Bienkowski, Krebs, mame, et al

Discussion in 'Mystery Woman/Lee Hill/Alex Hunter' started by Watching You, Sep 9, 2003.

  1. AK

    AK Member

    I know, but still...

    Someone reading about this scam for the first time, as I hope many will, may get confused.

    WY, I was driving earlier and thought about your posting of these files. It hit me that your kids must have HATED having guilty secrets from you because you would have busted them every which way and then some. Haha! And now, reading backwards here, I see you opened the thread with that.

    As I recall, mame said FWSr. offered NK $75k and the tabs offered $10k. It appears that's all more slime from the mameslug BS trail!

    If NK was in such dire straits when she sought counsel from MB, why didn't Bienkowski recommend she go to a psychiatrist who might give her medication for her delusions, or at least kick up her treatment a notch? If someone goes to a general practitioner who finds cancerous conditions, an oncologist is recommended. Any therapist should know when it's appropriate to bring in more help, especially if a patient is insured or the state is paying.

    Which brings me to the question: Why didn't Nancy keep her appointment with the psychiatrist the BPD paid to see her? Did Bienkowski offer her files to him? Did she tell him she'd accompany Nancy to the meeting, and if not, why not? Or was she the one who induced Nancy to duck that meeting? If they truly wanted their story to be believed, if they truly thought there was a danger to the niece and themselves, they should have gone to that meeting.

    I would like to know if there were sexual relations between Krebs and Bienkowski because that would be a violation of the most serious degree, particularly with a client who has claimed sexual abuse. I'd hate to think that Bienkowski hangs around rape crisis centers for the purpose of finding dates... but there are priests who counsel sexually abused children and molest them.
  2. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Uhhh the sum I was quoted from the tabloids came to $50K. But you know, close enough.

    Yeah there's been a lot of impersonating going on. A friend of mine a few years back read me an e-mail I "sent," and I had to confess it was my first time seeing it. I used to get all paranoid about that kinda thing but then I realised my friends know who I am. They also know there are pathetic people whose whole lives are these forums and have nothing better to do than to stir up garbage.

    who cares. For me, it's still about rich people getting away with murder and it will always be about that. Phuck the trolls.
  3. Vic

    Vic Active Member


    I've always felt rather :(:(:(:(y about all the crap you have been given.
    You had some fun with the Patster (and how could you not) but always were truthful about what you felt.
    You told what you could, when you could. You took the crap for a long time before you packed it in at JW. It was a sad day for me, I didn't post much but looked forward to your posts... always funny but right on the money.

    Isn't it ironic now that the ones who gave you :(:(:(:( are the ones who now turn out to have personal motives.

    A big :hug:

    And to WY, the same. Same reasons, too.
  4. Pearlsim

    Pearlsim FFJ Senior Member

    my knowlege of therapists, etc...

    My therapist and I do NOT sit around discussing the KrebsScam or any such stuff....not at the rates she charges.

    But, here is what I know about psychologists in California, based on direct information she has told me.

    Oh yea, first off, she's a PHd. Then there's our marriage counselor (recommended by my therapist, to help deal with the issue of how the molestation and finding out about it affects our marriage). She's a LCSW - licensed clinical social worker. I don't know what Mary Bienkowski is. (Well, yes I do know what she is - I just can't print it here.)

    My therapist is obligated, by law, to report me to the police or hospital authorities if I am showing suicidal or homicidal intent. She makes the call on this but if her judgement is that I'm veering in either of those catagories, she can call for the cops or an ambulance, even while I'm sitting in her office. Likewise, if I call her up and sound suicidal or homicidal, she has the authority and obligation to get someone to my house, whether I want that or not.

    If I go in the office and tell her of someone else being hurt in a criminal way......let's say my "perpetrator" is now abusing someone else and I know that for a fact...she has the LEGAL obligation to report that. No judgement calls on her part...she has to report my accusations, even if she can't bodily take herself to find out whether those accusations are true or not.

    EXCEPT, if she's, in her professional judgement, 100 percent certain that I'm lying. But, she must always err on the side of caution in any of these circumstances....hopefully because she cares for me as a patient...and more certainly because her butt is on the line should it become known that I reported things to her that she didn't follow up on, per her codes of behavior as a practicing, licensed therapist.

