Why Ramseys *and* Karr must be innocent

Daniel why do you think John let Patsy call over the Whites, then the Fernies, Father Rol and who else....when the note told John he was being MONITORED by kidnappers who would behead his daughter if he so much as talked to a stray dog?

Give you time to ponder this....or are you afraid you have no answer?????

Koldkase the voice of reason........hahahahahahahaha
Daniel has not experienced the wrath of Koldkase!!!!!!!!

 

Dear Cherokee:

No, I didn't mean that at all, though I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. I simply meant that I thought I had an insight I had not heard previosuly and that might get people--like yourselves--thinking some more, perhaps in different directions. That's all.

Sorry again.

 

I think

I think you may mean RST which is Ramsey spin team. If we seem a little brusque it is because we occasionally get people who deliberately come here to cause trouble rather than truly seek for the truth.

The awesome moderators keep up well with these trouble makers but the forum is a little crazy right now. You will find we are willing to discuss anything but have already discussed all of this for 10 long years so there isn't much you can propose that we haven't already thought about.

 

If the killer had wanted to frame the Ramseys, they'd have done a much better job of planting "evidence." They also wouldn't have had Patsy write the ransom note, and then have Patsy and John refuse to cooperate with LE and lie about what happened that night.

No one had to frame the Ramseys. Their own actions, and words, belied their guilt.

 

No answer....I thought so!

Daniel must agree it doesn't make sense to himself either.

 

Exactly. The pages weren't numbered, but they WERE counted by the perforations left at the top of the pad.

 

RST is short for Ramsey Spin Team. We all like to insult each other as often and quickly as possible.


Well, I just think that a lot of people are joining the forum, and I know there's a lot of interest. I have had a few theories through the years that got me some harsh words. I think we all have changed our theories many times, or adapted them as we've learned. I still have several I can argue, one as well as the other.

I just don't want to see people being too testy when we're all very tired and frustrated right now. It's been a long decade. I don't think it's improved my character, I'm sad to say, just the opposite.

I also know that the Ramseys and Lou Smit are compelling and charismatic. I often think that many of us, if we met in real life and this case wasn't brought up, would like each other well enough.

But try to understand, Daniel, that most of us have been at this a very long time and we didn't come by our knowledge of the case or our theories lightly or easily. There's a lot of hard work on this forum, and if you want to join us in the spirit of searching for the truth and justice for a murdered child, please consider that a fact up front. We have professionals from all walks of life. Nobody here is careless about a child murder.

The difference between this forum and jameson's forum...which we call the swamp, by the way, and there's a very long history behind that, if you don't know...is that we are here for the true victim, JonBenet, while the swamp is all about defending the Ramseys.

I, for one, will state unequivocally that the one thing I know for a fact and from which I will never sway, and which the Ramsey lawyer Lin Wood agrees with as he stated on Larry King that the Ramsey lawyers kept them from being put in prison, but got them convicted in the court of public opinion: the Ramseys failed as parents when they refused to help LE the first day after finding their child's body, hiring lawyers and never going to the Boulder Police Dept. TO THIS DAY to help find the killer of their child, not doing whatever it took to do so. The Ramseys became suspects because they hired defense lawyers who treated them like they are guilty...which ALL defense attorneys do, as that's the best way to protect their clients.

But the Ramseys were JonBenet's parents, not their lawyers. It was up to the Ramseys to listen to legal advice and then choose to help LE in whatever way they could, to speak for JonBenet when she could no longer speak for herself. That they didn't was damning to their image and forever will be. That they make no apologies for it to this day is worse. Whining about how THEY were treated when JonBenet is the one who went through REAL HELL in their home that night...well, it's cowardly and selfish, and making excuses will never change my opinion of this.

Another thing that is also irrefutable: that selfish and adversarial relationship the Ramseys engendered with the Boulder LE immediately has resulted in NO INTRUDER ever being tried in this case.

If this Karr guy is charged now, it's not because of anything the Ramseys did. In fact, since Karr was brought to the attention of Boulder 5 years ago and apparently dismissed by the BPD, I'd say if the Ramseys had worked to clear themselves as the BPD needed back in 1997, Karr might have been more carefully looked at in 2001.

Just my opinion...JMO.

 

Daniel,

I'm not being aggressive here, but for the life of me, I cannot and will never understand the convoluted acrobatics that those who support the Ramseys go through, to convince themselves and others that they are innocent.

I honestly don't get it. Here at FFJ, you have highly educated intelligent posters who have looked at this case for 10 long years. Every single lie of the Ramseys has been documented here, and there are numerous ones. Nobody has made up any of this stuff..it's all been recorded from media appearances, depositions and statements that the Rams have made over the years.

