Heads Up! Burke interviewed by Police!

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by BobC, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    I think every BPD detective, who worked this case, wants to know exactly what happened that night. I think they'd give their right arm to clear it up. Charges or no, they want the truth to come out. Maybe the whole thing was the result of an embarassing accident that the parents tried to cover up. Maybe it was a sibling attack, a situation that could not result in charges being filed, but, I believe the BPD would like to close the book on this thing.
    And, who knows, maybe Burke would like the same. I mean, if you think about it. You're a college graduate, you're young with your whole life ahead of you. But every where you go, people are going to be whispering behind your back, wondering.....As long as none of my living relatives could get charged, I think I'd want to get the thing resolved.
  2. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    When Burke stated that JonBenet had been awake when the family arrived home and walked up the stairs, this was a bombshell, since it completely contradicted his parents' version about her being fast asleep and carried upstairs.
    If memory serves, neither John nor Patsy were ever confronted, in the police interviews, with Burke's version, and LE missed yet another opportunity to get them in a corner.

    As for this having been a possible sibling attack, it would explain Patsy and John covering up for Burke. That it would have to take 'tremendous physical force' to strike the headblow (and therefore rule out a nine year-old) is another Team Ramsey myth (just like the garrote being a "complicated" device).
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2010
  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Interesting ideas, all.

    I also wonder if Burke is asking the BDA to clear him again to sue people. Maybe he's running out of money. Or just on another Wood-hunt to shut up speculation so he can escape the suspicions, at least on the surface.

    Is this independent of the crazy girlfriend's latest public attempt to smear Chris Wolf with suspicion of child killer--again? I still can't believe that the Daily Camera sold her that ad and published it. Makes me very suspicious, because the DC has long been Team Ramsey and willing to publish anything extremely damaging to anyone to help the Ramseys, to hell with journalism standards. (Remember the DC's sleezy, tabloid campaign to ruin the Whites? The DC "innocent Ramseys" position has been carried on by the current generation, as well.)

    So we have that, then this "inteview of Burke" story leaked.

    I know I'm way too jaded at this point, but we've seen the RST do so many low, underhanded, just plain evil things to so many people, as if everyone deserves all this BUT the killer--who should be the one the Ramseys aim their big guns at...only that never happens, does it?

    Yeah, I'm having a pavlovian response from the last 14 years of "developments" in this case: it only gets worse, never closer to the truth. I've seen people I had such respect for long ago lie, deceive, and/or spin the facts of evidence in this case without batting an eye. The truth is run over every time, along with more bus victims, always to protect the Ramseys and the killer. At least, that how I see it.

    But oh, how I long to be wrong.
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Okay, here's a KEY question for me: WHO leaked this info to the media?

    Think about it. The fact that it got leaked means someone has an agenda. Someone who knew about the interview.

    So who knew about it? Obviously, members of the BPD. Obviously, members of the Ramsey family--at least John. Obviously, some law firm hired by Burke to be there--guessing on this one, but looking at history, I'd be shocked if Burke didn't have a lawyer with him.

    So who leaked this? Was it intentionally placed by one of the above, for an agenda soon to be revealed? Just placed for spite, pressure on one of the parties involved, or just because someone could?

    Who would have something to gain by leaking it? If nothing comes out of it, we don't hear another word, then I doubt it was Team Ramsey, because it raises questions and throws it all back into speculation about none other than the Ramseys. What would Burke know about an intruder? So why would Team Ramsey do that?

    If it were Team Ramsey, then something else is coming. So we'll know when we see it. And IMO, it won't lead to any intruder. Just another victim.

    If it were a deliberate leak from the BPD, then it could have been just a subtle plant to save face on "continuing" the investigation, indicating that the umbrella was still over the Ramseys and the BPD isn't drinking the Kool-Aid. It could have been prompted by the recent CBI "revisiting cold cases" article which first excluded the Ramsey case entirely. Maybe the CBI, when called on it, went back into the evidence and actually did develop some new evidence through new forensic techniques, etc. So as some of you brought up, maybe that's what prompted the BPD to question Burke. And maybe it's the old score to settle that led to the leak, though it probably will never lead to an arrest.

    Or maybe it's another example of someone who just likes to be the "anonymous source"; someone who got a call from an insider and who likes to be "in the know," loves the attention. We've seen a plethora of those through the years. We know who they tend to be, as well. If that's the case, again, we probably won't see anything more about this, unless the "source" has access to more transcripts to sell or something...he he.

    I'm sure y'all have some great ideas on this. Who benefits by leaking this? That tells us a lot.
  5. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    I agree, an almost 10 year old boy could deliver the blow that was necessary.
    Does anyone know if Burke and JonBenet were left in the car alone when the Ramseys were dropping off the christmas presents on the way home?
  6. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Good question, kk. A poster, either here or on another forum, suggested it might be a friend of Burke that leaked news of the interview. I tend to think this might be the most likely source. If this is the case, I don't know what Burke's friend would gain from doing so other than getting a moment of importance in telling something of interest to a media outlet. Maybe it was a friend of a friend of Burke. I could see Burke telling a close friend: "The police are asking questions again." I could see this close friend telling another friend and that friend spilling to the media.

