JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon

　
My thoughts on the injuries to JonBenét's vagina are totally different OM4U. I have always felt these injuries were done after she was dead to camouflage the sexual interference previously done by whomever (?).
With the cover-up being performed by Patsy and John Ramsey, they must have already known their daughter was being sexually interfered with long before the present time Christmas 1996, and knowing the coroner would find out about the previous sexual interference, they tried to add more injury to injury to hide the previous evidence.

I also think the tying up of JonBenét was also part of the cover-up. Like you, I don't believe there was an intruder, just Patsy and John covering up for their young son (?). jmo

 

Good photographs KK. My first thought years ago was the flashlight. Looking at this black one makes me think the same all over again! Talk about confusion!

 

I believe all you're saying here, DeeDee. You explain it so well, thank you!
I have always felt Jonbenét was sitting eating her pineapple when the blow was struck on the back top of her head. Poor defenceless little girl! Not a single soul there to save her!

 

Elle, I understand, you're among MAJORITY of posters who believed that acute injury was part of the staging. I do respect everyone's opinion (almost everyone...

But how ONE POCK to vagina could 'camouflage' the prior sexual abuse? How the person who did such an act of 'staging' would know FOR SURE that this particular pock WAS indeed successful? He/she sees the blood and assuming he/she pocked EXECTLY the previously damaged area????...and after, what was the reason to clean it?....

I'm not trying to 'convert' you to 'my believes'...I simply trying to understand the logic behind 'acute injury = staging'. If someone could convince me wrong - I'll be more than happy to admit my mistake.

Regardless, thank you for reply Elle!!!!!!

 

And after reading Chief Kolar's book, I have a completely different theory from either of you - I think the person who was committing the sexual abuse was the same one who did the acute abuse that night, after the head blow when JonBenet was unconscious. I can see the person poking her with the train track piece, in 2 locations, turning her over if she had been lying face down, or on her stomach if she were facing up, and then deciding, "Well, she can't stop me know, so let's try something else." The paint brush tray was handy, grab a brush, snap it and do whatever. Still no response from JonBenet. Hmmm...let's try this cord and see what happens.

I think Kolar couldn't say anything at the end of his book because he believes that most of what happened that night was done by a young child, one that still has most of his life to live, and one that has been protected by his parents and has strong legal protection. That's what I got out of the last couple of chapters of his book. I'm going to re-read it and see if my initial observations and theories come out that same way, but to my mind, this theory seems to make most of the issues we've had through the years go away.

I do not believe that John or Patsy really knew about the sexual abuse. I think Patsy may have been in denial about what might have been happening, except for those calls to Dr. Beuf's answering service. She may have had a revelation or perhaps JonBenet actually told her something that night. But it was Christmas, a big season for Patsy and JonBenet, there were appearances and parties to attend, so she hadn't dealt with it properly and then the night of 12/25 came about.

And, if there had been anyone else in the house that night, I'm sure Chief Kolar would have alluded to that or flat-out told us. No, I think what happened, was done by one main Ramsey and covered up by the other 2, perhaps with advice from their lawyer or others in high places.

 

OM4U,

I feel it was Patsy Ramsey who broke the paint brush. She knew where her paint box was, and time was of the essence. In her mind one way to cover the previous abuse was to distort the present evidence, and the sharp edges of the broken wooden handle would maybe distort the present abrasions which were already there.

So...who do you think was in the basement with JonBenét? The only other three people in the house were her mother, father, and brother! (?).

 

All I can reply with hm is I feel Patsy Ramsey should have known at all times where her young six year old daughter was, and who she was with at all times. Good grief a six year old can carry out a conversation; therefore JonBenét must have told Patsy something about the person who was misbehaving.

I can't believe Chief Kolar had the courage to write his book but not the courage to face the consequences of the actual truth being told. I am very disappointed in him! It won't hurt me one bit what anyone tries to post here in his defense about all the legal drama that could happen to him if he did. He's come this far, why not put an end to it!(?)

 

Oh, my! Looks like we’ve got everyone’s cyber-sleuth juices flowing. That’s great! Now, like koldkase, looks like I’ll be working to play catch-up (here, and at WS).

Thanks, Elle and OM4U, for the virtual hugs. RBAY (Right Back At You). :grouphug:

Koldkase, I’m glad Cherokee sent you the guilt bomb and broke you out of the “Old Pyrates Home” irate:. Don’t know why you were staying away (I know we all have other things to deal with from time to time), but it’s good to know that we now have koldkase on the case. (And congratulations on figuring out and using my ploy :whistle: of blaming absences on our other halves :laughup:.)