Just explain to me why lying OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again is indicative of an innocent person?

 

I resemble that remark!! :kmg:

 

Okay, thank you for that. It means a lot, and will help calm people down.

Like KK said, we've had some real doozies come in here trying to stir things up. We've seen and heard every theory under the sun, and we've combed the evidence backwards and forwards for 10 years ... so we get a little defensive sometimes when it sounds like our intelligence, case knowledge and deductive reasoning skills are being questioned.

Sometimes, it's difficult to tell a person's tone and intent from just reading the written word. That's why emoticons were invented.

So, if you're here to discuss the case ... that's fine. It might be a good idea to start with ShowMe's question that she's asked you several times now. She's been very patient.

 

Oooooohhh, KK has a groupie!

Are pirates allowed to have groupies? I can't find my Guttah manual. I think you have to take a card, collect $200, and go directly to jail before you get a groupie. Guttah rules.

 

Oh, Daniel...have you met our resident handwriting analyst and graphologist, Cherokee?

She has a couple of ransom note analysis threads at the top of the forum thread page that are illustrative of how much work some of the people here have done on this case through the years. She makes a compelling argument that Patsy wrote the note. Most of us agree, but we have used other sources for this conclusion as well. There are many.

Of course, there is always the opposite opinion, as well as "inconclusive" opinions. So we know that. Just wanted to let you know she's a great example you can check out easily enough to see that the dedication to gathering, researching, and analyzing evidence here is remarkable.

Have you ever seen ACandyRose's website? www.acandyrose.com is a great site where you can find a lot of case information, documents, etc., from all the years of this case. But please feel free to bring info here to support your arguments. That's what we do.

In fact, I used to have very long fingers. They're half an inch now from all the typing through the years.... :imonline:

 

I'm going to bed, I will patiently await Daniels answer to my question.

KK has a groupie?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa..... KK gets all the good stuff.

I'm telling.............

 

Talk to my AGENT ZOTTO!

irate:

 

Don't pay them any attention, Daniel.... They're just jealous.... :winkaway:

 

<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

Daniel: Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Why would Mrs. Ramsey or an intruder writing the note then and there have started in the middle of the tablet? Why (and how) would she had somehow destroyed the initial false start but not the second one which was left at the scene? It doesn't sound likely at all. More likely is what I speculated before. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Very easily, Daniel. I often leave a pad on my kitchen table, to note down things I need at the supermarket. as I'm going through my day, if I am in the kitchen, I could receive phone calls, and with a list of items already on the top sheet, I often open the pad in the middle and start taking notes, or if I want to remember something else, I will also break the pad open anywhere it opens. This way, I am not disturbing the top sheet with my list on it. This, I do a lot, so Patsy Ramsey may well have done exactly what I did, maybe wanting to see if this was a better statement than she had written on the top sheet, and then she made sure she tore it out. Simple! Plus wouldn't you be a bit harrassed if it was you in Patsy Ramsey's situation? I think so! Staging can't be 100% perfect, I'm thinking!

I'm still waiting for my reply. My post was on page two (?). :-( Boo hoo!

 

You went and got a GROUPIE without my express permission AND 118,000 page contract annotation?????? Say it ain't so Ethel...... Well, it's your funeral pet...if you've got the energy then who am I to stand in your way. Sven just had his annual back wax and all.........how on earth am I to explain this to him huh???

Now look Show Me...I know it's a blow, but you'll cope. Groupies aren't all they're cracked up to be. The Diva will tire of hers eventually. Diva's with stumpy fingers are a tad harder to market ya know....

 

Well, some agent you have turned out to be. All it takes is one hairless back, and you walk me down the plank?

Fine. I'll take my groupie and you take Sven. I hear Daniel is a real man, anyhow. As evidenced by his courage to wander into the lion's den...armed only with his keyboard....

But don't be expecting anymore percentages, either, love. Agents who get distracted and leave their divas to their own devices find themselves without even stubby little fingers to market....

:sothere:

 

Well fair dinkum...after all the SACRIFICES I made for you!!! You've conveniently forgotten that I died in two World Wars for you, kept you supplied with lush roo fur coats...not to mention organising the ECT and "rest periods" so you could *cough* regain your strength. Ah me, an Agent's love and care is soon forgotten......

But, no worries, Trishy's been leaving messages...SHE is more than happy to pay a top agent 92% commission......

 

Well, fine then! I need a rest anyhow! Let Tricia deal with an agent who is constantly stealing her rubbing alcohol and crack pipe!

If any of you jealous guttah gossips want me, I'll be in my fridge box under the overpass! Me and my listerine.... :glug: