If Patsy is the killer....

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by koldkase, Mar 1, 2007.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    In Schiller's documentary shown the night Patsy was buried, one juror was interviewed and said she felt that way, with Schiller also stating that about the grand jury in general--as in "they didn't believe a parent could do this." The thing is, we never heard either of them say that was the decision of the grand jury. We never heard either of them say the grand jury even voted. We never heard either of them say the grand jury wrote an opinion.

    So we have an EDITED excerpt from an interview, a sound bite, and we don't truly know if that meant this juror would have voted no bill, if any of the others would have voted no bill, or if any vote was even taken.

    You see, the prosecutor has to instruct the jury to vote. We have never had anyone but the RST say they did. EVER.

    But in his book where he discusses the case, Dr. Lee said that HE advised Hunter NOT to bring an indictment after the grand jury finished. The way I read THAT is that Hunter HAD THE GRAND JURY VOTE TO DO SO. Unless Hunter could go AGAINST a grand jury vote that was no bill. In some states, no grand jury is even needed to indict for a crime. I honestly can't remember what the law is in Colorado. So...we're back to NOT KNOWING what the grand jury was asked to do, what they did, nor what they thought personally.

    That's my opinion from all I've read and heard on this case, anyway.
  2. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

  3. Elle

    Elle Member

    Sorry sboyd, I was having trouble trying to connect to FFJ. Thank you for replying KK. :)

    I remember seeing one female juror on TV talking about this, and I got the impression from her, that the jury didn't think the parents could actually do this. The Grand Jury never even wrote a report.

    What a weakling Alex Hunter was. He didn't want anything falling on his shoulders.
  4. Kangatruth

    Kangatruth Member

    I also feel that "honest" John will never be charged, for the varying reasons as limitations and contaminated evidence etc.
    what might happen is that eventually, hopefully he will be publicly outed, shamed..and called for what he is. This will be done in such a manner that his only ability to refute it will be to bring it to court..and the onus being on him to prove it wrong, which he wont be able to.
    The absolute details seem to be the only undetermined aspect.. as all things evidenciary and annecdotal suggest Patsy did it, for what ever reason, and she and John were complicit from that monet on. His observance to this was dictated to and reminded in the ransom note.

    They only fool sycophants and incompetents ( unfortunately no shortage of either , especially office bearers)
    Marple and Poirot would have had this nailed in 48 hrs with time for tea and scones...but as mentioned it was the Keystone Kops or rather the Dudley Dooright of DA's that ran this case ( right into the ground ).

    The Karma Faeries work in mysterious ways..... this aint over yet !!!
  5. Elle

    Elle Member

    Much and all as John Ramsey tries to live a normal life, Kanga, it never will be. He has to be haunted with what took place that tragic night. He must see people looking at him, wondering what his part in this crime was. I hope this scene never changes for him.
  6. tylin

    tylin Banned

    Well said.
  7. Little

    Little Member

    I agree with Tylin 100% here Elle - "Well Said".

    As much as the family was programmed to state they just wanted to get on with their lives, I seriously doubt that it was ever "got on with" the way they wanted it to. There was just way too much unfinished business left on the table, by them, not any one else. Tracey/Lacy/Smit/Stine/Wood, and many others, tried to be their spokespersons, but the fact is, only the Ramseys could clean up the mess they created. There are some things money can't buy and a clear conscience is one of them.

  8. heymom

    heymom Member

    Assuming John Ramsey HAS a conscience...Which I am not assuming.
  9. Tez

    Tez Member

    I would not assume anything about JR, except that he is a cold-hearted SOB.
  10. heymom

    heymom Member

    Was watching A&E last night - The Iceman - a hitman who actually has NO conscience whatsoever. Really frightening person whose eyes reflect back no soul that I could see at all. He killed people just because they made him mad, and then the mob got ahold of him and paid him to do it. Absolutely no remorse, it was just a job to him. Well, he was kind of proud of himself, really. I was terrified for the psychologist who was interviewing him.

    JR isn't on the scale of this guy, Kuklinksi, but I believe he is on that spectrum.
  11. Pearlsim

    Pearlsim FFJ Senior Member


    I can't see JR being hired by the mob to kill and I can't see him being proud of his ability to do so.

    What I do see is a man who can clean up the "messes" in his life and not look back. No remorse, just a feeling of "I handled the situation and did what I needed to do."

    I hope somewhere in his being, JR is haunted by what he did/let happen to his six year old, completely vulnerable and trusting little girl. While he may have a sense of having taken care of the problem, I hope visions of the horror of that night are etched so deep into his soul that he can't shake them.
  12. sboyd

    sboyd Member

    On a different topic, but in some ways the same, I read Cherokee's analysis of the ransom note and it is excellent, but one part I was not sure of was the fact that he says they specifically put in the ransom note if you contact anyone, she dies, etc. and that the reason for this is they knew they would contact their friends in the a.m. and then later on that day the body would be found and the killers had in fact made good on their plan.

