Why Ramseys *and* Karr must be innocent

The intruder theory makes absolutely no sense at all. There are only two possibilities: 1) A member of the family did it and wrote the note to point the finger at someone else or 2) someone who hated the Ramseys killed JBR and wrote the note to frame them. If Fleet White, Santa, or anyone else named by the RST was molesting JBR and killed her on purpose or by accident, they would have gotten the hell out of that house NOW - they would not have written a note.

I will give number 2 above consideration if a good case is presented - so far, I haven't seen one.

 

Look, I only jumped from page one to this page because I passed out and am way behind, so take what I'm saying with a grain of dummy....

If Daniel has a theory that makes him happy, I'm ok with that. Sounds like he's just where many of us were long ago. Maybe he'll get to the truth...or not.

The thing is, jams closed her forum for non-paying guests. She's trying to capitalize again. Maybe not everyone cares about the $25 so much, but maybe they don't want to give her their personal info and have her...an obvious person with issues...calling them at home.

So as long a people remain respectful and tempers don't flare too much, I hope we can keep the discussion going for those who do have a differernt opinion. Besides, sometimes people do come up with things we haven't thought of, no matter what the theory.

Look at Jayelles. She's been wrong for almost 10 years now , and she's just put up a very convincing experiment that goes a long way in showing Patsy lied to LE in Atlanta in 2000. Way to go, Jayelles. :takeabow:

 

Dear Cherokee:

"What you said is what many of us here at FFJ have been saying for years. Intruders don't stage crime scenes in other people's home. PERIOD."

--Except when the killer has framing the residents of the home as a premeditated part of his or her motive.

 

ok.....I was actually applauding this post! Excellent! (my golden got all excited....he thought I wanted to play ball)


:yay: :yay: :yay:

 

Well, Daniel, we've of course heard this argument before, and it's a theory.

But please explain why the Ramseys would help the intruder frame them with their own behavior post-murder: refusing to help LE; lying to them; etc.

 

who said

the stationary (actually note pad) was numbered?

 

To all:

For those of you who think that Patsy Ramsey killed her daughter and wrote the note, do any of you think that there is any possibilty that her husband could have been in the dark and could be to this very day?

Thank you.

 

At least the intruder was compassionate.....he fed JB pineapple before he/she murdered her.

 

:unreal: NO

You're Welcome

 

Dear Texan:

If there is any possibilty it wasn't, then please tell me that right now and all of this is moot, and I am very wrong. Please go to my original note and see where I got this from, indirectly from Detective Steve Thomas, a very vocal anti-Ramsey former cop.

If it wasn't numbered, then what had he been referring to?

Thank you.

 

Ah hem Daniel WHY WONT YOU ANSWER MY QUESTIONS?

No rebuttal?

Patsy was on the phone, John was reading the note on his hands and knees by the spiral stairs....they were apart by at least 10 feet.

Man that Patsy must have some eyesight!

Daniel why do you think John let Patsy call over the Whites, then the Fernies, Father Rol and who else....when the note told John he was being MONITORED by kidnappers who would behead his daughter if he so much as talked to a stray dog?

Man that John is sharp! Heck, he only needed to avoid inviting stray dogs over, monitoring kidnappers surely wouldn't mind a few other guests over...just NO DOGS ALLOWED.

Can you see the question?

Here it is again

Daniel why do you think John let Patsy call over the Whites, then the Fernies, Father Rol and who else....when the note told John he was being MONITORED by kidnappers who would behead his daughter if he so much as talked to a stray dog?

 

Maybe it's a small point, Daniel, but why did you take the enumeration of the pages of a pad of lined paper as being NUMBERED rather than COUNTED? When I read this account, it never occurred to me that Steve Thomas was saying anything other than the pad's stub was compared to known pages and accounted for. I never thought he was saying they were numbered.

And let's talk about the forest for the trees...You are so focused on the idea of the middle of the pad, the number of pages that you completely missed the point:
WHY WOULD ANY INTRUDER WRITE THIS LETTER (and it's a LETTER not a note, btw)?? It makes no sense whatsoever that an intruder would write this.

Who would benefit from a "ransom" letter which seemingly points away from the Ramseys?
Answer: THE RAMSEYS!!