    I really don't think the BPD would leak unless someone in the department, a leftover from the early investigation, might want the public to know the Ramseys are still under some suspicion. Officially, I think the last thing BPD would want is another barrage of microphones being shoved in their face.

    I really don't think John would want any more attention, either. Wasn't he recently hired as an expert consultant or something by some big company? Seems to me, this would be the last thing he would want at this time.

    National media hasn't mentioned this new interview, have they? If they haven't, I guess this is a little intriguing to me.

    Lastly, no one reported as to what the BPD wanted to ask Burkie. Is this noteworthy? It seems that Burke and the BPD are not telling. If it was simply a touch base kind of thing to see if Burke remembered anyting, well, one would think both parties might want to report this in order to head off any media storm, etc.
  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    Are you assuming Burke may have hit JonBenét over the head in the car with a heavy toy he may have had in his hand, Learnin?
  8. Driver

    Driver FFJ Senior Member

    The thing I find most curious is that Candy didn't post about it 18 minutes sooner.
  9. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    I don't think anything will happen since the killer is dead IMO.

    We can hope, but I'm not holding my breathe. The Ramseys have been given special treatment and will continue to get special treatment.

    The Whites were never given special treatment and volunteered info...which makes me think JR is still politically connected.

    Each time this case has reappeared in the media, the Ramseys made money on the talk show-athon.

    Burke is 23ish? Which is 17 years until he is forty.
  10. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    I don't think a skull split nearly in half could have been done by BR in the car with a toy. For one, he was a small kid for his age, scrawny. A blow like that, just from a physics perspective, takes force. That force has to be in the form of either speed, weight or both. Weight of the bludgeon as well as the person wielding it. No way it happened in a car with BR. Hitting her with a toy would split the SKIN, not the skull, though a heavy toy could cause a hairline fracture (not a fracture like she had).
    My nephew went down a full flight of basement stairs at 7 months old and only had a hairline skull fracture.
    Take another look at JB's skull. Something HEAVY and blunt (because the skin wasn't torn) wielded by someone much larger than her caused that fracture.
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Maybe she tried, but BobC is cheeky enough to have a life and set her back.

    I can't escape the idea that Lockheed Martin was the heavy hitter which went to bat for the Ramseys. You don't get any more influential than a major, international defense contractor.

    As for Burke, he's still not worried about any intruder. I don't know what the Ramseys expect to happen when he's forty. Should we see him become a public figure by doing the talk show circuits with his dad, I'd be very surprised. What could they possibly be selling now? People don't care about the same old same old with this case, and it has been 14 years. Unless they're going to bring out some more faux intruder "evidence" they think is going to lead to another media whore PERV like Karr...what have they got left? We've seen that dog and pony show, after all, many times.:rst:

    Hm. Maybe they're going to confess for PATSY! Okay, then! THAT I'd watch! :pray:
  12. Elle

    Elle Member

    I wondered about this DeeDee(?). That was quite a head injury JonBenét had. My thoughts when first posting on this case way back was Patsy in a rage throwing JonBenét against the wall or sink in the bathroom which is high enough for JonBenét's head to have struck.
  13. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    And without someone expert-like testifying, or at least arguing in person on TV or some such, that there was plenty of time between the head blow and the strangulation, I'm on the fence about "intentional" vs "accidental." It could have happened either way, as far as the evidence and arguments I've seen on which came first and how much time transpired between them.

    But the difference between how those two elements of attack occurred, in regards to timing, is the story in full.
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Hey, Elle. How are you and your family doing?

    Thomas put forth that idea, as well. I still struggle with it because I can't see how she wouldn't have had many obvious accompanying injuries with such a powerful, forcefull fall, like a broken neck or heavy bruising elsewhere. The displaced skull is one thing, but the crack which nearly separates it in half had to have tremendous force to cause that, IMO, as DeeDee says.

    Of course, I've wondered if JonBenet had more bruising the med. ex. never saw because HE DIDN'T KEEP THE BODY FOR LATER EXAMINATION, which might have shown more bruising in time. (What a colossal screw up at every turn....)
  15. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    It just occurred to me yesterday. It would be a long shot as it would be hard, I think, for a 10 year old to get enough leverage, in the close proximity of a car, to wield that kind of damage. Just wondering. But, on the other hand, she couldn't have eaten the pineapple if she had sustained the head blow in the car. So, I think this can be thrown out.
  16. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Yea, I think you're probably right about a child not being able to get enough leverage in a car. I, also, forgot about the pineapple. She couldn't have eaten that if hit in the head while being in the car.

