I think she was wearing the pink nightgown when she died

If you had to back track through my posts fb you will find I have done exacty that many times, copied pages as images. I had no problems with this method, and will use it again. However, I cannot edit the image in the same way as the text.

I have also posted many pages with the help of a good FFJ friend - "Little" who shared some of her work with me. She saved me a lot of scanning.

 

Something else is confusing me........



PATSY RAMSEY: I think she would

5 have told because we had talked about all the

6 areas covered by your swim suit belong to

7 JonBenet. Not to anybody else. Mom can touch

8 those areas because, you know, and different

9 things, and Dr. Buff with mommy in the room,

10 those were the ground rules. Not daddy, not

11 Burke, not grampa, not anybody else but

12 JonBenet's, you know.
13 TRIP DeMUTH: Did she have any

14 difficulty approaching you and talking to you

15 about maybe other children at school she was

16 having difficulty with, would she share those

17 kind of points?

18 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

19 TRIP DeMUTH: Which one is it, she

20 would share?

21 PATSY RAMSEY: She did not have

22 difficulty. She will tell me everything.

23 TOM HANEY: While we are on the

24 subject, tell us a little bit about what you

25 did, not little, tell us what you told JonBenet

0096

1 and when and how did this start, about what

2 belongs to her and what's off limits and what

3 she would do?

4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I guess the

5 first time I started thinking about, you know,

6 you think kids are oh, to young to start talking

7 about that, but Pinky Barber, a friend of mine,

8 had been to a some kind of seminar on child

9 safety or something. And she wanted me to go

10 along and for some reason I couldn't attend with

11 her, so I discussed with her what -- you know,

12 she said well, that they spent some time talking

13 about how to talk with your children about

14 strangers and all that kind of stuff. And she

15 said I talked to my girls about it.

16 And I said you did? What did you

17 say? She said that's when this bathing suit

18 thing came up. She said I just tell them that

19 nobody touches you where the bathing suit

20 touches.

21 And I thought that was a really

22 great way to approach that, because, you know,

23 those little ones are -- there is boundaries,

24 you know. So JonBenet and I, I don't know,

25 maybe at bath time, maybe when I was putting on

0097

1 her bathing suit or something. You know, these

2 are JonBenet's private parts here, you know,

3 where the bathing suit touches and nobody ever

4 touches your private parts except mommy and

5 Dr. Buff with mommy in the room.



TOM HANEY: But her private parts,

21 as you were describing it, this wasn't I assume

22 a one-time conversation?

23 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, you know, I

24 probably mentioned it more than once. It wasn't

25 something I preached on every day, you know. It

0098

1 was kind of a --




1.PMPT,page 254 :"In this interview Nedra confirmed to police that at age six,her granddaughter was still in the habit of asking adults to wipe her when she was on the toilet.It didn't matter where she was or who the adult was-anyone within shouting distance would do."

Kinda contradicts what Patsy's saying.


2.Maybe it's just me but why would she tell JB "Not daddy, not

Burke, not grampa"

I mean,it's not like she was expecting it to happen or?Why would you "warn" her about it,I wouldn't even THINK of it.I guess I'd rather say "no stranger" or maybe "no boys,no men" but why tell her that daddy and grandpa are not allowed to touch you there???Dunno,to me it's strange.

Isn't it a bit unusual to tell your 4years old daughter that daddy is not allowed to touch you there.......I mean,maybe mommy ain't home one day and daddy needs to bath or undress her,what then?You only manage to confuse the poor kid.

 

Thank you for confirming this, Moab. Over the years I have just copied the text as an image, and naturally the text was the same. Little also confirmed what you're saying above. I have learned my lesson.

 

Not an easy subject to tackle, Madeleine. I see your point. I think little JonBenét Ramsey's lacadaisical habits were well known within the Ramsey family, and the Nanny would no longer be there I'm thinking, with JonBenét being six. JonBenét was still wearing pullups at that age according to a lot of information out there. Obviously this little girl preferred someone else cleaning her up than tackling it herself. This little girl never really had much of a life, did she?

 

I think Patsy was just trying to use them as an example of "the opposite sex" so Jonbenet would understand who wasn't allowed to touch her. I don't think there's anything to this. They were just used as an example, IMO.

 

my girls

My girls were wiping themselves at age 6 and not leaving marks on their panties. gosh I can't even imagine sending a child to school that can't properly wipe their own bottom. It isn't that difficult to learn. I wonder why PR allowed that to be an issue.

 

It seems JonBenét Ramsey getting the Pageant routine correct was more important to Patsy than JB's toilet routine, Texan. Sad!

 

Good point,yes maybe that was her line of thinking.

