Who made this hanging noose?

In order to be strangled to death, you must be breathing. The petechial hemorrhages were also present in the eyelids, I think. That requires a pumping heart, doesn't it?

The reason no bones or tissues deep in the neck were injured during the strangulation is because the ligature was only embedded in soft tissue when it was pulled so tight. To break the neck bones, etc., would require the compression to be on them. A manual strangulation will often do this. This cord rolled up the neck, entwining the necklace as it rolled. Then it stopped at the top of the neck as it dug in.

I agree, rashomon, no defensive injuries mean JonBenet was unconscious during all the rest. JMO I think the head blow came first and set off the rest, which was a response necessitated by not going to the ER, because then the molestation would be found out, social services and LE called, and the BIG SECRET would come out in the worst way. Perfect Patsy's not so perfect life would be publicly exposed. John's position with his company would be ruined with the scandal. Someone would be going to jail, prison, protective custody, etc.

I don't believe any erotic asphxiation games were going on, either. Perhaps the ligature was made without any intention of strangling JonBenet, but it did. So if that's Delmar's point, I can see that. Like I said on another thread, there are many variations and theories that work as well as any other with what we do know of the evidence. Hence, this is why no one who really had means and opportunity was ever arrested. I believe the motive is obvious, for the cover up, at least--sexual molestation, but others don't think so.

The one thing I really want to know is if LE has evidence we don't know about, which they won't ever reveal, which in fact DOES incriminate a particular "suspect". It has been said that LE has MORE evidence of prior sexual molestation, but the person who said that--Fedorax-- won't say what that is nor how she knows. So what are we to do with such statements? Not much.

It's been 11 years. And still, there are people who claim to know stuff about this case they won't publicize, evidence which incriminates one or the other suspect. These people still believe that there is going to be a trial. Or they have to "protect their sources", like anyone cares anymore. I wish for once people would get a grip and just put the truth out there, because there is NEVER going to be a trial!

 

I understand your question, and it's a good one which obviously would have to be decided by the DA. But I would think that reckless endangerment/manslaughter would apply here, especially with the chronic and acute molestation injuries. Also, child molestation does bring charges, if it was an adult perp.

But Elle is right about this: all moot now.

 

Who knows, JC? But I still think someone in LE should be ASKING. Maybe it was one of the children other than a Ramsey. Maybe it's innocent and not connected at all. But it really needs to be investigated, doesn't it? I mean, this child was found with a ligature which strangled her not long after this picture was made. The PRIME QUESTION really has been, from DAY ONE, WHO STRANGLED HER? That's what killed her, that's how she died. Answer that one, and all the rest falls into place, IMO.

 

I think the question who delivered the head blow is equally important. The autopsy report lists as cause of death "asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma".

Who strangled her? In all probability, it was Patsy who put the cord around JonBenet's neck. At least this is the inference one can draw from the forensic evidence found at the crime scene. Fibers from the jacket she had worn to the Whites' party were all found in incriminating locations connected to JonBenet's death: in the paint tote from which the brush was taken, in the wrappings of the garrote handle, on the sticky side of the duct tape and on the blanket which covered the body.

Moot yes, in the sense that no one will ever be brought to justice for this crime, but as long as this tragic case is being discussed publicly on forums, this will stay a thorn in John Ramsey's side, for he certainly would like it all to be swept under the carpet and be forgotten.

jmo

 

The only thing about that is how many eight or nine year olds know how to make a noose?? That would be a little bit more complicated than Burke's job of making lemonade and serving cookies. I am sure that Patsy made the lemonade and the cookies....and probably the noose, which I believe is supposed to be a lasso. I bet that the teacher would probably remember who made it. Somebody needs to be making a phone call to that Elementary School.

 

KK, do you have any idea when the picture was taken? It looks to me, like it was probably that same year, maybe Oct. or something. Patsy looks pretty skinny in the picture though, so it could have been from 1995.

 

not necessary

It isn't necessary to cut off oxygen supply until death if there is a vagal response. There is a nerve that runs through the neck that can cause the heart rate to slow way down and can even cause death. A true garrote can be very effective in seconds because of this nerve. I don't believe there was a true garrote involved in this case and certainly the person using it probably had no idea how to use a garrote but could accidently press right where it counts.

I don't believe everything Wecht says but he does explain this possibility in his book and he would probably have some knowledge of the method.

 

Yes, rashomon,it would be very hard to prove. I personally think JonBenét was already dead from the blow to the head, whether she was thrown with great force against the tub or another solid object in the bathroom, which is how I see it happening, because if this was the case, then it was accidental, but when it comes to a heavy object being used to strike her on the head, then this changes my thinking entirely to murder.

 

Yes, I think it should be investigated, too.

 

She might. It wouldn't hurt to ask.

 

Ames, you missed the poster in the background, but not our sharp-eyed Rat: it says "1996". Since Burke and JonBenet are wearing shorts, it had to be either late spring or early fall, I'd guess.

 

It would be early fall. You've probably heard of a "school round-up," where they have an open house and meet the teachers, etc. It probably happened in mid-to-late August a week before school started and a couple of weeks after JonBenet's sixth birthday.

 

DUHHHH....and I am pretty observant. I must have been focusing too much on the noose. I have to agree, I believe it was early fall...probably right about the time that school started. In Montana, the elem. school where my daughter was going to attend, had a Kindergarten Round Up...just right before school started. It was basically the same thing, except that Patsy wasn't there to help with the decorations....Thank God!!

 

I agree. I saw your post after I wrote mine. I need to read all of the posts before replying to any from now on.

 

We need to contact that school....any volunteers???

 

I volunteer...someone else!

Don't expect anyone in the Ramsey true blue crowd to speak freely to strangers about this, or anything else related to them. The Ramseys wrapped that up long ago, and the media frenzy is also to blame. No one wants to :talk: about this case in Boulder. If you even mention it in comparison on the Daily Camera blog site for the Midyette trials, someone always comes in with nasty personal attacks, and others say keep the Ramsey case out of it, etc. They do not want to be reminded that Jason isn't the first child murdered in their perfect little town, then covered up with influence and power.

 

I would call, but I don't want John to sue me. They probably wouldn't tell me anything anyway....except maybe cuss me out or something.

 

I emailed D. England about the noose shown in the picture. His reply:

 

Damn!

 

Well, then, the "noose/lasso/loop" would be consistent with Delmar's original analysis of the ligature/garrote: clumsily made by someone who doesn't "know" knots, or garrotes, or nooses, or lassos.

I don't know what this "noose/lasso" is supposed to be, as I can see, once Chero blew it up for me, that it's got all kinds of problems. One thing that may or may not be interesting, since it's still hard to tell/see, is the "knot" on the right side of the larger "loop", which appears to be tying two pieces of rope, or maybe two ends or parts, together. If you look carefully, it looks a bit like a knot there. I have used various magnifiers in trying to figure out what is going on with this concoction, and it almost looks like you can see a couple of rope "ends" mixed in that configuration on the right and at the bottom of the loop. I just can't tell enough to say exactly what this is or how it is put together.

I still think it needs to be investigated. I mean, they can go all the way to Thailand to bring home a perv whose only link to the crime is play acting with Michael Tracey, why can't they ASK about a rope tied in such a way, this close to the victim from her OWN SCHOOL FUNCTION?

Just sayin'....

Anyhow, thanks for asking, rashomon, and for taking the time to look at it and respond, Easywriter.