Why Ramseys *and* Karr must be innocent

In my post #12, I said: I think an "inside job" was what the Ramseys were going for by using the approximate amount of John's bonus in the fake ransom note. They were trying to point the finger at someone at Access Graphics who might have known the amount.

To continue the thought, here's an excerpt from Schiller's Perfect Murder, Perfect Town: pb p.578

"That same week, Lou Smit received a letter from John Ramsey, who gave the investigator his list of suspects in his daughter's murder: Jeff Merrick, Mick Glynn, and Jim Marino - all of whom had once worked for him - and Bill McReynolds, who had been Santa at their Christmas party."

In the fake ransom note, the Ramseys used the approximate amount of John's bonus to try to point the finger AWAY from themselves and toward other people, people who knew about the bonus. In case these "suspects" didn't pan out, John also named Bill "Santa" McReynolds.

 

Dear Bob C:

With your apparent interest in and attention to detail, I can only pray you're not a parachute rigger--or in law enforcement.

I take it you're not a Columbo fan.

The $118,000 figure is no "little detail," and neither are its attendant points regarding the paper, pen and where it had been written in actuality.

John Ramsey was intelligent enough to build a prosperous life for his family and himself. If he had complicit with his late wife in a cover-up for whomever, one would certainly think he would have reviewed the note after his wife had written it, or maybe even dictated it to her.

 

Ditto that; Im with Bob and Vic :thumbsup:

 

Tril - I think an "inside job" was what the Ramseys were going for by using the approximate amount of John's bonus in the fake ransom note. They were trying to point the finger at someone at Access Graphics who might have known the amount.

Very interesting... one of my biggest problems with a Ramsey writing the "ransom note" has always been the naming of the $118,000. First, why would a Ramsey point the finger at him/herself by naming a figure that only they and a few co-workers would know? And second, neither Patsy or John is stupid enough to believe a kidnapper would only ask for $118,000. However, if he/she was trying to point a finger at a co-worker, that makes a little more sense.

BTW, while I don't for a minute believe a "stranger" killed JBR, I don't reject out-of-hand the possibility it was not John or Patsy. I just haven't heard a theory yet that makes me say, "yeah, that makes sense."

 

Dear Trill:

"In the fake ransom note, the Ramseys used the approximate amount of John's bonus to try to point the finger AWAY from themselves and toward other people, people who knew about the bonus. In case these "suspects" didn't pan out, John also named Bill "Santa" McReynolds."

John Ramsey must be a virtual genius in your opinion. He exactly foresaw--under such stress and time constraints--what I (and perhaps others) would think, every single detail, exhibiting a masterful grasp of reverse psychology. If you analyze what you are saying, you are reasoning from conclusion to supporting evidence, and not visa versa. The Ramseys must be guilty, therefore there must be a logical answer to every point that might point in another direction.

"Okay, Patsy, go to the middle of the pad, tear off several pages; then make what would looks like an apparent false start so we can leave it here to give the impression that it was written here; then write an absurd ransom note implicating ourselves so that eveyone will think that it can't be us because it will seem too obvious it is us. Simple!"

The man sure can think on his feet!

 

Maybe you can answer my question Daniel...

Patsy Ramsey told us in her book, she only read the first few lines of the first page on the ransom note.

Then when the 911 tape was released we hear Patsy telling the operator it was signed by SBTC.

How did Patsy know who signed the note if she never saw the last page?

 

what?

 

You subscribe to the "intruder" theory?

You sure came to the worng place!

If God Him/Herself appeared with the message that JR and PR were innocent the "some here" would wonder how PR convinced God to lie for her.

 

God wouldn't lie...he'd say look at the evidence.

 

How about - The Ramseys must be innocent, therefore there must be a logical answer to every point that might point in another direction. Six of one, half dozen of the other?

 

Dear Show Me:

"Maybe you can answer my question Daniel...

Patsy Ramsey told us in her book, she only read the first few lines of the first page on the ransom note.

Then when the 911 tape was released we hear Patsy telling the operator it was signed by SBTC.

How did Patsy know who signed the note if she never saw the last page?
Today Thu Aug 24 17:09:38 CDT 2006 "

--One of the aspects of this case that first allowed me to think along the lines that the Ramseys might be innocent was the 911 call. Others have related likewise. The late Mrs. Ramsey must have been a virtuoso natural actress.

When the 911 operator asked if the kidnappers said who they were (or words to that effect), Mrs. Ramsey obviously quickly--and quite logically-- went to the bottom of the final page, as where else does one look for a signature to any sort of letter? That doesn't mean she had read the entire letter before the 911 call.

 

Shadow... I still wonder if Jeff Merrick was the Ramseys' #1 target. He was let go by Access on very unfriendly terms, and claimed John owed him around $118,000. (Merrick eventually settled for less.) Someone overheard Merrick say he was going to get John Ramsey. Merrick sent a fax to Lockheed, the parent company, complaining of how badly John treated employees.

The detailed story on Merrick is in PMPT pb page 87

I firmly believe one of the three Rs is the killer and that Patsy penned the note, perhaps guided by John as to what the note should say.

 

Patsy was on the phone, John was reading the note on his hands and knees by the spiral stairs....they were apart by at least 10 feet.

Man that Patsy must have some eyesight!

Daniel why do you think John let Patsy call over the Whites, then the Fernies, Father Rol and who else....when the note told John he was being MONITORED by kidnappers who would behead his daughter if he so much as talked to a stray dog?

Man that John is sharp! Heck, he only needed to avoid inviting stray dogs over, monitoring kidnappers surely wouldn't mind a few other guests over...just NO DOGS ALLOWED.

 

Yeah, Tril, I read PMPT a long time ago - I remember the part about Jeff Merrick. THanks for the reminder! (I'm very old and forgetful.)

I always wondered the same thing Show Me... makes one think JR wasn't too concerned about being "monitored."

 

Hello! First post here - thanks for letting me join.

I have always felt that John suspected from the beginning, but didn't actually "know" til a little later.

When police first showed up at the house, Patsy was just sitting there (faux crying and peeking out between her fingers).

John was pacing. Pacing indicates to me that he didn't know quite what was going on, and was doing a lot of thinking about it.

Later on, he was sitting there brooding. IMO, that's when the truth was starting to sink in, and he was pondering on what to do next.

 

How about letting Patsy tell it?

PR: “Well, I read - I came back down and John had it, you know,
on
the floor, and what not, and I was glancing at it, and somewhere
I thought in there, because I didn’t read it line by line, I
looked over to see who it was from, and I didn’t know who that
was. And somewhere I caught in there where it said, ‘If you call
some’ - ‘Don’t call the police,’ of - wherever it said that. Oh,
here, ‘police, FBI, et cetera, ‘your daughter being held.’ And I
read that and I mean, my blood just went cold. You know, I
couldn’t-“

PR: He was just in his underwear and he, uh, took the note and I
remember him being down hunched on the floor...with all three
pages out like that reading it and uh, and he said, “Call 911.â€
(Police Files, pg. 63)

PR. He, I remember him, while I was calling 911, he was hunched
over the note and had it laid out there on the floor ‘cause there
was a light. It was kind of darkish and there was a light,
hallway light on...he was, you know, reading it there. (Ibid, pg
69)

The scene described is John on his hands and knees reading the
note in a kitchen-adjacent “darkish†hallway around the corner
from the phone location while Patsy is frantically calling 911.
As the story goes, while calling from a standing position some
distance removed, Patsy divides her focus between her exchange
with the 911 operator and glancing over, under, or around John
and reads ‘daughter being held,’ etc. in the note, including the
end, “SBTC, Victory†without even a crack in the tempo of her
conversation with the 911 operator. Wow! That’s really something
isn’t it?

One more thing, David XVI, I’m still waiting for you to tell me
about the evidence of an intruder and answer a few questions.

 

Dear ZMAN and all:

I have not been as interested in this case as are apparently many of you here are. I didn't realize beforehand there were such things as pro- or anti-Ramsey family camps and forums; except, of course, among those with a personal connection and emotional involvement. Truth is all that matters in such a case.

Of course I want to think the Ramseys innocent. They lost their daughter in a horrible manner. Why would anyone want them also to be guilty of her murder? Anyone disagree? Still, I--or no one--should let that quite natural sentiment influence an objective airing and examination of the known facts.

Discourse on this issue should be made along strictly rational and logical grounds, and civilly. I perosnally have absolutely nothing to gain by advancing my theory, or by being right or wrong. How many of you are any different?

Could I be wrong? Yes. I believe that only one person living knows for sure, as the boy might well have been asleep and knows nothing more than what his parents told him. Unless, of course, the intruder theory is correct.

You could be wrong as well. Let's all keep that in mind.

 

Oy vey... Daniel, you pointed the finger at a pageant parent being the killer but you still haven't answered my question: How would a pageant parent know about the $118.000? How would a pageant parent know what time the Rams would be home, or what time they would be asleep?

Really, this is going nowhere fast.

 

Hi Wenchie, did you post at WS?

Not only did John pace he went upstairs and looked into the alley with binoculars and saw a STRANGE van.

After watching it for a few minutes (not sure what exactly John was looking for) he decided...MONITORING THREATENING KIDNAPPERS couldn't possibly be in the van. John was sooooooo sure of this he neglected to tell the cops to check out the STRANGE van. (From DOI, the Ramseys own book.)

Yet John wanted to cordone off the city of Boulder!!!!

 

Patsy was on the phone, John was reading the note on his hands and knees by the spiral stairs....they were apart by at least 10 feet.

Man that Patsy must have some eyesight!

Daniel why do you think John let Patsy call over the Whites, then the Fernies, Father Rol and who else....when the note told John he was being MONITORED by kidnappers who would behead his daughter if he so much as talked to a stray dog?

Man that John is sharp! Heck, he only needed to avoid inviting stray dogs over, monitoring kidnappers surely wouldn't mind a few other guests over...just NO DOGS ALLOWED.