A Doll Was Placed Next To JonBenet's Body In The Cellar!

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by AMES, Sep 29, 2010.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Honestly, I don't know what it is, just what it could possibly be.

    Remember this is a screen capture--an image created from an image off a TV program. I'm not sure how that works, but it takes some kind of electronic equipment I don't have. ACR has done this for a long time, though. I believe Why Nut also has many times provided us with images acquired from TV programs that way.

    The upside is we have so many images we otherwise would not have access to, since Team Ramsey always has and apparently always will control what we're allowed to see and in what context. (Ha. Nothing blind about their justice system.) The downside is that the images we see are blurred and difficult to make out, as this one is.

    I don't think whatever it is, is lying on "the" blanket in which JB was wrapped, as it was much larger and more lumped up--see the image down the page here posted by Nickii. (Thanks Nickii.)

    It looks like a doll I've seen before, for some reason. Maybe it is a Christmas themed dress, if that's what it is. I wondered if that was a box it was lying in, and maybe the waves of white were tissue paper. Hard to say, really.

    Of course, it could be something else altogether. Maybe a Christmas decoration for the tree--like a topper? Oh, I think that's what it's reminding me of. The colors and if that's a dress, like the angels you see for sale at Christmas in stores.

    But it might not even be a doll of any kind.

    Still, it caught my attention and makes me wonder.
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Well, let's don't get too excited. I wouldn't take this blurred image to the bank as that of a doll of some kind. That'd be too easy, wouldn't it? Team Ramsey is forever teasing us, giving us just enough to confuse us, but never enough to clarify anything in this case. That's what they do and have done for 14 years. Bastids.

    Sad to say the photo in the top right corner is of JonBenet. She was turned and photographed, apparently, by the medical examiner when he finally showed up. This photo has caused a lot of controversy in my mind, because it reveals a few things that make me want to puke.

    One, it shows JonBenet's hands and arms in a position unlike the one we've been led to believe she was found in. If she was already in full rigor by 8 p.m. that night--and according to all reports, including the autopsy done the next morning, she was--her arms are not "over" her head as she lay on her back and "froze." Instead, they're in front of her head, raised. Did the medical examiner "break" the rigor to take this photo? Why would he do that. It's very confusing, but if this is how she was found, then we've been misled for many years and this position makes me consider an entire different scenario--for she looks as if she was left lying on her side instead of on her back. But there may be some other explanation, or maybe I'm just not seeing it in context.

    Two, JonBenet's hands are covered with brown paper bags, as bodies usually have done by LE to preserve any evidence they might hold. This made me realize the "intruder" paper bag stories Lou "Intruder" Smit not only spread in the media, but testified to under oath in the Wolf law suit were completely false. Then I discovered Smit knew it: ACR put up a page where she quoted sections of the LE interviews Smit did with John and Haney did with Patsy; Smit and Haney flat out state the paper bag in which the "rope", found in JAR's room and photographed by LE, was in fact put the "paper bag" by LE--it was an evidence bag.


    Then I reread the autopsy and noticed at the end, the paper bags from the hands and feet were listed. Since Judge Carnes specifically cites those paper bag fibers from the "rope bag" and found in the "body bag" JonBenet was transported in were evidence of an intruder, which Smit himself had entered into the evidence for that case. Under oath Smit included false information about the paper bag fibers; it really tells the tale of how the Ramseys have had so many well placed shills doing their dirty work all along. They subverted the justice system at every turn with lies, disinformation, and obstruction of the investigation--paid for in full.

    Anyhow, the third and worst thing about this photo is that it shows a little girl, only six, in an astonishing death grip. She was the floodgate that opened, pouring the corruption, weakness, and dysfunction that is our justice system into our consciousness.


    Here is another shot taken of the body still lin the home, I believe, similar to the one above, but with a ruler:

  3. Karen

    Karen Member

    Who decides what to redact and what to release? It makes me wonder about some of the other items that were redacted.

    I don't think that is "the" white blanket either.

    I don't see a doll. If that is a doll she is without clothes. Wierd.
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Could be. Certainly seems possible.

    I see that deep red of Christmas decor, too. I see "pink" tinges, but that's from the blurriness in my case. My eyes are not that good anymore, and I have transition lenses in my glasses so colors are a tiny bit more vivid, though.
  5. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    The Boulder Police Department redacted the line before they were forced by a judge to release the evidence list publicly.
  6. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    For Karen and others:

    Some posters are wondering if the item circled below is the doll we now know was with JonBenet's body in the basement.

