Heads Up! Burke interviewed by Police!

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by BobC, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. AMES

    AMES Member

    I have always thought it was number 1. I posted a huge article about this awhile back, with a severe head blow..a person bleeds from their nose, mouth, and/or ears...one or all of the above. I believe that Patsy flew into a rage, threw JB against something in the bathroom, maybe the sink or tub....(I have also posted articles that state that a child's skull is thinner than an adults, and that a child can crack their skull from just falling off of a bicycle.) Patsy screamed (the scream that the neighbor heard), John came running....they picked JB up and placed her on her bed....where she bled from ....most likely her nose....after the blow. And they tried to revive her there. Rope fibers were found in her bed...(I have read)....so, when they realized that she could not be revived....that is when...IMO...the staging probably began. IMO...they thought, because of her faint heartbeat...that she was ALREADY dead...when if fact she wasn't...when the garotte was twisted around her neck. (Right before my mom died...her heartbeat was so faint that even a nurse could not detect it....BUT....my mom was awake and talking...so of course she had a heartbeat at that time...just undetectable). Patsy and John were not doctors....so, if it is possible for a nurse to not be able to detect a faint heartbeat with a stethoscope....imagine how hard it would have been for the Ramsey's...to detect JB's....without one.
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Hey, Ames, good to see you here.

    I've wondered about this myself. I think it was in the Ramsey paperback edition of DOI that we "learned" of the alleged garrote fibers found in the bed. It was added as an update from the original copy in the hardback. What's odd is that in later editions of the paperback, this "info" is missing. (Another strange occurrence in the Ramsey case where info appears and disappears mysteriously, like the broadcast of the 911 enhanced tape.)

    I think Judge Carnes alluded to those fibers, as well, in her "opinion." But the problem with this is that it came from Smit, along with the "brown paper bag fibers" Carnes (and Smit) attributed to the intruder bringing in the rope. Too bad for them it was only Smit's loose memory guiding them, because in the BDA interviews with Patsy and John, Smit himself states the paper bag in which the rope was photographed WAS THE BPD'S EVIDENCE BAG.

    Also, Smit convinced Carnes that the same "brown paper bag fibers" were found in JB's bed and body bag, left by the same ol' intruder. Oops: JB's hands and feets were BAGGED IN BROWN PAPER BAGS by LE before she was moved from the home IN THE BODY BAG, as per common protocol to preserve evidence. All one has to do is read the autopsy to find that out, which apparently Smit forgot, if he ever knew that was LE crime scene protocol, or he didn't bother to read the autopsy. Well, he had something much better to lead him to his SUPER DETECTIVE conclusion the Ramseys were innocent: his gut. :rolleyes:

    So whether there were actually fibers in the bed, I don't know. But I will say that the condition of the laundry area, with the diaper bag hanging out of the cabinet, and the drawers left open in JB's and JAR's bathrooms nearby lead me to consider that something frantic was going on there that night. I've often wondered if someone was looking for scissors in the drawers carelessly left open, to cut the cord. The kitchen knife found on the washing machine? Burke's Swiss knife was found downstairs in the basement, on a counter near where JB finally expired, if there was a urine stain near the paint tray that came from her (jams was the source I remember for the "urine" in the basement; can't remember if there was another, maybe someone else does). That Swiss knife was said by the maid, Linda HP, to have been hidden from Burke by her in the cabinet where the diapers were hanging out, because Burke wouldn't quit leaving whittling shavings around.

    I wonder if Burke was asked by LE if he knew where that knife was hidden? Did he take it out and relocate it back downstairs? I've read that this knife had evidence from the duct tape on it, glue from the sticky side--was this in Dr. Wecht's book? Sorry, long time, can't remember.

    Anyhow, I've been reading the transcripts again, which we have added to our collection in the case library here, if anyone needs to access them. I just can't believe the lies the Ramseys told in this case. Every time the Ramseys say "I can't remember" I want to scream, yeah, THAT'S convenient! How disingenuous to claim you DID cooperate with LE, when you waited so long for heavily restricted interviews, until evidence had been processed and you got to SEE IT, thanks to none other than Alex Hunter, all while whining you couldn't remember critical info because "it was so long ago"?! ARRRRGH!

    Last edited: Sep 26, 2010
  3. AMES

    AMES Member

    I agree with you...and about those drawers being opened, I had never even thought about somebody looking through them to find something to cut the cord with. I did wonder if maybe, if gloves were worn at all.....if they came from that drawer in JAR'S bathroom. Good question about the sissors though...and yes, they look as if someone in a total panic had gone through them and left them open. Why would you leave bathroom drawers open anyway...unless you are in a HUGE hurry, or have other more important things on your mind, like staging a crime scene.
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Speaking of the transcripts we're still adding to the case library, here is the part about the pillow case on JB's bed having blood on it:


    One has to wonder if that was the marker or one of a set including the marker used on the palm of JB's hand.

