Who made this hanging noose?

Yes, a true lasso would be bigger, but there is the possibility that it was made by one of the kids who was unaware, at that point in his or her development, as to the actual size of a lasso. (For example, I'm sure you've seen drawings kids have made of family members next to their house and it turns out that the people are as big as the house itself.)


-Tea

 

I know that there was prior discussions regarding this photo but it wasn't regarding the noose. Something about the trim on one of their outfits resembling the "garrotte" cord? Is this ringing a bell for anyone else?!

 

Heymom, the stuff behind Patsy that I can make out: a boot in the lower part of the picture; a straw cowboy hat or some kind of similar hat is lying the lap of the dummy right behind Patsy, with what looks to be a very long scarf tied around it, trailing in front of the dummy; light-colored gloves with a frilly top edge, with dark trim of some kind, like gardening gloves for women, are on the "hands" of the dummy behind Patsy.

I also noticed JonBenet is either holding the ribbon to the balloon, or possibly it's tied to her wrist. Another weird coincidence, if it's tied to her wrist. It's hard to tell, though, but you can see the end of the balloon ribbon sticking out below JonBenet's hand. She is holding a lollipop loosely with her fingers, which is why I wonder if the balloon ribbon is tied to her wrist, which has a dark line across it, but that could be a shadow. LE needs to have the original picture and a FBI level analysis of this picture, IMO, to find out what this picture reveals. Then those people from the school who worked on this display in any way need to be questioned, IMO. 10 years ago. Oh, well....

Heymom, don't you have a "magnifier" in your computer programs, or is your computer an older one? If you have Windows XP, maybe you just haven't noticed it: look under the slide out list of "All programs", at "Accessories", then "accessibility", you'll see "Magnifier". It's kind of a weird little program, but you can figure it out: once you click on it, it will show up at the bottom of your page and you use your pointer at the top to magnify whatever you want to see. You can change the magnification level, also. Then there's the "100%" down at the right of your screen, where you can change magnification, as well. I use both of these a lot. That might help you. The downside of these is the larger you go, the more blurry the pic becomes. Sometimes that makes things pop out that you didn't see before, but other things are no longer defined at all.

 

BAM! Bingo!!! Acting - pretending - playing a part that is not real is pretty much lying and when you toss in Patsy's marketing and advertising expertise, you get away with murder on this planet.

 

Rat, Patsy was a PRO at acting, as well. Remember that she placed and won in numerous "dramatic interpretation" contests for her school, state and national. That's where Linda McLean met Patsy, when Linda coached the Parkersburg High School team. This is a big thing in schools, because it's often part of a school-wide competition for an annual trophy which includes all kinds of competitions in student activities. I used to coach our high school drama program to compete in this same kind of statewide contest, and I also coached and attended various speech competitions, as well. Those who competed successfully at state and national levels were GOOD, and I mean few actors on Broadway had anything on these talented kids.

And then Patsy won a talent competition scholarship at the Miss A Pageant, remember? With her acting.

Patsy might have been an amateur, but she knew how to play a role with all her heart. That's what she did, IMO, after the murder. I believe this murder wasn't planned, and that she was devastated once JonBenet's skull was cracked. I believe she was shocked, and I believe she loved JonBenet. What I don't believe is that "the Ramseys couldn't do this", meaning have an accident they needed to cover up if they didn't want their friends and family to learn their darkest secret: that JonBenet was being molested, and this pre-dated some terrible sequence of events that night.

I also don't believe Patsy gave a whit for anyone outside her exclusive world, so she had no problem with conscience when others were devastated by their "suspect" status as child molesters and killers. When I read the latest Globe garbage about this case, it made me very sad to see all those BUS VICTIMS being dragged out AGAIN by the RST. Even dead McReynolds and Helgoth--who never had the chance to defend himself since he was dead before the RST singled him out for a public character rape, all while his helpless family watches in horror.

Disgusting.

 

Yes, rashomon. I agree. EasyWriter (D. England) tried very hard to find justice for JonBenét Ramsey. One cannot blame him for staying away. He certainly put up a good argument, and if the slip knot/s couldn't tighten it had to be a fake garrote

 

Again I am surprised how anyone can argue the garrote didn't work, when we can see that it clearly did in the autopsy pictures? Even more, I'm surprised that not having everyone nod their heads in agreement is considered reason to leave.

But that's really another thread, and not my point in starting this one. I guess really, there is no point anymore. It's just a bad habit by now.