For the time being, I’ll leave the speculation on what any of this might mean to the fine people here who have worked on this for so long and have contributed so much to trying to figure it all out. What I hope to accomplish is to at least narrow down the list of possible things that might have caused that God-awful fracture in JonBenet’s head. Because there were two types of fractures, I think a lot of people were confused (and I include myself in that group). But I think (and hope to demonstrate) that it is not nearly as complicated as we might think. If we find the shape and dynamics of what caused it, I believe the reason for the results (as manifest in JonBenet’s skull) will become obvious and understandable. As I said in the title of my first post in this thread, I believe the depressed fracture is a fingerprint of the weapon that caused it (Actually what I wanted to say, but was limited on the number of characters in the title, is that it is a fingerprint of the shape of the weapon.).

If you’ve followed my (slow) progress on this, I hope everyone will agree at least at this point that the depressed fracture is oval (elliptical actually, but we’ll get to that later because it’s important), not “rectangular”, as Dr. Meyer stated in the AR. I believe I know why he might have thought that at the time he pulled back the scalp, but I’ll go into detail on that later. Also, if you have followed along with me, hopefully you’ll agree that possible weapons that can be eliminated are:

1. Ball-peen hammer (either end)
2. Fireplace tool
3. Any flat surface
4. The bulb end of a flashlight as demonstrated by Dr. Spitz in his photo demo only
5. Brick (taken into evidence early in the investigation when BPD was looking for anything that might have caused a skull fracture)
6. Crowbar (TG for being able to eliminate that red herring)
7. Golf putter (at least one used as I had thought earlier when I believed the AR description)
8. Baseball bat knob

If you agree with the above list -- great. If you disagree -- let me know and we’ll discuss.

Now I’ve gotta play catch-up.

 

OTG, so happy to see you back. We need your valuable input!

I agree with your list!

 

Koldkase, since I don’t have a Maglite, I certainly appreciate your contributions here. I anteed up for the modeling clay, the toy skull, and a used baseball bat. I had to draw the line at the cost of a set of golf clubs or a brand new Maglite, so I’m glad you’ve got one -- and I’m still holding out hope for contributions from our golfers.

And, kk, don’t ever think that “the forum does better when (you) let others have the floor.†This is still a forum, and not a soapbox.

Before you posted the dimensions, all I had to go by was this.

I have to share with you that until I started doing these experiments, I had dismissed the Maglite as not being capable of causing the head injuries. Now, I’m not as sure of that (were it used in such a way as to have been the cause -- not like Dr. Spitz apparently thought it might have been used).

Oh, and kk, we don’t call that being anal, (or anally retentive) anymore. Please. Some of us (who could be) might be offended. Now, its politically correct term is OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder), and it is said that “OCD is sometimes associated with above-average intelligenceâ€. So don’t apologize for it, I appreciate the attention to detail.

 

Okay, so now I'm going back to the other thread started by cynic which has some answers to our questions about force needed to cause that fracture, etc.

For some reason, I didn't remember these exact details cynic provided for us--either I skimmed it because I was (once again) behind when I entered this thread discussion and like I said--big words, insufficient brain power; OR I don't remember it because my old brain is like that now. Probably a little bit of both.

But here is part of cynic's post which gives us info on the thickness of a child's skull in various places and the force needed to fracture a human skull:

Cynic posted:

Here is the autopsy photo of JonBenet's skull cap:



[Did we address BOESP's question about this photo? If not, yes, this is the actual autopsy photo. The black and white image is just an "enhancement" of this color photo, rendered black and white with a computer program--I think, instead of an x-ray, but others think it is an x-ray, so maybe someone can source that?]

So my focus is now on the size of the comminuted fracture we're discussing.

In another post on the fractures in which you made your point about that squiggly line on the back of the comminuted fracture, otg, which I now understand but didn't then: it follows the line of the "sutures" where the child's skull was growing together...or something like that. You called it "Wormian" after a man who named it...poor guy.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=191958&postcount=27

I do believe you've mentioned this in relation to your current experiments as a part of your observations you'll get to later, so hope I haven't jumped too soon, otg. If so, my apologies. But in trying to keep up with all the big words, I'm including the picture you posted of those "lamboid sutures" for comparison:



OTG posted:

Okay, have to come back in a bit and work on this post more. Hubs is talking to me and I can't concentrate until he finds something else to do. :gottarun:

 

:floor: I WANT MY AFTERNOON BACK! LOL Well, glad to know we do have the very precise measurements and weights, and not just my clumsy efforts. Anyhow....

I'm wondering if the blunt end, where the batteries are inserted, might have been pointed at the head, rather than the lamp end. With your demonstration, perhaps it doesn't even matter, if only the long trunk made contact?