    Attached Files:

  7. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Oh, I wouldn't go that far. There's sure to be someone who is going to appear and say it's this or that or not this or that, but something else because they know as blahblahblah.

    Hey, I hope someone does know. I sure don't. I was really looking for the photos of Smit crawling in that window. I have some saved on disk, but purged a lot of stuff from my computer files, so thought I could find it quick online. Ha. I always make that mistake. Things are going, going, gone.

    Anyhow, I have no idea why that photo popped out at me. It just did. I guess I have a bad habit of wandering around through stuff I've spent years wandering around through, because I forget stuff after all these years.

    Well, we'll cross our fingers and hope someone knows what it is and speaks up.
  8. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Levi Page has so graciously asked me to be on his show tonight.

    Pat Brown criminal profiler & Dr. Richard Weinblatt former police chief will also be on Levi's show tonight.

    You can be sure I will talk about your discovery KoldKase.

    Did you post this on Websleuths? If not feel free. If you would rather just link to FFJ rather than reposting everything.

    Thank you.

  9. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Wow, BobC. This is interesting.

    Well, if Team Ramsey wants to argue that Patsy's DNA could innocently end up on duct tape she never saw nor owned nor handled, brought in by some intruder, through some kind of tranference, then I guess they don't think it's impossible that the few strands of unsourced DNA found on JB's clothing are from transference, too. But they'll never admit that, I don't think.

    I agree that at some point, coincidences that go on and on and on are just too many to deny add up to no coincidence, but proof that Patsy was in fact handling the child's body, either before or after death, or both.
  10. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Hang on!! It's not a discovery. Not yet, anyhow. It's a blurry photo that we can't figure out. Let's don't go getting ourselves into "misinformation" territory. Let's let Team Ramsey keep that unholy ground all to themselves. :winko:
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Okay, playing with the blurry photo, using "paint," I can better show what I'm looking at that might help us define this:

    Here is an outline of the "doll-looking" part of the photo (BobC can do an artists rendention if he'd like; I can barely get around it with that pointer). Also, here's an outline of the "rectangular" portion which makes it look like something in a box, to me, with fabric hanging over at the bottom.

    Attached Files:

  12. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    I remember seeing a photo of the wine cellar with what was described as a cigar box near some white paint buckets or something. I dimly recall that the box was overturned or something so we were looking at the bottom of it.

    When Patsy was asked in an interview who in the family smoked cigars, she answered that nobody did.

    Don't know anything about the doll except that Patsy, according to DOI, anxiously wanted her sister Pam to retrieve the My Twinn doll she'd given JonBenet for Christmas. It occurs to me that she might have been worried there was evidence on it.
  13. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Someone at topix pointed out that the duct tape isn't listed, so that might be it.

    Another thing I noticed: these numbers are not consecutive. For instance: there's 1KKY, 2 KKY, 4 KKY, 5KKY, 7KKY, 8 KKY, blacked out item, 11 through 14 KKY.

    So where are 3 KKY, 6 KKY, either 9 or 10 KKY?

    Maybe nowhere. Maybe they don't do totally consecutive numbers. But it's something I noticed.

    Also, there are more items listed than we see here, obviously. I haven't gone through them lately, but I remember serveral documents listing items removed from the home.
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    John admitted in his interview with Smit, I think it was, that those were his Cuban cigars someone gave him or something.

    I don't know. The photo could be just a lump of Christmas decorations that look like a doll because I'm looking at it that way. Like clouds in the sky, I'm seeing what I'm imagining? Chrismas decorations were kept in that room, after all.

    Someone knows what that is, though. Someone who has seen these photos up close, compliments of Smit.
  15. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    If you look at the photo copy of the evidence list, you'll see that the numbers aren't always consecutive.

    For the record, this is only ONE page from the evidence list. It does not contain all of the evidence removed from the Ramsey home.

    Attached Files:

  16. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Wealthy people give each other Cuban cigars all the time--mostly because they are, or were, illegal to be brought into this country. It's a sign of status.

    Guys--I am 100% serious here--I think we have the first chance in 15 years to bring someone to justice for this murder. Let's let the police do their jobs
  17. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Maybe the cops were wondering why he kept cigars in the basement when he had a humidor on his desk.

    Patsy also told the cops that John wasn't really a golfer though it was clear from the interviews that John was proud of his game. I take her cigar denialism to be another undermining dig at him.

    I've never seen that photo before. It does look like a blonde-haired doll.
  18. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Here is a more complete listing at ACR's site:

  19. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Is there some way we are preventing that? I'm asking honestly.

    What do you suggest, BobC? I'm listening.
  20. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    It does. But it's so hard to see any definition.
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