Your post reminds me of Scott Peterson defenders who would focus in on a package of fish lures and fishing license and ask "Why would a man buy lures and get a fishing license if he was going to dump his wife's body??" And then they would blithely conclude he must have been really fishing and really innocent.

Of course, in order to do that, they had to ignore the facts: that Peterson claimed to have decided that very morning to go fishing and yet his license was dated for the day before as well. And the package of lures was unopened. And the quarry, sturgeon, are not legally trawled for and are not lure but live bait fish. In addition he was out on the water such a short time and claimed to have been rained on and yet his jacket was dry.

Those are the FACTS. And they have to be ignored in order to conclude that Scott Peterson is innocent.

This question of yours likewise also completely misses the point.

 

Maybe....

But he lied to LE about climbing in the window after breaking it. I'm not sure why, but I don't believe a man who says he took his suit and pants off to climb in the window...and then put his shoes back on to climb through.

Unless...well, see there, you did make me think of something. Maybe John put his shoes back on because of the glass on the floor. He didn't want to cut his feet.

Well, that's why I can't make up my mind about John and what he knew.

Do I think he could have been in the dark all these years if Patsy did it? People have kept dark secrets for far longer than that.

But maybe he did figure it out. Maybe he didn't want Burke to lose his mom, as well as have her a convicted child killer. Who knows?

What I do know is that the evidence against Patsy is convincing to me.

 

umm hmmm

There are those who believe PR did it all by her lonesome. You will find that even though people on this forum have been accused of all being "Bent on Ramsey Guilt" there are many different ideas on what possibly happened and there are also a few fence-sitters.

I think it possible John didn't know what happened when he woke up but that he began to suspect from the ransom note and behavior of Patsy and during the time he was "missing" that morning went to the basement and found JB's body.
He certainly conveyed the thought that someone close did it when he told detective Arndt that it was an inside job.

 

Oh, I just remembered. Sorry, I'm quite distracted from the many details of this case right now.

I think John lied about climbing in the window for another reason. His description of how he climbed in. He not only sounds like he's trying to figure it out as he tells it, rather than he remembers it, but he described the way he climbed in and it's not possible.

He said he turned and got on his knees in the window and then dropped down. Try it. Not possible with that far of a drop, without putting one foot down, shifting weight to it, etc. He couldn't put his foot down...watch Smit drop down after climbing in and dragging his behind over the sill. Long drop. John is a short man, as well.

 

numbered pages

I too thought from reading the ST book that the pages were simply counted and the pages missing were counted by the small tab of paper left where the page is perforated to be torn from the pad.

 

Oh, yeah, that's true. John did apparently "think" it was an inside job at first. Then he changed his mind for the rest of his life, apparently.

 

That's arrogant of you, Daniel. Like we WEREN'T searching for truth and justice already?!!

The people on this forum have been die-hard case followers for almost 10 years. We have not spent time, money and effort on this case just because we have nothing better to do. How dare you come in here and lecture US about getting "people to thinking in a search for truth and justice." The reason this forum EXISTS is because we want truth and justice for JonBenet.

 

Dear Kold:

First off, thank you for being the apparent voice of reason and civility here! It is appreciated.

The gist of my thinking is this. If, for the sake of argument, my theory is correct, then the perp had much more time to plan and reason every detail out than certainly the Ramseys would have had if one of them killed the girl. Many of you here seem to think that they were too clever by half, thinking "on their feet" with amazing rapidity along the "reverse psychology" lines I mentioned before. "Use the $118,000 so that no one will think we could be that stupid to specify that sum ourselves. "

In regard to how and why they acted as they did, I shall attempt to address that the next day I can post, as it is getting late now. Is "Jams" "JAMESON.?"
Sue Bennett? I've heard of her. Who is "RTS" please? Thank you.

Thank you again for your civility.

 

Well, I have always thought that the ransom note writer went to the middle because she hoped that no one would notice she'd written the note on that pad.

But John handed it right to LE.

Which is another reason that gives me pause about John being involved. Either he figured they'd find it anyway and thought they would look innocent if he gave it up freely...or he didn't know.

Doubt we'll ever know.