Thanks for the pep talk, but in all honestly, I only got so...OCD...after you and cynic and others put me to shame with your precision and dogged research to uncover the truth no one in LE is ever going to reveal, obviously. So my "OCD" is just faked in trying to keep up with all you brainiacs. :headache:

 

Someone help me here (koldkase, DeeDee, anyone?)... I know it’s been discussed a great deal before, and maybe it’s just been taken for granted as an assumed fact, but where in the AR is there something that indicates a contrecoup brain injury? I don’t see it. The mentioned small contusions at the tips of the temporal lobes (if I understand correctly the principle of coup vs. contrecoup) would be toward the posterior (oops, sorry kk, I’ve been called out on that -- ahem... the back) of the brain where the head blow was inflicted. BTW, contrecoup injuries to the front of the brain are much more likely to occur than to the back if the amount of force is the same (reference). Also, contrecoup injuries always occur opposite the area of the force. In this case, the force would be toward the back, but still also the top of the head. Being toward the top of the head makes a contrecoup injury less likely, because the opposite site of the head blow would be around the base of the brain, and the force would be distributed between the top and the back of the skull.

I’m not trying to dispute the concept of a contrecoup injury... I’m just trying to find where anyone sees the evidence of it in the AR.

TIA.

 

A strike with a golf putter, using the pointed ends, may have been eliminated, but a blow using a regular golf iron, such as the one pictured below, has not. In addition, some golf putters, especially those available in 1996, and particularly those included in junior golf sets, did not have the exaggerated end points that are more common today.

In response to your experiments, please note the cylindrical properties of the heel and shaft of the golf iron.

 

Okay, I said I wasn't going to speculate on what the evidence tells us so far, but I have to at least say I agree with both of you (DD and OM) on the possibilities you both present (except as noted previously about my question about the contrecoup injuries).

OM, I see where you’re going with the frontal vs. back injuries and how that could possibly bring in the question of another person’s involvement with the assault. But let me help you with what you call the “weakest link†in your “BDI visionâ€. How about if because of the sudden pain from the sexual assault and surely bleeding from the injury, she looks down while the perpetrator is standing in front of her? Maybe the sight of her bleeding is what caused her to scream. Then when the head blow is struck, the back of her head would be exposed to the downward arc of the swing of a weapon coming from in front of her. Yes? I’m not saying I think that’s how it happened... But it could have. Agreed?

 

I thought the injury was actually on the top part of her head at the end, but looking at this diagram, Cherokee, it's almost the top back part of the head, therefore the heel of the club could have made an oval shape, so I
can't eliminate this type of club from otg's list! (?). I just have to get this right. I just checked the one with the actual photograph of JB's skull and I can see that it's on the top curve of the head. Thank you for posting this. So otg if you are reading this, you will know I have to leave the golf club/putter on your list. Sorry about this! I want to get it right!

 

Yes, dear otg. Agree....but now we need to think who's left-handed (to deliver the head injury while standing on FRONT of JB's top body) and right-handed (to deliver 7 o'clock acute injury to her vagina from the FRONT of JB's bottom body), agree :no:?...I know, alot of assumptions on my part....please ignore....

jmo

 

Cherokee and Elle,

Sorry I wasn't very clear on this. I said, "Golf putter (at least one used as I had thought earlier when I believed the AR description)." That is all that I have eliminated along the lines of golf clubs... so far.

 

OTG, may I put in a request?

Have you (or anyone else) considered one of the pageant trophies as a weapon? Or maybe a part of the wooden headboard in her bedroom that we see in the crime scene photos? (Hey ... that covers both bases ... high velocity/low pressure with the trophy and low velocity/high pressure with her head slammed into one of the posts or along the top edge of the headboard ).

 

<HR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1; COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1 sab="529"><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" sab="535"><TBODY sab="536"><TR sab="537"><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2 sab="538">Originally Posted by Cherokee
A strike with a golf putter, using the pointed ends, may have been eliminated, but a blow using a regular golf iron, such as the one pictured below, has not. In addition, some golf putters, especially those available in 1996, and particularly those included in junior golf sets, did not have the exaggerated end points that are more common today.

In response to your experiments, please note the cylindrical properties of the heel and shaft of the golf iron.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" sab="548"><TBODY sab="549"><TR sab="550"><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2 sab="551">Originally Posted by Elle_1
I thought the injury was actually on the top part of her head at the end, but looking at this diagram, Cherokee, it's almost the top back part of the head, therefore the heel of the club could have made an oval shape, so I can't eliminate this type of club from otg's list! (?). I just have to get this right. I just checked the one with the actual photograph of JB's skull and I can see that it's on the top curve of the head. Thank you for posting this. So otg if you are reading this, you will know I have to leave the golf club/putter on your list. Sorry about this! I want to get it right!

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For a long time I didn't think this injury was golf club related otg, and leaned more towards the flashlight. Have you anything else in mind?
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