Judge has ruled Ramsey Grand Jury indictment must be released

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by wombat, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


  2. Tez

    Tez Member

    Yep, that's what he's doing....LOL

    Meanwhile, we are doing this...LOL:genie::genie::genie:

    I was shocked when I seen the article on my FB feed. I kind of figured it would be next week or so.

    KoldKase, your presence is sorely missed at WS. We can't do it alone, please come back.
  3. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member


    Sorry don't know the rest of the words.

    But it is a great day for justice my friends.

    FINALLY the Ramsey LIES will be exposed. Not completely but it is a beginning.

    Great News. James Kolar and Beth Karas will both be on my show Sunday 8 PM Eastern.



  4. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    So, I got a friend of mine who lives Charlevoix to find out what John Ramsey was doing today. Here's the short video he sent back:

  5. cynic

    cynic Member

    Coming out of the woodwork

    Look what the cat dragged in... :wood:

    An attorney representing John Ramsey, L. Lin Wood, said he was confident that no evidence in the grand jury case implicated the Ramsey family :hypno: and the public should be able to see that for themselves.
    “Anything less than the release of all of the proceedings is a gross injustice to the Ramsey family,†he said.

  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    So...Woody is saying that the Grand Jury saw nothing to implicate the Ramseys in the molestation or death of JonBenet, but they decided to indict because...?

    Woody is starting to make about as much sense as a rabid bat...you know...bat chit crazy.

    Attached Files:

  7. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Your breakdown of the desperate letter Haddon sent to Garnett on behalf of JR is brilliant. Thanks so much for doing the leg work for us.

    You skewered them. I can't even believe Haddon would sign such a mess. Clearly some rookie law school intern or senile paralegal was given that assignment.


    Please post it here so we can have it, too. Pleasepleaseplease....:talk:
  8. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!

    I was SOOOO hoping IT would slither in!!! :snake: Not sure why though...thinking it has something to do with the Revelations of his Less Than HONEST Wicked Ways though...

  9. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    And Yes, WBS Rocks, Whatever ~ HOWEVERRRRRRRR ~ As THE JBR Forum of Record, feel free to do like I am utilize your time better by refreshing your vast knowledge as it's ~ SHOWTIME!

    The Rat Has Spoken ~ Nuff Said ~ :angeldev:
  10. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    This is going to be the Longest Day EVER ~ Fingers crossed tight for at 12:01 AM press release!!!

  11. ACandyRose

    ACandyRose Super Moderator

    Somebody please tell me I didn't die and that this is all just a dream?

    OMG, OMG, OMG !!
  12. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

  13. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    From ACR's link above

    "Lin Wood, the current attorney for John and Patsy Ramsey, has included each member of the grand jury as a potential witness in the Ramseys' civil lawsuit against former Boulder police Detective Steve Thomas.

    "There are a number of very interesting legal issues regarding the grand jurors," Wood said. "Needless to say, I intend to fully explore these issues in an effort to establish publicly the truth that the grand jury voted and voted against an indictment." :snake::snake::snake::snake::snake:

    2001-05-19: Boulder Daily Camera: Attorney: Ramsey jury voted

    Attorney: Ramsey jury voted
    By Christopher Anderson
    Camera Staff Writer
  14. heymom

    heymom Member

  15. heymom

    heymom Member

    Excellent comment on the Daily Camera article, KK! Way beyond the usual level of discourse on that liberal rag's comment section.
  16. otg

    otg Member


    I’ll gladly post it here for you (and for everyone else here who is just passing time until the True Bill of Indictment gets released). BTW, the last time I did this, the explanatory note I posted got deleted for some reason I still don’t understand. In it I said (and will restate here for the record) that you have my everlasting permission to copy anything I write if you feel it will help the effort to get the truth out. I also pointed out for anyone else who might want to copy from one forum to the other that if you copy from FFJ to WS, all the formatting goes with it. But if you copy from WS to FFJ, for some reason, you lose all the formatting and have to redo all the fonts and links. Anyway, I’ll be glad to bring it here, even though it was written before we knew Judge Lowenbach’s decision. (I mean, what else have we got to do to pass the time?)

    (And yes, kk, we do miss you at WS. I hope you’ll consider coming back when you feel like it.)
  17. Tez

    Tez Member

  18. otg

    otg Member

    NOTE: I started this post before the news about the judge releasing the information on Friday. I’m going to go ahead and post it because I think it explains why Haddon and Morgan got involved (and too, because I spent so much damn time on it):

    Well, looks like John has called out the cavalry, the big guns, the heavy hitters, the lawyers with a big pile of political chits who can make backroom deals and make things happen that leaves everyone else scratching their heads wondering what just happened. Looks like John thinks this is becoming a little more than just “more dramaâ€. Looks like in a situation like this he doesn’t want to depend on that bottom-feeder Lin Wood. So what brought about this sudden panic? It wasn’t James Kolar’s book. It wasn’t the lawsuit Charlie Brennan filed. And it wasn’t even Judge Lowenbach’s order for Garnett to “show cause†as to why the GJ’s only “official action†be released to the public -- even though that is what is stated in the letter.
    The “show cause†order came on Thursday, October 17. The next day, Friday the 18th is when Garnett announced that he would not fight the judge’s order and simply turn it over for him to decide. I think that is what sent RST into full defense mode. Finally, it actually looked like the indictment might be actually unsealed and released to the public because of what the judge had already said about his desire for “transparencyâ€. RST’s last hope had been for the DA to continue putting up a fight to keep it “secretâ€. That allowed them to keep propagating the myth that the GJ had not indicted them.

    Haddon’s letter is dated October 20, 2013 (a Sunday, if no one noticed). What kind of a panic must be raging through the Ramsey camp that would get a high-priced lawyer to work on a Sunday? (OT: Do lawyers get paid double-time or time-and-a-half for weekend work?)

    (BTW, just to point out now that everyone who reads this knows the DA’s email address, as well as the format for anyone else who works for the County of Boulder.)

    “Formally exonerated?†As opposed to an informal exoneration? :floor: Haddon knows better than that. He knows the legal definition of the word exonerate, and he knows the perception of the word in the mind of the public. Most people think exonerated is the equivalent of the word acquitted. And the RST has constantly reminded anyone who would listen that they were “exonerated†by the DA. Even Mary Lacy never used the word “exonerated†in her bogus “letter of absolutionâ€. While we laypeople may not fully understand the implications of the word, an attorney knows exactly what it means. From http://definitions.uslegal.com/e/exoneration/:
    Exoneration refers to a court order that discharges a person from liability. In criminal context the term exonerate refers to a state where a person convicted of a crime is later proved to be innocent.​
    But this doesn’t stop Haddon from incorrectly using term in a letter to another lawyer. So I think here he is using it knowing this letter will be made public and hoping it will continue to mislead the public who reads it.
    Judge Lowenbach is not hearing the case against the Ramseys. He is not looking at evidence that the GJ had, nor any evidence that may have been developed after the GJ was dismissed. This is a simple case of whether or not to release to the public information on an “official action†taken by a body of people commissioned by the state. It was public money that paid for the GJ -- the public is owed an explanation as to what was done with their tax money.
    The “constitutional right†he is referring to (and cites) here says the following:

    Any person who is a victim of a criminal act, or such person's designee, legal guardian, or surviving immediate family members if such person is deceased, shall have the right to be heard when relevant, informed, and present at all critical stages of the criminal justice process. All terminology, including the term "critical stages", shall be defined by the general assembly.​

    So here, Haddon is claiming this action is a “critical stage†in the “criminal justice processâ€. But the reason for this “right†being added to the Colorado Constitution is given as follows:
    THE RIGHT OF A VICTIM'S SURVIVING IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER TO BE PRESENT AT ALL CRITICAL STAGES OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE PROCESS TAKES PRECEDENCE OVER A PARTY'S RIGHT TO SEQUESTER WITNESSES UNDER C.R.E. 615. The father of a murder victim who testified in the defendant's trial was wrongly excluded from subsequent portions of the trial. People v. Coney, 98 P.3d 930 (Colo. App. 2004).​

    If you’ve ever noticed in a trial, a potential witness is not allowed to hear testimony prior to his own. This is to prevent him from changing his testimony based on what transpires in the proceedings. But this rule is superseded by the above rule for a victim’s immediate family member in a criminal proceeding. This hearing presided over by Judge Lowenbach is not a criminal proceeding.
    Haddon et al are taking a big gamble here. It seems they are trying to tie the release of the indictment to the evidence presented to the GJ by pleading for “fairness†in the information made available. But the DA, as custodian of the records of GJ proceedings, did not want to release any information despite the requirement by law of release of “official actions†of the GJ once the indictment was known to exist. The judge cannot order him to release the GJ proceedings. That means that any witness testimony or evidence the prosecutors presented to the GJ will not be released. Haddon would love to have that information, because it would tell them exactly what evidence they had against the Ramseys. But Haddon knows that information is never shared with a suspect until they are actually charged with a crime. Then it is part of the information that has to be turned over to the defendant’s side so they can prepare a defense.

    But Haddon does not really want that information disclosed to the public, despite his having stated it in his letter. He knows it will not (cannot) be released. He is simply trying to tie it to the indictment from a sense of “fairness†and “transparency†so that the judge might decide not to release any of it. This won’t happen. This is absolutely essential to the reason for secrecy in the GJ proceedings.
    I was skeptical at first that the GJ’s True Bill of Indictment would actually be released. But I have to admit that I see a lot more hope now for it to happen -- especially after reading this letter from Haddon. It shows me they are actually scared that it might be released to the public. Thank you, Charlie Brennan and Mimi Wesson.
  19. otg

    otg Member

    BTW, I've just gotta say...

    It sure is nice to see all these posters who've been absent for so long coming out now. Posters who, whether they know it or not, are legends to the people who read here constantly but never post. I know how easy it is to get discouraged and give up after all we've seen happen over the many years. And while this latest action won't bring about any resolution to all the questions we still have, at least maybe now the RST will be exposed to the public for the deceitful, disingenuous, dishonest, duplicitous, deceptive, devious liars we know them to be (Okay, I could have gone on, but I thought I would limit myself only to adjectives that begin with a "d".).
  20. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    THANKS SO MUCH, otg, for posting that letter here, along with your explanations! It is very much appreciated! YOU are very much appreciated here at FFJ!

    I want to thank EVERY member of the FFJ forum, who has been with us in the trenches all these years, for keeping the flame of truth alive in the Ramsey case. I especially want to thank Tricia for providing a place for THE TRUTH.
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