JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon

Wonderful OpenMind4U! What a beautiful country Russia is. It is so nice of you to join us here. I come from Scotland but emigrated to Canada many years ago. I'm thinking our Scottish language sometimes sounds the same as yours. :cafe: :grouphug: This is a group hug from all of us! I'm sure you know that it was Sean Connery who was in the movie "From Russia With Love." He is Scottish too!

Special hugs to otg. :hug:

Please excuse the interruption here folks!

P.S. Truthfully, although born in Scotland, I actually have an Irish background with both both parents!

 

Koldkase,

My first thought about JonBenét`s head injury was seeing her sitting at a table eating her pineapple, with someone coming right behind her with the flashlight, the one which was wiped clean!

 

I've gone back to the thread here to review the location of that head injury, and you're right about it being more in the "back" than I was thinking.

Sorry, I forgot that cynic and otg had given us better info on the location of the comminuted fracture on an older thread about the weapon here: http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10160

Also, in reviewing the contrecoup injury to the brain in the frontal area of the brain, her head did snap forward with some damaging velocity.

But it gives me pause as far as her body being propelled from the blow. For one thing I'm not aware of injuries she had that implicated they were from any kind of fall...? Perhaps you have thought this out and can point those out to me?

Also, I'm thinking her skull absorbed most of the force of that blow, which is why there is so much damage to it.

Then there is the neck--her head must have snapped forward to cause the contrecoup injury, which her neck would also have mitigated as far as forward motion?

But if the force were "downward" onto the skull, even from the rear, and the skull absorbed most of that force, I'm still not seeing evidence she was then also propelled by that same force into another surface, enough to cause other injuries. 48 lbs of limp body would require some force to move it significantly in any direction against gravity, I'm thinking.

But science isn't my strong suit and I'm open to how this all transpired, so I'm interested in your ideas on this.

 

OH, how wonderful! I've been in love with Russia since studying ballet as a young adult. Oh, the Bolshoi! The unparalleled dancers and choreography! Of course, Baryshnikov is a major crush. The man is super human! :cafe:

So happy you have joined us at FFJ, comrade. (Okay, that's corny, but it's all I've got. :blush Huge love and big hugs back!:toast:

 

I have to apologize for not getting through this thread sooner, otg. I think I do get the point you made that the object used to inflict the blow was something cylindrical? I haven't posted much about it, and for that I apologize, but I did get distracted with other posts because I started at the end of the thread. So I took it off topic, and I apologize for that, as well.

I know you worked hard on this, so please forgive my insensitivity.

As for your experiments being in bad taste, I understand that we all have different perspectives and I'm sorry wombat found this offensive. I'm sure you didn't mean to offend anyone. It's a tough topic and sometimes that will happen.

Honestly, there have been so many purely horrific elements of this case we've discussed and anaylzed and pulled apart and put back together through the years, including the autopsy photos we've seen so many times we've grown used to the shocking fact that they are of a violently murdered child, it's hard to imagine we don't offend--and often.

In that context, I have to say what you did was not offensive to me in any way. When you demonstrated with the orange, I just saw an orange used to make a point.

Still, I respect wombat's feelings, as I know you and all of us do.

I do still have a few questions about your demonstration and I need to finish reading a few pages before I ask, as you may have already explained. Again, sorry it's taking me so long, but I'm blaming hubby--he's so handy that way! :laffbig:

My best to your wife, as well.

 

Well said, Koldkase. otg needed to hear these words. It is difficult to
keep a cool head with this case and not hurt someone.

 

Deleting because I'm repeating myself.

 

Okay, I think I'm caught up and here's my question:

I may be confused because you keep using big words...yeah, it's like THAT. :yes: But in your last video with the animation, the last "view" has me turned around so that it appears to me you're displaying a strke ACROSS the skull, side to side, versus from back to front.

I must have that wrong I know, but it appears that's how you conclude the cylindrical object "plied" the skull apart at the fracture and caused the linear break on both sides?

I have to have this wrong, as the "orange" illustration seems to demonstrate the opposite, as the first two animations do, as well.

Sorry to be a pain, but can you clear that up for me, using simple words for my five year old level of competence? Like "back of head" and "above the head"...?

Okay, I could look it up on the other thread, I know.... :shamed:

Okay, I'll do that.

 

Me, too, elle. Come sit by me in the "dunce" seats. :highfive:

Another thing that I am struggling with is that some are so sure it took an adult to cause this type of head injury.

That may be true, but I have raised a few kids and there's a reason they sell foam bats and balls for small children and have even T-ball teams wear helmets now.

I think it's entirely possible for a child Burke's age to cause this damage, with the right instrument.

But that brings it back to wombat's observation that it would have to be high velocity rather than large mass.

Maybe this is why some favor a golf club as the weapon. They sure had enough of them around the house and yard.

But I did buy a Maglite about 12 years ago, similar in size to the one the Ramseys owned. I still have it: it uses 3 D batteries, I believe, and it is quite adequate to cause some kind of head injury. This is why cops carry them instead of billy clubs now, right?

I'm not saying I think Burke bludgeoned his sister or that he did it with a golf club or Maglite. I'm just keeping this possiblity open as I'm still trying to grasp so much.

Aw heck, I may as well get out the Maglite and take some photos to add to this thread, since otg has gone to so much trouble.

Let me see if I can find it, as I think hubs has absconded with it somewhere. (See, told you he's a perfect scapegoat!)

 

Found the Maglite...YEAH, HUBS HAD IT in his man-cave...which some may know as the garage.

So I weighed it on a on old scale he also has lying around--no, he doesn't sell drugs, but this scale is an artifact from his job--long story, don't ask.

Here's what I have so far: the Maglite is approx. 12 inches long--a little more, but my ruler is only 12 inches/35 cm, so that's as close enough.

The batteries weighed at appox. 15.5 ounces; the Maglight without the batteries weighed approx. 14. 5 ounces. So together the Maglight with 3 D batteries weighs 30 ounces, or 2 ounces less than 2 lbs. (Sorry, OpenMind4U, I can't do those calculations in metric, our older generations can be dumb like that here in the U.S.)

So I'll take some photos and see if I can get those up today.

 

I wish this could be solved, KK. It's so frustrating! If it was Burke Ramsey,
his life must be sheer hell to try and live a normal life. He will never have it! I don't know how he and his father can continue trying to lead normal lives if they were both truly involved with the murder and cover up! (?).

 

I have no understanding how anyone could live with this for 16 years, or a lifetime. But there are people who have no problem doing so, obviously.

Now I'm afraid I've run everyone off with too much of my opinion. Sometimes I think the forum does better when I let others have the floor.

OH well. I have spent the afternoon taking video of my Maglite and I'm going to post some of the pictures I captured from it. Maybe it will be of interest, maybe not.

At any rate, I do appreciate otg's work on this and looking at these photos and measurements and weights, I must admit I find it plausible this could have been the weapon. Particularly the smaller end where you open it to put the batteries in.

Of course, it proves nothing.

 

To set up the details: this is my own Maglite, which I bought around 2001-02, I estimate. I had never heard of the brand "Maglite" before this case. When I bought this one at a local Lowe's store, it was the approx. size of the one I was under the impression was found at the Ramsey home. I've seen smaller ones since, but I think this length is the one Dr. Spitz used in his photo demo, so maybe that's where I got my impression. Others may dispute this; feel free to share info if you have it, and thanks in advance.

The measuremeants I took today with the Maglite:

The Maglite is approx. 12 inches long--a little more, but my ruler is only 12 inches/35 cm, so that's as close enough.

The batteries weighed at appox. 15.5 ounces; the Maglight without the batteries weighed approx. 14. 5 ounces. So together the Maglight with 3 D batteries weighs 30 ounces, or 2 ounces less than 2 lbs.

Pictures I took today using a standard one foot/35 cm metal ruler:

 

I agree 100% Elle. I'd add that Burke has never known "normal."

 

More pics of my Maglite:

The bulb end mesaures approx. 2.25 inches/5.5 cm.

The other end opens with screw threads, where 3 D batteries are installed. That end measures 1.5 inches/4 cm.

[These are approx. measurements as some photos show. I tried to include some "to scale" pics of the ends, but of course that's approx., as well. Some pics have a distortion between the camera lens, the ruler, and the Maglite, due to the "fading horizon" effect, and don't portray an accurate scale comparison.]

 

To be more precise, in looking at your experiments, otg, here is the cylindrical column of the Maglite without the slightly larger blunt end cap, for measurement. I'm also including battery measurements, just to be anal about it all. :lame:

 

I think Burke had no conscience about whatever he did that night, Elle. Some might say that proves his innocence, but I think his very weird reactions and his statements to the psychiatrist show that he DID know or do something that night, and that he did NOT miss his sister at all, but acted as if she had never existed and went on with his life. As if he had just gotten rid of a pebble in his shoe, so to speak. So in his mind, maybe whatever he did was fully justified, and then both of his parents may have told him that no, he didn't really do that after all. And, he could have had extensive therapy in the meantime.

 

I can certainly see JB getting whacked while sitting on a chair eating pineapple. She would have slumped over, possibly on the table or on the floor, but it would have been more of a "slide" to the floor. Yes, there was contrecoup bruising in her brain, showing the brain was slammed against the front of the brain case. This was likely from the force of the blow, but could have come from someone shaking her to "bring her around" (although there are usually other evidences of this).
But that huge crack was from the blow, and would not have happened from her body falling.
As I have explained, the laws of physics are pretty inflexible- she was simply not big/heavy enough to cause THAT kind of fracture in a fall to the floor from a standing position. Carpet area or not. And she would have fallen forward. This crack is to the rear and spits directly from the depressed fracture (the point of impact). Think of a large impact crater in pavement. You'd have the large hole made by whatever slammed into it, and then there would be large cracks and fissures emanating from the hole.

 

I do agree with DeeDee. The linear 8 1/2" 'crack' didn't happened from the fall. Now, to answer KK question 'HOW do I think it happens'.

IMO, JonBenet didn't fall at all! Again, just my opinion based on the physics, autopsy report and photos.

I believe in the following:

- the place of an assult was in basement;
- acute sexual injury was NOT part of the 'staging'!!! This is my strongest believe.
- when sexual assult happens, JB was bonded with the rope in sitting position, tide to the chair;
- from the pain, JB screams (assuming that it was JB's scream which neighbor across the street heared) and to keep her quiet - someone hit her HEAD from behind;
- JB didn't fall because she was restrained with the rope to the chair.

Above is just an outline of what I do believe happens. Now, I need to add some details to bring this 'blury vision' into 'contrast' without going into 'theory' assay.

The basement was the main area for children's to play. Especially for Burke and his friends. Besides the crime scene, what was unusual in association with the basement?

- the wraping paper have been torned-off by Burke from X-mas presents;
- some 'provocative' photos of JB have been found hidden in basement's laundry room area;
- the toilet has been recently used but not flushed, with the poop still in it (who's poop was it? Im sure not JR's and not PR's);
- certain things have been absorved in regards to basement bathroom (not sure if it was applicapable for this particular night or not). For example: on the window seal some red fibers have been found; the window has been opened; outside of the window, some disturbance inside the grate has been noticed;
- now, this famous CHAIR. I'm sure why it was important for JR to mention that HE touched/moved it. Unfortunately, we don't know much about this chair in regards of forensics.

Looks to me, children activities were in the basement recently (possible, in that evening). The fact that 'dirty' pictures were hidden in the area where children usually plays - telling me that these pictures were used by children. I don't know who made them. But if JR or PR have made these pictures - they would NEVER hide them in the basement where children plays and could easily find them to inflict potential embarrassment to Ramsey's 'clan'.

Now, the most important question for me: who was in the basement with JB that night? I do believe Burke was there for sure. Who else?!!! You probably think that I'm going too far with some kind of 'intruder' suggestion. Let me assure you, I don't believe in 'intruder' but I have an 'open mind' in regards of the 'special guest'. Why would I even think that way?

Prior to answer you, I'll ask you an important question: by knowing and understanding JB's acute (7 o'clock) injury to her vagina and assuming it was done by some kind of wooden 'instrument', was it done from her FRONT or from her BACK?

I believe it was done from the FRONT. And if I'm correct then I cannot 'see' how someone can sexually assult JB on the FRONT of her BOTTOM's body and at NO TIME delivers the blow to her head from the BACK of her TOP body....??? Do you know what I mean? This is the weakest link in my BDI 'vision': JB's POSITION while sexual assult happens.

OK. I'll stop right here and wait for your responses. Please be nice :bowdown:...

jmo

 

Yes, hm, I remember reading about his strange behaviour as you have posted above. I also felt he was neglected in this family with all the attention focused on Jonbenét and her pageant outfits etc. He was more concerned about his Nintendo than the death of his sister. He was under psychiatric care after Jonbenét's death for quite some time. I'm sure it will come back to haunt him.