    And this following excerpt is part of the most shocking questions and answers in this interview, IMO. Patsy's response simply doesn't ring true. She says she's shocked, but from the first question, she acts anything but shocked, to me: she's very composed, doesn't hesitate, and I don't believe for one minute that she's not heard this before, as we all know she called into talk shows, watched others, and saw the tabs at the supermarket. It's also preposterous to imagine her own investigators wouldn't have asked about this, since she'd be the primary source for info on the record made at autopsy that the child indeed had chronic vaginal inflammation and a largely missing hymen with indications it had been worn away; which any responsible investigator in the molestation and murder of a six year old would logically conclude meant she had been sexually assaulted before that night.

    So what's Patsy's first concern? She wants to see the report. The child is murdered and inarguably molested on that night--and she wants to see the report of previous sexual violation. No trying to process this info on any emotional level. No natural thoughts leading to who could have done that, and how might it have led to the murder? Just show me the evidence, so I'll know if one of us is about to be arrested.

    I'm sorry, but no one is ever going to convince me that Patsy Ramsey didn't know about this before Haney brought it up. Not only that, no one is going to convince me that Patsy Ramsey didn't know everything there was to know about JonBenet being molested before that night, as she clearly would have had vaginal bleeding from it that would have showed up. Patsy even stated in this interview she noticed JonBenet having "irritation" in that area during baths and applied something topically for it a couple of times a month. Are you kidding me, she didn't know about it? BS!

    This is a long passage including questions about whether Patsy or her sisters were ever molested, if you want to read it and haven't, but I'm only putting in a small, crucial part of it:

    Okay, enough of my rant. It just galls me that there was so much evidence leading straight to the killer/accident/deliberate attack/sexual abuser--one or more--of this child, and Boulder LE and her own family and friends did whatever it took to obstruct the investigation, in my opinion.
  5. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Patsy was a very sloppy person, when it came to household issues.
  6. AMES

    AMES Member

    25 TOM HANEY: Okay. Ms. Ramsey, are
    1 you aware that there had been prior vaginal
    2 intrusion on JonBenet?
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I am not.
    4 Prior to the night she was killed?
    5 TOM HANEY: Correct.
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I am not.
    7 TOM HANEY: Didn't know that?
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I didn't.
    9 TOM HANEY: Does that surprise you?
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Extremely.
    11 TOM HANEY: Does that shock you?
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: It shocks me.
    13 TOM HANEY: Does it bother you?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, it does.

  7. AMES

    AMES Member

    Yes, that she was!
  8. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Yeah Patsy "never heard of it" (prior molestation)--I mean the entire national media was discussing that very real possibility for months.

    I don't think for one minute that this interview occurred as any means to "wrap up loose ends." No way in hell. A cold case can sit there until hell freezes over if investigators just want it to go away. happens all the time! And the fact of the matter is that most of the public has moved on from this case--so it's not like there's been some huge public outcry lighting a fire under the BPDs' behinds.

    Nope--something has to have happened to prompt this new development. I happen to think that this has sent a message to both Burke and JR that they are not in the clear. Jerks.
  9. Elle

    Elle Member

    You could be right here, Bob! Let's hope you are!
  10. AMES

    AMES Member

    I agree...and it's about d*mn time!!!
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    As a matter of fact, that's exactly what I was thinking. I even started to write the very same thing, but stopped myself--yeah, unbelievable as it is, I do try to edit myself here and there.

    I was going to write that I'd be in the floor, screaming, having a real Southern-woman-hissy fit. I wouldn't be asking to see the evidence, I'd be asking where I could buy a gun, today, because somebody was going to die and real soon, and lots of bullets, too, thank you.

    I think I'd be so blind with grief and anger, I'd not much care if I shot two or three people extra, just to make sure I got the right one. Oh my god, no way would I calmly sit there like they'd just told me my cable had been canceled due to non-payment for services. G#*dammit, makes me mad just to think about it!
  12. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Aw, you aren't just trying to cheer us up, are you? From your keyboard to god's ear.
  13. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I guess I can just put this here, as we're not rolling the threads by too fast for it to matter much.

    Here's yet another Ramsey who wants to keep a secret even now regarding evidence in this murder. I found this post at the swamp in a discussion about JAR's "children's book" by Dr. Seuss, located by LE in the suitcase with the duvet in the basement. It was among posts on threads from the swamp which I've been organizing in FFJ's case library in the transcripts section. claimed by jams to be excerpts from Lou Smit's Wolf lawsuit deposition (allegedly).

    Trying to make it easier to read and focused on just the deposition, I was cruising through the members' discussion and voila--a little jewel emerges. Truth or fiction? I have no idea, but jams hasn't said this before, so...decide for yourself:


    Off topic from the deposition, but too good to scratch: this is the first time I've seen jams explain why no one will tell the name of that children's book by Dr. Seuss found on the suitcase in the basement. She says JAR doesn't want anyone to know the name or that it was a gift from someone whom he also doesn't want named. Interesting.

    Just makes it look more suspicious, doesn't it? Oh, The Places You'll Go In Your Mind when you read something like this.
  14. Karen

    Karen Member

    Well this woman reporter, Kathy Jenkins?, obviously has a source inside the BPD. I'm sure she calls her source on some kind of regular basis to get some kind of tidbit or info on anything, not specifically Ramsey case related, but anything she can report as new news. That is her job. When she called her source this time they apparently told her about the Burke interview that had happened in the last few weeks. (Notice she does not even have the info on when it happened just that it had happened in the last few weeks sometime.) We all know there is a cold case unit looking at the Ramsey case and Beckner said they were going to start over with fresh eyes and cover all the evidence again. (Albiet if Burke said anything different in this latest interview it would actually be new evidence, whether or not it was helpful. It would be his first real interview as an adult so the rules and questions and the way they are asked would be different I would assume.) Anyway I myself consider this information to be merely some of that which Beckner already said was going to be done. I highly doubt there will be anything to come of it. I think they are just being methodical. As a matter of fact I would fully expect the Whites, Fernies, Dr. Beuf, the medical examiner, all of them to be re-interviewed again in due course if they haven't already been. Information of this sort ( from most of these people)would not necessarily make the papers. But Burke being who he is, is newsworthy and this reporter is merely doing her job reporting it. If and when the Whites are interviewed I'm sure we'll hear about that because of Fleet White's publicly posted letters and his huge and well known involvement in the case, not to mention he's only only person to spend jail time involving this case, poor guy. I think that those of us that have followed this case for so long are starved for some action and new information and we tend to want to make a huge thing out of something as routine as an interview. As far as who benefits from leaking this, (good question IMO,)I don't think anybody leaked it. I think Kathy Jenkins benefits because she has a source and she was the first with the story. You know anything Jonbenet or Ramsey is news. Of course everybody is free to make of this what they want but in my opinion this is just par for the course when a cold case is being looked in to. That's just MO.
  15. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Tricia posted, something like a year ago, that the authorities around Boulder were taking a renewed interest in the case, and obviously her information was accurate. Spending the money to fly out and interview Burke, at this late juncture, can only be seen as extraordinarily interesting AND encouraging to those of us who have been hoping for justice for years.

    Something prompted this.
  16. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member


    You put it very well..."those of us who have followed this case are starved for some action and information..."

    Ames, I too, am struck by the short and curt answers when all those questions about sexual abuse on JB were asked of Patsy. I would have screamed to the high heavens if my little girl was possibly the subject of sexual abuse. I think her short answers were self protection so that she wouldn't let on how much she really knew. But we will never know now.

    N.B. I am loving this thread and hope we will be hearing more from LE in the near future.
  17. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    IMO, this is a very viable theory. I agree with you about the difficulty of determining whether or not a person is still alive. Did anyone catch the story about that twin birth where doctors pronounced one of the twins dead? The dead twin was given to the mother to hold for a while. She held the twin on her chest for several hours without detecting life and then, suddenly, baby gasps and then begins to move, etc.

    I really believe, whoever staged the crime, thought JBR was dead.
  18. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Karen: buzz kill! We want justice!! Patience no longer available! :rage:

    BobC: Why don't y'all dust off those rolodexes and make some calls, see if you can't get the leaks flowing....

    Who is "N.B."?
  19. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    I once asked a doctor about this and she replied that since children have softer skulls than adults, a skull fracture can show no scalp laceration if the contact was with a blunt object.
    I also recall reading about a case where an enraged stepfather had thrown his young child against a wall and the impact by the head dislodged a piece of skull bone. In JonBenet's skulll, a rectangular piece of skull bone was dislodged as well.
    If JonBenet's body was slammed against a hard, blunt surface and the impact was so heavy to cause this horrific skull fracture, imo it was more likely an adult (who would have had the necessary force). Whereas if she was hit with an object, imo a child of Burke's age could have delivered the blow as well.

    Could the baseball bat found outside the house have caused that kind of skull fracture? This baseball bat contained fibers from the basement carpet, and if I recall correctly, Patsy was very evasive when asked whether the bat was Burke's. And didn't it turn out during the grand jury investigation that the bat indeed belonged to Burke?
  20. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    I agree. Some significant information came to light or someone came up with something that was missed, etc.

    On another forum, some posters have reasoned that Smit's death might have led to this new development. Did BPD get back the files that Smit had? Did Smit report something before passing? It just seems wierd that this interview came up shortly after Smit passed.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice