Madeleine McCann

Discussion in 'Madeleine McCann' started by Jayelles, May 11, 2007.

  1. Catherine

    Catherine Member

    but they their own admission, every night of their vacation.


    Justice for Madeleine
  2. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Define abandon! I think you have to leave for more that 24-72 hours to have it considered abandonment, by the letter or the spirit of the law.
  3. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Again, I don't agree with leaving kids alone, but to say they abandoned them is not only harsh - it's erroneous. Parents who abandon their children do not go to check on them every half hour or so. The McCanns could have left their kids at home with a baby sitter or relative while they went alone on their vacation. Maybe they should have, considering what happened, but it is commendable to me that they took their children on vacation with them. It appears they were with the children during the day and didn't go out to eat until they were asleep at night. Why on earth they didn't hire a sitter for their kids, I'll never understand. Apparently they believed the children to be safe. IMO, they are guilty of stupidity and careless behavior, but they are not guilty of abandonment.
  4. Little

    Little Member

    Clint Van Zandt - Hope running dim for Maddie McCann

    Read entire arcticle here - Source:
  5. Catherine

    Catherine Member

    My bad....I didn't realize we were talking about abandonment as a LAW. I was using the term "abandon" as one of the dictionary's examples:

    abandon suggests that the thing or person left may be helpless without protection <abandoned children>.

    3 children under the age of 4 are helpless without protection when left by their parents alone, in an unlocked apartment, night after night, so they could hang out with their friends.
  6. Catherine

    Catherine Member

    Many things could occur in a "half hour or so" when children are left to fend for themselves: a child could choke, a child could wander out of the apartment, a child could be abducted, a child could find a knife in the kitchen, a child could ingest something that was dangerous...and so on.

    They left their children in the resort's creche during the day...why couldn't they just leave them there during the creche's night hours? Instead they left them alone, in a foreign country, while they went out with their friends every night.

    abandon suggests that the thing or person left may be helpless without protection <abandoned children>.

    edited for spelling error
  7. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    I Can't argue with this post! But then again, I really don't want to argue with anybody!
  8. Catherine

    Catherine Member

    I'm sorry...I didn't mean to sound argumentative. I've been reading the Houston Chronicle's "Baby Grace"/Riley Sawyers stories and comments. I am sickened and saddened.

    Children are so innoncent and JonBenet, and I know that's why we all ended up here in the first place. Sorry if I offended.

  9. LurkerXIV

    LurkerXIV Moderator


    Catherine, you didn't offend me, since I agree with you wholeheartedly that the McCanns abandoned their precious little ones every evening so they could be free to have their fun.

    If they were a poor family living in the Council Flats, they would have been charged with neglect at the very least.

    I agree there are many similarities to the JBR case. We are witnessing "Rich Justice" -- British style.

    BTW, are you the old Catherine from way back on Dan's forum?
  10. Catherine

    Catherine Member

    No, I'm not. I generally lurk until I really have something to say.
  11. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Abandon, of which I was addressing means: leave completely and finally; forsake utterly; desert: to abandon one's farm; to abandon a child; to abandon a sinking ship.

    Different dictionary - different definition.

    So that is my frame of reference. I feel they left their children unsupervised, not abandoned. They will also have to live with what they did for the rest of their lives. Doesn't make me feel any less sorry for them or their loss!
  12. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    I was agreeing with you! And I see where Moab is coming from too, so technically, I have become one of those fence-sitters I heard tales of!
  13. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Alone is Alone.

    Semantics..........ugh. Anyhows, all I know is that Madeleine's odds of becoming a victim were totally up to her parents that night and now here we are all......

    I miss Patsy.

  14. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    I would expect that comment from BobC :mears:
  15. LurkerXIV

    LurkerXIV Moderator


    You? A fencesitter??

    Watch out for those splinters!

    (I miss Patsy, too. She was more entertaining than anorectic Kate McCann.)
  16. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Technically, "abandonment" is defined as Moab defined it, and that was exactly my point. Nowhere have I ever said I thought it was okay for the McCanns to leave their children alone - not for one minute, not for 1/2 hour; in fact, I've said just the opposite.

    There are laws in our country regarding this issue - you leave your kids alone for 1/2 hour here, you could be arrested for child neglect and end up having your kids taken away from you (for damn good reason), at least for awhile, costing thousands of dollars to get them back. Apparently, those laws don't exist in some other countries, but why are some parents so brain dead on this issue? Doesn't it seem that the natural instinct of a protective parent would be not to let their child out of their sight or the sight of another competent, completely trusted adult? Leave children alone in their beds while the parents go out to eat? Unheard of in my world.

    But, it's still not abandonment in the legal sense of the word. Extreme neglect and utter stupidity, yes; abandonment, no.
  17. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    WITHOUT the KIDNAPPER, no one would be here.

    I do NOT blame the victim for WHAT THE KIDNAPPER DID.

    Madeline would be fine today, if the McCanns hadn't gone to that hotel, or taken that vacation, or drank wine, or whatever....

    But the BLAME for what has befallen Madeline belongs to THE PERSON WHO TOOK HER. That's MY opinion.
  18. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    I'm not blaming anybody......just questioning their judgment since they are persons of interest. I, for one, still need a whole lot more information before I take anyone of my list of suspects since I have no clue what happened while these babies were supposed to be alone!
  19. Little

    Little Member

    In a perfect world none of this would be a worry to parents. Unfortunately, well, you know the answer to that scenario.

    I do not believe that Madeleine's parents thought that anything was going to happen that night that hadn't happened the other 5? 6? nights they had the same routine. I do think I read where one couple had a baby monitor with them and did wonder why all of these parents didn't have one with them too. It couldn't be due to financial problems, they were all very successful people. This is a relatively simple way to hear what's going on in a room you are not near.

    Be that as it may, it's irrelevant now. They did leave their children unattended for approximately 1/2 hour intervals. Madeleine is missing. The mother in me is thinking about all the things that can happen when children are left to their own devices. I know that they thought they were sound asleep and that they were not in any jeopardy. The point is, they were in jeopardy because some sleazy person took the opportunity to take Madeleine from her room, probably knowing that they had x amount of time before the next adult checked in on her. They possibly knew this because they had observed the pattern of the adults the past few days. That's what predators do - they watch and wait.

    There is only one person guilty of the kidnapping of Madeleine - the person who took her from her bed. That doesn't mean her parents are terrible people. It just means that a predator took the opportunity it was provided. If it was focused in on Madeleine then it would have continued to watch and wait for some other opportunity whether it was that night or at another time.

    It's not right, but tragically this is was what happened. I don't believe for one second that it ever entered their mind that anything like this could happen, but again, that's irrelevant now. It did happen. I'm sure they will all play this over and over and over again in their minds and wish they had the opportunity to do things differently.

    I so hope they have a second chance. I can't even begin to imagine the anguish they are feeling. I hope I never do know.

  20. Little

    Little Member

    Mobile Phones Could Be Vital Madeleine McCann Investigation

    read entire article here - Source:
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