now a remote fourth on my list. Grandpa Paugh or Burke, I only consider as possibly involved in the earlier molestation, with Burke, who was in the home, possibly having a part in an "accident" or in "playing doctor" at some point that brought about the events of that night. But Burke may not have been involved in any way, IMO, and I don't think the DA or LE believes he was or they'd have closed the case long ago, without pointing the finger at numerous "suspects" to the tune of over $2 million and the personal and professional detriment of many. Until someone confesses, I'll always wonder if Grandpa Paugh was an incestor that brought Patsy and JonBenet to the events of that night. We'll never know because no one will ever confess.

Any way you slice it, the Ramseys are either the direct killers or accomplices to child murder, IMO.

But as I stated, I would never put MYSELF through "confronting" the Ramseys in public. It's not that I would be shy. Remember, I am 100% convinced this family viciously molested and murdered their own youngest member. I'm not in the habit of grabbing snakes by the tail, either.

On the other hand, if they asked me...I'd tell them in a heartbeat exactly what I believe about them.

I think you're just a very nice person, FreeSpirit. Nothing wrong with that.

JMO

 

Hi Greenleaf

Hi Greenleaf!

Thanks! Nice to meet you too!

-LA 90'

 

Well I think you are precisely the kind of person I'd hope to have on my jury if I were charged with something! I'd want to have people who wouldn't make their mind up until they'd seem all of the evidence - and not just those bits of evidence which got leaked to the press.

I think it's a different matter being on a jury where it is you job to decide whether someone is a murderer or not. If we all acted out on our opinions, it wouldn't be a very civilised world.

 

I don't know if you've noticed or not, Jayelles, but t's NOT a very civilized world when people like the Ramseys get away with, at the very least, covering up the murder of their own child and probably even being involved in that murder.

I don't think any of us are really that far apart on this. It sort of got blown out of proportion. I don't think anyone here would go up to the Ramseys in a public place and make a fool of him/herself by calling them murderers. As I said, I'm not that stupid, and neither is anyone else who posts here.

Freespirit, in the spirit of what you said, you must admit that even in a jury trial, you can't always be 100 percent sure that the person you are sentencing to life in prison or the death chamber committed the crime for which he was indicted. How would you handle that, knowing that though the rule of law is guilty beyond a REASONABLE doubt applies, but you might still have a niggling doubt of guilt. I honestly can't see a whole lot of difference between your feelings about calling the Ramseys murderers, just because they haven't been arrested, and convicting someone of murder in a courtroom, based on the criteria you set forth. Here is what you said, and this is what I am responding to:

So, what is the difference between your feelings on the Ramseys and your feelings in a court of law if you were not 100 percent convinced, yet you had to go by the rule of law. Reasonable doubt does not mean no doubt at all. There have been many jury decisions that have not been decided on 100 percent belief in guilt.

I know I'm probably not explaining this well. Take away the legal aspects of it and deal only with your own feelings. There is absolutely no difference between your not wanting to make a mistake with the Ramseys' guilt and not wanting to make a mistake while serving on a jury. I am talking about the personal aspect of your feelings, and based upon your own words, I don't know if you could make a decision in a murder case withiout having these very same feelings.

Jayelles, it doesn't have anything to do with whether one could sit on a jury without prejudging. I can honestly tell you that I could sit on a Ramsey jury and follow the letter of the law, regardless of any preconceived ideas I have. I could put aside everything I know and start at the beginning and be fair. That's the kind of person I am. However, we aren't talking about a court of law, here. We are talking about feelings, not law. And, it is my feeling that the Ramseys got away with murder. It's an opinion, not a judgment.

I will agree that LE screwed this case up, but I do not blame the BPD as much as I blame the good old boys in the DA's office and the powerful legal team the Ramseys hired. There was a lot of corruption in that office, and they are the ones who destroyed any chance of this case ever getting to court.

Wealth did play a part in this case. Hadden et al do not work for chump change. They are the elite of the elite law firms in Colorado. Joe Blow could not afford to pay the huge legal fees Hadden gets. The Ramseys could afford it. It's as simple as that.

 

Dear WY,

Do you really believe that there is NO difference between the court of public opinion and being in a court of law?

Here's a perfect example: Two weeks ago I believed Patsy was on her death bed because that is what was being said. . . and then last weekend I saw her with my own two eyes shopping in downtown Charlevoix!!

This is is what I mean about thinking we know all of the evidence. Do we really know it all, WY? It a court, the facts and evidence would be argued out more explicitly.

 

Dear Koldcase,

"FreeSpirit, again, that's your opinion and I respect that.

But you really have put the cart before the horse here.

No matter what LE has done, how corrupt the DA is, or even who you believe murdered JonBenet...the killer is the person responsible for that, and only the killer.

I cannot begin to understand how anyone can say the killer is not the person to blame. That's...there are no words."

Do you really read my posts, or just scan them? What I said was that the LE were the ones who were responsible for finding the killer of JonBenet.

 

You are not understanding my point, Freespirit, but right now I don't have time to get into it again - I'm on the run and will be out of commission until Monday. I will get into it with you again, then, if I remember. CRS these days.

I do understand what you are saying, and I agree to a point. However, I'm going a little deeper into your personal feelings.

Catch you on the rebound..

 

This forum isn't a typical case discussion forum. I believe that after this many years, discussions and forums, our membership is the more pro-active type regarding the injustice JonBenet's Mother and Father bought.

I gave up any hope and prayers for a sign years ago that anyone other than Mommy or Daddy hurt this baby. I don't comment on cases where I am iffy on the suspects..........but this is the one I couldn't let pass by without screaming out in any and every way possible.

RR

 

Okay, WY, I'll give this a bit more thought and hopefully catch up with you next week. Maybe I'm missing something, but thank you for responding.