    But, I don't think it would take someone much larger than JonBenet to depress a skull. A 10 year old could do it with a baseball bat, golf club, etc.

    I've always wracked my brain about some kind of gift that could have been received, that Christmas, which could have been used to inflict this injury but haven't been able to think of anything.
  17. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    One of the things which sets me thinking is: How does one knock out a piece of skull without cutting the scalp? The crack really doesn't concern me at all in this head wound. If you hit a skull hard enough to knock out a piece, it's a wonder there aren't several cracks emanating away from the depression.

    I realize it had to be a blunt object. Yet, that much force, with the skull being depressed in, without at least a small cut......hmmm...

    To me, this indicates a quick snapping action rather than just slamming something against the skull. I think of velocity rather than shear force much like a martial arts expert striking a stack of concrete blocks.

    Because of this, I've thought and thought about some kind of spring loaded device....some dangerous Christmas gift that children shouldn't have had without adult supervision, etc. Thought maybe this is why it was covered up.....but I haven't come up with anything. Probably just what it looks like...a flashlight or a golf club although I think it's very possible it could have come from a fall.
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    Doing fine with the family, KK. thank you!

    Yes, I agreed with Steve Thomas' when he thought JonBenét had been thrown around in a rage. I can see this scene taking shape with an exhausted mother like she had to be that night. I also see what you mean about accompanying bruises, but what if the top of her head just came in collision with the edge of the bathroom counter(?). Would this not be able to crack a small skull, without bruises being shown anywhere else on her body?
  19. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Learning, my hubby had a comminuted fracture of the skull when he was a young teen. He got it playing backyard football. Another kid's knee came into contact with hubby's head during the game, rear right, behind the ear. He had temporary amnesia. At the hospital they took x-rays and then let him go. He went out of town with family and couldn't remember anyone. His mother got a call the next day saying bring him back! They did surgery and he has hearing problems to this day from that injury. It was somewhat like an eggshell compressed inward at a point, but not displaced. And there was no laceration of the scalp, no external bleeding. A kneecap has no sharp edges, but it does have protruding angles of bone, which is what got hubby, who had no helmet on--no kneepads or suits of any kind, either, as it was just backyard sport among friends in the old days.

    I'm certainly no medical expert, but we have had this discussion for many years, with some professionals in the medical field weighing in from time to time. What bothers me is that huge crack in the skull. Yes, it took a lot of force to displace the somewhat rectangular section of skull, but to cause that long crack seems to me to require something else. That's why I wonder if the weapon was something with a long portion attached, like a golf club or bat, etc.

    So I keep trying to imagine what has a long shape with that rectagular section jutting out for some function, as if she were hit from the front and the long portion actually contacted the skull as well, causing the crack from front to back, instead of our usual idea that the blow came from behind and to the right?

    I don't know, probably a dumb idea. It's just hard for me, in my lay person's attempt at logic in something that can be very much physics beyond my experience, to visualize the weapon, action, velocity, and force that caused such a devastating injury to a skull, as we can see it did.

    Elle, I can't say anything isn't possible in this. My argument about a "fall" or "throw" so violent it would cause such damage is that the neck of a six year old has very small and fragile bones; her body would not have been disconnected from her head in that fall, but connected by the small neck and bones. So it appears to me such velocity and force required to break the skull in half would include her body following her head, with the small neck bones crushed between them when the head hit the surface and stopped, but the body continued for a second or two, traveling in the same direction until it was stopped as it impacted whatever surface after the head.

    That's the best I can explain it. As we know, the autopsy stated no injuries to the neck bones. That has always been an issue with the strangulation, as well, because the cord did so little damage to the tissue and inner bones and vessels of the neck.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2010
  20. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Something I think is worth bringing up again is the fact that Patsy was asked about blood found on JonBenet's pillowcase in the BDA/Haney '98 interview.

    Haney asked Patsy if JonBenet had nosebleeds, so it's pretty clear the blood was identified as JonBenet's by lab testing.

    Why would JonBenet be bleeding on her pillowcase? And which one was it: the one at the bottom of the bed in the crime scene photos?

    This gives rise to two questions for me:

    1. Was it drainage from the headblow, as we know she had bloody mucous from her nose and/or mouth on her face and upper sleeve of her top? Would this indicate she was struck while in bed or laid on the bed pillow after being struck?

    2. Was it drainage from being molested, as we know she bled from that into the Bloomies found on her and also had blood on her thigh when processed at autopsy. Does this indicate she was molested in her bed or laid on the pillow at some point during or after that?

    I can't believe that blood on the pillowcase is yet another "coincidence" anyone would reasonably try to dismiss considering she was molested and murdered that night, like they try to dismiss the chronic vaginal inflammation as not related.

    Again, I have to say, how many coincidences can one case withstand before it becomes clear these are not coincidences, but evidence of the crimes committed against this child?

    I think think it's very important evidence.
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