 

The reality of it is not that JB was "still" wearing pullups.
What was actually the case is that she HAD BEEN completely potty trained by age 3 and REVERTED back to wetting and soiling. Not just in her sleep, but when she was awake, and normal kids LONG before age 6 can sense a full bladder or coming bowel movement and know to get themselves to a toilet or tell an adult they need to go.
Nedra had said that JB's reverting had to do with Patsy's cancer. That happened around age 3, and kids do revert in their potty training when there is a trauma in their lives- even when a sibling is born. But this was a full 3 years later- and Patsy's remission was well-known by all. JB was well past the point where her mother's cancer/treatments were the cause of her "accidents".
It is also well-known that kids who are being sexually abused will wet and soil themselves. This is done to make themselves seem younger than they are (possible to fend off the abuse) and to make themselves "unpleasant" (also to fend off an abuser). But there is also the "discomfort" factor that really isn't discussed much. Kids that have been penetrated are SORE. That hurts and irritates them, and the feeling of passing waste is painful for them. So they hold it in till they can't hold it in any more.

 

good points DeeDee

But another issue is that Nedra said that JBR had trouble wiping herself and that she would ask an adult to wipe her. It would be just as painful to have someone else do the job than if she did it herself. But could it be that it was painful or uncomfortable for her to wipe so she didn't do it/or do it well and it was PR that insisted an adult wipe her?

 

Wow, you are right! The Ramseys, in DOI and elsewhere, are always doing and saying things to try and cover something just like Patsy wearing the same outfit on CNN after the first police interview. It is so evident here, now that you point it out. Patsy is trying to convince LE that there would be no way that Burke or daddy or grandpa could have touched JBR down there because Patsy had instructed JBR that no one, not even daddy can touch you down there. It is so obvious. Actually, in some ways, Patsy was very naive in trying to cover her bases...just like denying that she had no knowledge of how pineapple could have gotten in the house.....

 

Of course children who have been ill can remain bed wetters at night time for a long time. Are you talking about JonBenét soiling herelf during the day and not just at night time DeeDee? How on earth did she ever manage to parade in these pageants if this was the case?

 

Yes, I am talking about her soiling and wetting in the daytime, not just at night. JB was not ill, either. We are not talking about bedwetting here. Bedwetting is not all that unusual in kids that age (and even some older) and is not usually associated with abuse. Some kids just sleep so soundly that a full bladder does not wake them up.
That is not what the issue was with JB. She both soiled and wet herself.
I am sure she must have worn pullups under her pageant finery. Pullups and diapers have come a long way since I had my babies in the '70s. They are thin now, much less bulky. They would probably not be noticed under a pair of thin girl's panties, and don't necessitate a larger size panty. I am sure Patsy was mortified about her daughter's "problem", especially on the pageant circuit.

 

Not painful to wipe. Painful to EXCRETE. The wiping isn't the problem. It is the actual passing of urine or feces that is uncomfortable if there has been sexual abuse. The wiping is simply unpleasant for some kids. They don't like to touch feces, and sometimes don't know how to protect their hands well enough with toilet tissue.
Also, some kids just don't wipe till they are clean, and so there is some discomfort associated with that, as well as staining of the underwear.
Yet, some kids have no problem. My 3-year old grandson can get himself to a potty, go, and wipe himself completely, flush, wash his hands. All without adult help. And he's been able to do this since he was 2. I do his laundry when I visit, and there is never any soiling or staining in his underwear.
With JB, she seemed to have a more "issues" with potty use than the average 6 year old girl.

 

I just realized that PR KNEW EXACTLY what she's exposing JB to and what risks a pageant involves.IMO that is the reason she made sure JB understands(at age 4!!!) that men are not allowed to touch her there.
Maybe it wasn't after all about a man in the family but PR knew what kind of sickos she's exposing JB to,on a golden plate,for free. She KNEW very well.But she probably didn't care,she "did her job" as a responsible mother and warned JB,right?:hopmad:

 

@bold
I agree,that's a red flag.

 

actually

I was wondering where it was said that she was wetting herself during the day. My memory isn't what it was but I only recall reading that she wet the bed and sometimes also soiled it. PR stated that the pants/panties in the photo were stained due to poor wiping and her answer certainly can't be trusted but there would be a big difference between "skid marks" and actually having a bowel movement in her clothes and I would hope whoever was questioning PR would point that out if there were more there than just some staining.

 

I believe it was common knowledge among Patsy's circle that JB had daytime "accidents". Not just bedwetting.
Bedwetting at that age is not that unusual, UNLESS the child had been previously dry. Soiling the bed at any age beyond diaper-wearing children is much more unusual. It is the reoccurrence of the bedwetting (and any daytime accidents) that is the problem, not so much her age itself.
I had read that the opinion of some who saw the stains in JB's clothing and underwear said that it seemed to be much more than "skid marks".
LHP said she used to find feces actually in JB's bed. And not just what would leak out of a pullup.

 

IMO...how would John have known what the "intruder" meant to leave with JB's body? "It wasn't supposed to be there", imo...was John slipping up, because it was either him or Patsy that got that blanket out of the dryer, the gown came out via static cling...and they didn't notice it. So..."it wasn't supposed to be there".