Patsy Ramsey

"Emotionally delicate?" hahaha How Southern Belle of her. Is that a nice way of saying SHE HAD A TEMPER?

At my house, my grandmother called it HIGH STRUNG. hehehe

If this is the correct interpretation, seems you're right, Paradox. Polly didn't take it lying down. So to speak.

 

Maybe it means that Polly would cry when Nedra would insult her, ignore her, or even abuse her. It sure sounds as if Polly's reactions are being dismissed - "Oh, that Polly, she's so emOtional!"

Maybe Polly was more of a HANDFUL than Patsy or Pam were.

 

OK, here are a couple of references to the movie Ransom in the fictional Ramsey book, DOI:

p.364

p.367

 

Patsy was JonBenet's user. If there was prior vaginal abuse, it was Patsy, IMO. That doesn't mean it had anything to do with sexual gratification though. Patsy saw JonBenet as an object. Patsy projected herself onto the object and then did things to the object in order to participate in a private fantasy about herself. Patsy took JB to the doctor for problems in that area. My guess is Patsy was transfering latent genital awareness to JB.

 

John said he 'saw' the movie while on an airplane.
Did Patsy ever mention seeing the movie?
IMO someone in the family saw the movie, possibly more than once. Things are just too coincidental.

 

I'm thinking Polly was probably a far nicer person than Patsy Ramsey could ever be, heymom. Patsy was the daughter who had the heart of steel, which is actually needed for "walking the boards in the beauty contests." Let's face it, how many of us could walk out on the runway of these beauty pageants wearing a bathing suit, facing thousands of people staring at them, with the judges looking at every inch of their body? We have all seen Patsy doing it. This takes great courage, doesn't it?"

As a younger woman, many years ago, weighing in at 112lbs. when married, it took me all my time to walk into an outdoor swimming pool. I just can't imagine walking the boards of a beauty pageant. Terrifying. However, there are certain women cut out for this type of deal, and Patsy Ramsey was one of them, because she had been whiplashed by Nedra all her young life, and young Polly Paugh wasn't enthralled by any of it.

Nedra was one tough cookie, that's for sure! Just looking at Judith Phillip's wonderful "Salute" photograph speaks a thousand words, doesn't it? Nedra's face tells me a great deal, even although it was a whimsical situation. To me this was one hard core woman who did not like to be crossed.

 

I agree that Patsy could have been the abuser. In my own terms, I would say that Patsy could have been taking out her anger on JonBenet, using her as a scapegoat for the problems in the family, or between Patsy and John. I agree that it probably would not have been sexual, but more vengeful in nature. Perhaps anger about her own cancer, using JonBenet again as an object, a way to externalize her anger and grief and act out her own emotions about her feminine parts. She does still seem to me to have been molested herself, especially if she was JonBenet's abuser. If we ever found out that it was Patsy who molested JonBenet, it would be almost certain that she herself had been abused.

I believe it is more likely that John was abusing JonBenet, but there is adequate reason to think that either of them could have molested her.

 

But even if Patsy projected herself onto the object (JB), seeking sexual gratification on her part via doing this may very well have played a role.

What exactly do you mean by "latent genital awareness"?

 

I guess it might be called courage. She didn't seem terrified by the attention or by posing. I think it might be that she never developed enough of a true self with which to deny her mother's ambitions. Maybe she was moldable and passive enough for Nedra to control her more fully than her sisters. Maybe she was the scapegoat and got all the abuse (this is not uncommon in molester's families). We'll just never know, will we???

 

In this scenario; Patsy did not develop an interest in her genitals beyond the elimination function. She had no interest in autoerotic stimulation. Sexual attraction to the opposite sex and sexual role playing did not stimulate arousal or she did not respond to her arousal. She was physically sexually inert. Intellectually she knew about sex, but she had not experienced it instinctively. She was not naive or even repressed, but rather she missed a stage of development due to an identity based on outer reality.

It is possible for a person to carry what usually happens in pre-teen years well into later life where circumstances can stimulate a latent awareness. Instead of acting out on herself she compulsively acted out on JonBenet. This still could have gone on without stimulating arousal, thus there was no goal, no climax to be achieved. The process was aborted, it stopped at the touching stage.

The trips to the doctor could have been a displaced attempt at exposing her problems, again by proxy.

 

But by abusing JB sexually, maybe Patsy reenacted her own childhood experience? Many sexual abusers have been the victims of abuse themselves, and they later repeat the tragic cycle.
We know very little about Patsy's father. I'm not sure if I remember it correctly or where I read it, but didn't Patsy get very upset in an interview when asked if she and her sisters had ever been sexually abused?

 

jameson has some questions for you

http://www.webbsleuths.org/dcforum/DCForumID79/19.html

 

Thanks for ruining my dinner J.

I should have been more clear. I was making a proposal, not saying this was definitely Patsy's condition. This subject is covered in psychology texts and is part of ... you guessed it! TPOMJB;

"There's not much time for sex research in the Senior school," Sandy said.

"I feel I'm past it," said Jenny. This was strangely true, and she did not again experience her early sense of erotic wonder in life until suddenly one day when she was nearly forty.

 

I think you made yourself clear Paradox, to anyone with more than one brain cell. :curtsey:

 

Thanks Amber.

It's called sexual arousal disorder, SAD.

:uthere: one cell?

 

In the book, it was Sandy who said Miss Jean Brodie stopped sleeping with Mr. Lowther because her sexual feelings were satisfied by proxy.

 

Tylin, John said he saw the movie Speed on an airplane, without earphones, so he didn't "hear" the dialogue...a typical Ramsey dodge to distance himself from the "Don't try to grow a brain" reference in the ransom note.

But I honestly have never heard anyone else or the Ramseys mention seeing Ransom, unless you infer that JAR saw it because he told Steve Thomas (I think it was Thomas) the family in that movie was exactly like the Ramsey family.

 

KK,
Thanks...I swear maybe someday I will get my facts straight about this case.
I was mistaken about which movie John saw on the plane.
And I did assume that JAR saw the movie sense he mentioned it to ST.

 

I agree with you.
I think it is more likely that Patsy was the abuser than John.

 

Careful sue, one cell is watching.