 

Compliments of KoldKase:

 

KK, my understanding is that Delmar England was proving that the knot in the cording around JonBenet's neck was not made for any sex games that would involve tightening, then loosening, the knot. Not that it could not be tightened, which it seems to have been, looking at the autopsy photographs, but that there was no accidental asphyxiation from a sexual game of "choking," or whatever. I think he said that once tightened, this knot would not loosen again, so it was not made with any other aim than to stay on JonBenet's neck until she lost consciousness permanently. That was my understanding, maybe I've already forgotten...

And of course he said it was in no way a "garrotte," meant specifically to kill JonBenet, but a clumsy knot which did contribute to her death, although almost by accident.

 

John Ramsey and Lou Smit wanted it to be termed "garrote" IMO because that held such a diabolical connotation, but it sure wasn't a garrote in the technical sense.

Here's what was in PMPT: Page 214 & 215 PMPT Hard back

The autopsy calls it a cord - Lou Smit calls it a rope.
The autopsy termed it a ligature - Lou Smit termed it a garrote.

Ligature: n 1: Something that binds or ties: BAND, BOND; This is the term used by the expert/pathologist.
Garrote: n 1. A method of execution by strangling with an iron collar; also the iron collar used. 2. Strangulation especially for the purpose of robbery; also an implement for this purpose.

Which word causes the most emotion?
Why do you suppose they choose the words they do?

 

I agree! I believe that she made it. I think that it is supposed to be a lasso (because of the Western theme)...but, looks more like a noose to me. So, this...to me...proves that Patsy was familiar with making lassos, nooses, and garottes..explains the reason that her fibers were found entwined in the garotte.

 

John even went so far as to call it a "twister" in his 1998 interview. I will post it if needed. I know that man is COLD...but GOOD GRIEF!!! I might add...I looked up the word garotte..and found that the SPANISH name for it is twister.

 

Jmpo, but the only thing that worked in that so-called 'garrote' was that the stager of the scene somehow got a knot to lock. Any kindergartner able to tie a shoelace can get a knot to lock too. So, contrary to Team Ramsey's claims, there was nothing complicated and 'sohisticated' about the knot tied around the neck. In addition, those multiple cord wrappings around the stick were not needed in order to get the knot to lock, which points to this stick having been a mere staging prop added to create a bizarre-looking scene.

That was exactly D. England's point, Heymom. According to C. Wecht, JonBenet died in some kinky erotic asphyxiation game, where the cord was alternately tightened and loosened, but since the neck knot had obviously been tied first and had locked, any subsequent pulling at the 17-inch cord with the wooden stick would have had no effect at all. For it would not have loosend the knot. Also, a soft flat nylon cord is totally unsuitable for any tightening and loosening action, for the material will make slipping of the knot very difficult.

jmo

 

delmar

Not only claimed the knot couldn't slide - he also said the cord was not tight enough to be a cause of asphixiation and that the swelling of her head was post mortem swelling and the petechiae were not related to the cord around her neck. In other words - the cord was just tied on for staging and simply became tighter due to post mortem swelling.

I believe the cord was part of the staging but also believe there was some asphixia going on also.

 

On second thought, maybe it was one of Burke's classmates who made the noose because

"Burke's job was making lemonade and serving cookies."

I wonder ~ after 11 years ~ if any of the kids who went to the party would remember who made it.

 

Creating a scene was Patsy's forte. "Over the top" was a good description of her many creations. The one we discuss was also over the top, bizarre yes, but that quality was probably not the goal. I think there was method to her madness.

 

The cord tied around the neck may well have cut off the last oxygen supply to JonBenet who was already in a deep coma and nearing death from the head injury.
What is interesting in the autopsy report: the only signs of strangulation listed are the petechiae around the neck ligature. No internal neck injuries, no tongue indentations - nothing. This indicates imo that this cord was put on an inert and unresisting body and points miles away from any violent strangulation in which the victim fought back against her attacker.

jmo

 

If the Ramseys used manual strangulation to end JonBenét's life, wasn't it Deja Nubee, the FFJ poster (Forensic Psychologist) who stated it then became a Homicide?

What does it matter now? Patsy Ramsey died without spending one day in jail, while John Ramsey roams free. Nothing will ever be done about it. End of story!

 

Agree. I don't think JonBenet was strangled in any normal sense. I think she may already have stopped breathing when the cord was placed.

 

But what if the Ramseys thought JonBenet was already dead and the strangulation scene was done for mere staging purposes? While it would still be technically a homicide, intent to kill could not be proved in such a case.

jmo