    California goes to great extremes to protect the privacy of mental patients...but she has flat-out told me that privacy goes out the window for the three specific instances I've outlined - clear homicidal or suicidal intent or the confession of a crime being committed.

    I can't figure Nancy Krebs out for the life of me. I suspect what WY wrote about Mackey Boykin is probably right on. There may have been some "consent" in her teens - but it was still molestation, as defined by the experts because she was so much younger and he was an authority figure in her life. There wasn't an equal balance of power, hence it becomes molestation.

    So, I'm going to give her that. How screwed up she may have been from that experience, I can't say. But, just that one piece of evidence makes me withhold public judgement. Not that I disregard what others have written - it's just that I haven't researched it myself and have never talked to the woman so I don't feel qualified to chime in.

    But Mary Bienkowski is a disgrace. She can't be excused no matter which way you look at the puzzle.

    As has been pointed out, if she believed every word of Nancy Krebs' claims, it was her duty to report the incredibly damning information her patient was giving her. LEGALLY, she had the obligation to do that as a practicing professional.

    If, on the other hand, she saw Krebs as so distorted in her thinking that she couldn't be trusted on any issue, she should never have aided and abetted her in the whole drama of "fleeing" to Boulder and accusing White and Ramsey of having molested her.

    Oh and another thing. It's correct that the therapist cannot dispense drugs - only the psychiatrist can do that. Frankly, I think it's not an effective system because it's the therapist who sees the patient on a more regular basis and is in touch with exactly what's going on in their lives, while the psychiatrist is usually only seen once every month to six weeks. But, my therapist and psychiatrist are in touch with each other and if my therapist thinks the meds aren't working or I'm having some kind of symptom that needs to be addressed by the psychiatrist she gets on the phone right away and/or advises me to move an appointment up so I can be seen by him on a more timely basis.

    Hope this helps show the way things SHOULD be done in therapy. I never thought I'd be in this place, but I'm sure grateful that the doctors I see are consummate professionals and not totally criminal frauds like Mary Bienkowski seems to be.
  5. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    You are very sweet Vic but don't worry about me--I'm tough and can take the heat.

    Did you all ever notice how Stumpy Morgan knew all about Kreb's life before her intrusion into this case? How if someone said Nancy did something or other previously, Morgan would explain the "truth" about it? Now how does Morgan have all this info? Now, I'm not suggesting she knew Krebs before, I'm just saying she seemed to have all the pre-recorded answers for every incident before Krebs arrived at Boulder?

    This is exactly what Jameson does. Jameson "knows" every move the Ramseys ever made before she met them. Now we know Jameson is not all there, but Morgan had/has an agenda.
  6. Vic

    Vic Active Member


    I figured Morgan was just e-mail butt buddies with Mame and others, I never suspected really nefarious goings-on.

    I am so gullible!
  7. zapata

    zapata Senior Member

    CA State Board Of Medical Examiners

    We can go to Yahoo and type in California State Board of Medical Examiners and if Mary Bienkowski has any type of license to practice it will give her credential there. I say we all check her out. If there are any current complaints against her, if she is licensed those should show up too.


    RR, I meant to leave my home email addy for you in the PM you sent me. I will sent it in the next one so you will not have to go to the trouble to send me a PM. Tricia, it is okay to give my home email addy to anyone you trust.
  8. zapata

    zapata Senior Member

    I found this and more at Yahoo

    Messages warn therapist to avoid figure in sex ring

    by B.J. Plasket
    © 2000, Daily Times-Call

    BOULDER — The California therapist who is treating the so-called Mystery Woman in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case has received telephone messages ordering her to stay away from her patient, who has come forward with allegations of lifelong sexual abuse by a ring that includes figures in the Ramsey case.

    The five messages were left at the office of Mary Bienkowski over what is believed to be a six-month period. One of the calls appears to be made by one woman and the other four made by a second woman.

    Who do you believe the two women are? I have my suspicions.

    A reliable source identified the voices as that of two women who are among those accused of victimizing the now-37-year-old Mystery Woman. The woman remains in hiding.

    Transcripts show the two women giving differing stories about Mystery Woman, with one saying she has married and moved away and the other claiming she is on an extended vacation with her family.