    The only thing wrong with this is - the Ramseys had to know that forensics would be able to tell when JonBenet died and it would in fact come to light that JonBenet had died sometime that evening or very very early morning, say 1:00 a.m. But then again, since I am leaning towards John knowing about this murder and aiding and abetting in the staging, for him to let a ransome note of three pages be written shows that he was fairly insane at the time and not thinking very clearly and so it is possible that that was their plan. It just seems highly unlikely since he was reading John Douglas' book at the time and had to know that forensics plays an enormous part in solving the crime.

    I just think they were both insane and he let the note be written just to shut Patsy up and get this whole thing over with. Also, he might have thought it a good thing because "why would we implicate ourselves with a three page note".
  13. heymom

    heymom Member

    No, but that is *exactly* what Kuklinski did - he handled situations and did what he needed to do, just on a much bigger scale.

    If JR does have sociopathic tendencies, then he has no real conscience to be haunted by. There is no vision of horror, as you and I would feel, because it wasn't that horrific to him, just something that happened and was fixed.

    He isn't the cold calm killer that someone like Kuklinski was, because I have seen the video where he absolutely stumbles vocally all over himself when asked if he had anything to do with JonBenet's death. But remorse? I don't think so.
  14. tylin

    tylin Banned

    You made an interesting statement that I totally agree with.

    Oh and I so hope the events of that night are etched in his mind for ever and ever.
  15. heymom

    heymom Member

    I highly doubt it. I think he buried those thoughts or memories when he put JonBenet in the ground.
  16. Elle

    Elle Member

    Another way to look at this lengthy ransom note sb is that John Ramsey was banking on the fact that everyone knew he was a very good business man, and it would be difficult for those who dealt with him in business transactions etc., to believe he would have condoned a "War and Peace" ransom note.

    Like Patsy banking on the Grand Jury not being able to relate her to the disgusting abuse to JonBenét either before, or after death. The Ramseys used Psychology throughout their staging.

    Patsy Ramsey may have been the ringleader here with her journalistic expertise, and her theatrical experience walking the boards in her beauty pageants and talent contests.
  17. heymom

    heymom Member

    I'm sure they were both freaked out and not thinking clearly, not as clearly as they might have. Yet, they did make some critical decisions like having friends over, and getting approval for Pam to make that evidence raid, that prove they knew what to grab and what to ruin. I think John let Patsy run wild with the note, hoping that it would sound like a crazy person and not the Nice Wealthy Businessman and His Wife that he and Patsy were.

    It shows they weren't totally comfortable with what happened, since there were holes in their staging. They were just lucky to be in Boulder that night.
  18. sboyd

    sboyd Member

    Who gave Pam the okay to go into the house and take what she wanted. Do you know?
  19. heymom

    heymom Member

    No one knows for sure. She had an officer to drive her, to guard her, and she was wearing a BPD jacket with a badge on it, so she wouldn't alert the newsmedia to the Evidence Raid. It had to have been OK'd by either the DA or the Police Chief. She got an entire trunk-load full of stuff, with the excuse of getting some clothing for JonBenet's funeral. I'm about 99.9% certain that the evidence of the crime was removed in that trunk full of stuff.
  20. sboyd

    sboyd Member

    Well why didn't they just help them also dispose of the body, since they did everything else for them. No reason to stop there.

    Heymom, please figure this one out and tell me who killed JonBenet. What do you think?

    I was thinking the other day that they lie pretty well. My son says Patsy does not and that she looks like she is hiding something.

    I don't know if you saw the man on tv a week or so ago, maybe two. His wife was missing - he said. She had just come back from Puerto Rico and he said they had a fight on the way home and she left shortly after comng home in a black car. They have since found her body in the garage. Anyway, my point is the following:

    When they interviewed him, he was one of the best liars I ever saw. When he was asked if he should be a suspect he said "I don't know, maybe, I know the police have to look at me. It is their job. I just don't know. I am talking sincere here. When it was not clear that he did it, I said, maybe he didn't. Then all the evidence came out and he strangled her and cut her up in the garage.

    So as normal as John looks (Patsy always is too stoned, most of the time, to tell - although there was one time on LKL that I thought dam, this woman is good. She looks well put together and answered coherently and was believeable). But I digress. As normal as John looks in answering (he too is strange with his smirk) but you know what I mean, soft spoken, etc., as normal as he looks, he lied VERY EASILY about Burke being up. There people can just lie as if they were going to the store to buy bread.
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