    The woman, however, has neither married nor gone on the vacation, the Times-Call has learned.

    The text of the calls follows:

    1. (Caller One) "Hello Mary. This is a very interested party in regards to (Mystery Woman's) welfare. (Her) past and her future are of no, of no concern to you. She made an error in judgement when she came to see you and you have caused her nothing but pain and suffering. Her main concern now is her new husband and her family. She has started a life and is going to be moving as far away from you as possible. She belongs with her family and nobody else. She is off limits to you."

    2. (Caller Two) "Hello. Leave (Mystery Woman) alone. We take care of our own. Everything. And nothing is any of your business."

    3. (Caller Two) "Hello. It's high time that you caught on that (Mystery Woman) doesn't have time for your foolishness. Thank you."

    4. (Caller Two) "(Mystery Woman) is going on an extended vacation with her family and while there will seek medical care for her problems. (Mystery Woman) has forgotten more than you will ever know. So."

    5. (Caller Two) "Hello. Sticks and stones may break our bones, but words will never hurt us. So leave (Mystery Woman) alone. It's against the law to disturb the peace. Don't forget it."

    Bienkowski on Thursday said that when Boulder detectives interviewed her on Wednesday, they questioned "the structure, not the content of her treatment."

    Bienkowski said she felt detectives were "looking for ways to invalidate the statements."

    Boulder detectives Tom Trujillo and Jane Harmer are believed to have been in California this week.

    Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner, speaking through Public Information Officer Jana Petersen, said police "wouldn't go to the expense of traveling to California if we weren't taking it seriously."

    Beckner said the department is also following other leads in the Ramsey case and does not have the "human power" to waste on a fruitless California trip.
  9. zapata

    zapata Senior Member

    And this

    The Daily Camera Ramsey Archive


    Therapist backs sex ring claim

    Bienkowski: Client gave Boulder police names of people who are witnesses in JonBenét's death

    By Christopher Anderson
    Camera Staff Writer

    SAN LUIS OBISPO, Calif. — A private therapist said Friday she stands behind her client who claims to have crucial information that could help investigators in the death of JonBenét Ramsey.

    Mary Bienkowski, a licensed marriage, family and child counselor, said her client gave Boulder police specific names of individuals who are witnesses in the killing of JonBenét as well as ongoing sexual and physical abuse of other children.

    "If they do their job and investigate what needs to be investigated, the rest of the pieces will fall into place, and nobody is going to like what they find out," she said. "This person wouldn't be coming forward and risking everything if it were not because she wanted the abuse to stop and wanted to protect other children."

    Bienkowski said she has treated her client for the past 10 years for trauma endured as a repeated victim of sexual assault. Because her client had information that a widespread sex ring could have been behind the Dec. 26, 1996, strangulation and beating death of 6-year-old JonBenét, she encouraged the woman to take the information to authorities.

    JonBenét was found in the basement of her family's Boulder home. Her parents, John and Patsy, are the focus of a police investigation, although the couple have denied involvement in their daughter's death.

    After 13 months of investigating the case, a Boulder grand jury disbanded in October without charges being filed.

    During an interview Friday with the Daily Camera at a downtown San Luis Obispo coffee shop, Bienkowski blasted the Boulder Police Department for not actively investigating the list of people she said her client believes may have knowledge of who killed JonBenét.

    She would not divulge the names of those thought to be involved, saying that information should first be given to law enforcement officials.

    The woman said she knew the Ramseys through the Fleet White family. She said the godfather to her mother is Fleet White Sr. Fleet White Jr. of Boulder and John Ramsey were close friends until the death of JonBenét. Police cleared Fleet White Jr. as a suspect in April 1997.

    The Whites have not returned phone calls from the Daily Camera. John Ramsey's attorney has declined to comment on the new information.

    Boulder police say talking to the therapist is high on their list and that a detective tried to contact her by telephone. The therapist said one of the reasons she is reluctant to cooperate is because she said the Boulder police broke her trust. When police contacted her Friday, she told them she would not release any information until she had a written release from the client.

    Although police knew her client expressed fear of retaliation, Bienkowski said Boulder police risked her client's safety when officers told local police here about her interview in the Ramsey case after a family member reported her missing.

    "They may have already compromised the evidence by leaking where she was, who she is," Bienkowski said.

    Another reason she gave for not returning phone calls to detectives is that police have already indicated they don't believe her client.

    "Why would I want to turn this information over to people who have said they don't believe it," she said. "That's not an open mind; that's not objective."

    Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner
    said Thursday police investigated the possibility of a pornographic sex ring, but found no evidence to support it.

    "It's a pretty big conspiracy she is talking about, involving a lot of people," he said.

    If the current investigation turns up evidence of a sex ring, Beckner said, "I will be absolutely, totally amazed."

    "It would go against all the evidence that we have, but it doesn't matter," he said. "If this is true, I am interested in it. ... We are treating this as though it's real."

    Bienkowski also criticized police for focusing on the credibility of her client, saying they should spend more time investigating the list of people her client has turned over.

    "I am not on trial here, and neither is she," Bienkowski said. "The issue is the information. ... She doesn't want the attention. Her focus is to stop the abuse."

    Bienkowski has been licensed for eight years. She now runs her own private practice.

    Bienkowski said she does not hypnotize her clients and offer suggestions as is the case in some types of repressed memory therapy.

    "I don't believe in that kind of work," she said. "The work that I do with my clients is basic sound psychotherapy."

    Bienkowski said she never believes everything her clients tell her, but she said she believes a "substantial amount" of what her client says about the Ramsey case and what she knows about other abuse of children.

    She declined to say if her client has been diagnosed with a mental illness. "I don't think I can go there right now," she said.

    She also said she doesn't believe in labels.

    "Putting labels on it to say the person is just this or just that makes no sense," she said.

    She said the focus should be on justice.

    "I don't feel there is truly justice anymore, not for JonBenét and people like her," Bienkowski said.

    February 26, 2000

    Note this article claims that Bienkowski is a licensed Child/Family Councelor. I did not find her licensed in CA. I would feel better if one of you checked since I am unsure I did the search correctly, and this is one thing I do not want to be wrong about. Thanks in advance.

  10. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

  11. AK

    AK Member


    What a peach you are to share your life experience with us and to show that someone with can survive the worst kind of horror and still have the desire to do good for others.
  12. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I wholehearted agree, Fed

    I embrace any true victim of abuse, and I admire Pearlsim very much for her candor.

    It's the imposters I despise.
  13. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Right on Pearlsim. From the get-go, I wanted to know how these "attacks" were going on for thirty years and counting and the "therapist" didn't put the hammer down a decade ago when she got involved. And we won't even go into how it is appropriate to fly to Boulder to confront crimes that occured in CA. It didn't take a brain surgeon to see that this story was bullsmit.

    The standard whine is "the police wouldn't help us"--which is a lie as we have seen. Thousands of dollars were spent and Krebs just disappeared.

    Now Maimed "doesn't have much contact with Nancy"--well gee, what if poor abused Nancy was killed? What if she's beiung tortured in a basement somewhere?

    But these things apparently never crossed the dull mind of Maimed. hence she never believed this crap. How could she and not be concerned about Kreb's lack of contact?

    Maimed saw this as her big story, something that would make a career for her, and her ego grew with it. She really believed she was smarter than the cops, the FBI and everybody else. Stupid people, however, don't know they are stupid.
  14. Ginja

    Ginja Member


    So in 2000, Krebs claimed that Bienkowski had been her therapist for 10 years.

    Anderson's article is dated 2/26/00 and states that Bienkowski's only been licensed for 8 years. So she was licensed in '92?

    So she was treating Krebs since '90, treating her for 2 years without a license?

    Didn't Krebs say that she met Krebs through the rape crisis center?

    Was Bienkowski a student when she worked at the crisis center?

    Boykin's case was in the late 70's - early '80's. Bienkowski couldn't have met Krebs at that time.

    If the two met through the rape crisis center, then it had to have been one of the situations where Krebs tried to bring one of her false rape charges against a man who had a solid alibi.

    That leads me to believe that Bienkowski knew at the beginning of her relationship with Krebs that Krebs falsely accused men of raping her.

    Further, the Boykin matter being resolved, Bienkowski also would have known (or should have) the circumstances of that case -- that again, charges were dropped because the alleged perp had solid alibis, and that Boykin pled nolo contendere to statutory rape -- that is, sex with a minor. If Boykin had actually raped her, he'd have been charged with rape.

    So again, Bienkowski should have been fully aware of her patient's 'history'.

    Wouldn't a professional seriously consider the patient's history as she sat in sessions with Krebs and taking notes of her alleged victimization in a sex ring that started since the age of 3?

    I mean, to me, this all adds up to fraud from the word get-go!
  15. LurkerXIV

    LurkerXIV Moderator


    I'm glad to see you back posting again. You have a great deal of knowledge about the JonBenet Murder Case, and have been here from the beginning. You are such a valuable resource.

    I have never forgotten the evil things the Queens...esp. Denver/Digerati...did to you, and the cruel and vindictive threads they created about you on Delphi. That was when they showed their true colors. All because you refused to join their coven.

    I am really happy to see the air being cleared about that vicious band of women...Morgan, Holly, Darby, Mary 99, Chris Wheeler, etc.--and ONE MAN...Geno/Gom Jabbar...their computer expert.
    I suspect he was the one who took down your 'puter so many times...and those of others who opposed the coven.

    Well, the truth is out now. I hope all those evil ones crawl into a hole and never emerge again.
  16. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    From Singular

    Q: In February this year, a Californian woman came forward and, through her counselor, advised the Boulder police that she had previously been molested at the hands of a pedophile ring that she thought was also responsible for the murder of JonBenet Ramsey. How significant was her evidence and do you think Alex Hunter and the BPD treated it seriously?

    I think much of what she said -- and I was present during several of her interviews -- is very significant. The Ramseys have gone on TV and begged the public for information about this murder. They have presented a profile of their daughter's killer: a pedophile in Boulder who knew their family. This woman came forward and talked about a pedophilic group in Boulder with connections to their family, and she suggested that this group might have played a role in their daughter's death. The Ramseys wanted absolutely nothing to do with her -- even though she was talking about things that appeared to exonerate them in the murder of their child. What does this tell you? They don't want this pedophile door opened even one crack. The
    secrets of the case, I believe, lie in there and they (or at least one of the parents) don't want anyone to explore this realm of child exploitation, abuse, and pornography. It is better to be accused of being a murderer than to have other things come out. Hunter took her seriously, but the BPD, which interviewed her and was the agency that should have investigated her claims, dismissed her the same way they've dismissed everyone and everything that haven't fit their scenario. For the Ramseys, or one Ramsey, there appeared to be a worse scenario than having both Patsy and their young son Burke being publicly accused, for the past three years, of killing JonBenet. That scenario had to do with making their daughter the victim of a child sex ring in Boulder. Why was this more threatening than having your family members accused of the most terrible thing a person can do?
  17. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Oh for Christ's sake. What an :(:(:(.
  18. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    That's the

    understatement of the year Bob.

    Actually, it should be, what a #&*%(@^$ :(:(:(:(ing &*($^#&^% :(:(:( hole.
  19. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef


    "The Ramseys wanted absolutely nothing to do with her -- even though she was talking about things that appeared to exonerate them in the murder of their child. What does this tell you? They don't want this pedophile door opened even one crack."

    Singular Admits that he was present during Nancy's interviews. The very ones where Nancy accused John Ramsey of committing very felonious acts upon her.

    Here is another Key Player in this scam that gives Uncle Johnny a pass. And that Benefits Who????????

  20. Spade

    Spade Member


    you RR for reminding me of this over the top interview.

    Stephen Singular has a curious connection to the Ramsey case. SS wrote Talked to Death a book that was made into the movie: Talk Radio. One of the legal prerequsites of making a movie from a book based on a true story is to obtain the life story rights of the main charactors. The defendants were a group of white supremists defended by: PAT FURMAN AND PATRICK BURKE. Consequently, it is logical to assume that Stephen Singular and Patsy Ramsey's defense attorneys(Furman and Burke) had a prior business relationship. What this means in the big picture, I don't have a clue. Boulder is a small town.

    FYI: Furman is a close personal friend of Roxanne Balin's husband and in 1997 co-authored a legal textbook with Roxy and her hubby.
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