Patsy's last artwork~

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Aurora, Aug 4, 2007.

  1. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    The mention of the Harlequin outfit in "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie" is very interesting. Thanks, Cranberry.
  2. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    And as a girl Muriel Spark was a Francophile and an angelologist.
  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

  4. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    And the last like mother like daughter picture should be of the two headstones.
  5. heymom

    heymom Member

    Here's a VERY interesting statement on that page..

    We also know now what the authorities knew then. John Ramsey attempted to fly Patsy, Burke and himself to Atlanta within 45 minutes of discovering his daughter's body. He stated later that the trip was to protect his family. This is in conflict with allowing Burke to leave the house with friends while he and Patsy remained with the police. I submit that someone in Atlanta had information that he did not want revealed to the police. He would attempt to conduct his own interrogation first. When that didn't work, he immediately retained attorneys for the Atlanta family members.

    So she thinks that John was going to appear in Atlanta to family members to hush them up before the LE got to them...very interesting...Something I had not thought of. I will have to ponder that some more. Any comments?
  6. heymom

    heymom Member

    This answer is revealing:

    RAMSEY, J: I don't know. I mean, there is a -- a note that said --your daughter has been kidnapped. We have your daughter. We want money. You give us the money; she'll be safely returned.

    RAMSEY, P: It seemed like kidnapping to me.

    If THAT really HAD BEEN what the note said, it wouldn't have been so damning of Patsy! By this time, she knows what she SHOULD HAVE written, but the Ransom Novel was too long.

    (Of coure, note or not, once JonBenet's body was found IN THE HOUSE, it was a different case completely. There had been no kidnapping and there was no intruder.)
  7. heymom

    heymom Member

    Here is another quote from that page, but I don't know who wrote this, as there is no citation along with it:

    Over and over again I saw JonBenet shift her weight from hip to hip as she walked within the gaze of the pageant judges. I watched her cast her head back over she shoulder to flash one last smile as she left the stage. I watched her turn as she removed a cape or jacket. These weren't the movements of any first grader that I'd ever seen. Who transferred their idea of adult sexuality to the body and soul of this child?

    Does anyone know? This is one of the things that points toward JR or another member of the family in the molestation and later cover-up of her death.
  8. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    What you quoted, heymom, were Ruth's/Panico's words. That page is from a large site she created about the murder. She was one of the early posters on the net following the case. I wasn't around then, but she was greatly respected by the JB Internet community, except for jams and the RST, as you can imagine. She died not that long after I came online, and she had been sick for a while, I gather, so I never really saw her forum postings that much. But her JB site pages are still very insightful to this day. One caveat: she claimed to be psychic, I think, so that's often used to denigrate her by the usual suspects. From what I see, she was very perceptive and intuitive.

    Reading this interview transcript again, lots of things jump out. But knowing THE REST OF THE STORY now, it occurs to me THE BIG PICTURE is that the Ramseys were doing this first TV interview for one reason and one reason only: to set up their public defense now that the case had gone national on a level no one could have predicted. John is already stating they are hiring "the best" investigators, to HELP LE, blahblahblah. NOW we know that the Ramsey powerhouse law team HAD hired investigators as early as the day after the murder, and they were on the street locking witnesses into statements with affadavits before the BPD could even get there, HAMPERING LE's investigation from DAY ONE. White said he was called in and told to back off, more or less, by one of the lawyers, maybe Bynum, can't remember exactly. That was THE DAY AFTER the murder. I think this is when White realized that the Ramseys were not on the up and up, and the split between the Ramseys and the Whites began.

    Here are some statements the Ramseys made on TV that fateful Jan. 1, 1997, that illustrate the INTENT of that interview:

    The interviewer said this at the end, and obviously the Ramseys lied to HIM, as we all know they had no intention of talking with LE and telling them "anything they wanted to know". They didn't approach THAT threshold for a year and a half, as the interview they did 4 months later was set with limitations of time AND topic, plus they had the evidence results from the investigation by then in hand and knew what to say and what to evade:

    And look at how Patsy is already DISTANCING herself from this, THE DAY AFTER SHE'S BURIED HER DAUGHTER:

    RAMSEY, P: I don't know who it is. I don't know if it's a he or a she. But if I were a resident of Boulder, I would tell my friends to keep -- keep your babies close to you, there's someone out there.

    IF she were a resident of Boulder? She WAS a resident of Boulder! Except, she knew the plan was to get out of Boulder as fast as possible, so she'd already set in her mind that she didn't live there anymore, IMO. They ran from the house, they wanted to FLY away within minutes of "finding" their child dead in their home. When they found they were compelled to go back and stay there for at least a while, did they rent an apt.? Set up another home to stay as long as needed by LE and determined to "find the killer"? Did they have their family come and stay to take care of Patsy and Burke in a place of their own where they could feel comfortable? Hire security, which they CERTAINLY could afford? No. They obtained TEMPORARY LIVING CONDITIONS, not requiring any commitment to any property or lease. They had NO PROFESSIONAL SECURITY, even though a FOREIGN FACTION, OR AT LEAST A CHILD KILLER WAS AFTER THEM. They hid behind FIRST Pasta Jay--a restaurant owner and business partner, who was so equipped to "protect" them he went after strangers with a baseball bat; then they went to their pit bull Stine at the Stine home--where the Stines themselves and THEIR CHILD could have been in danger from the killer--NO BODY GUARDS, even with media strangers knocking on the door and going through the garbage. Guess nobody was too worried about that intruder who was "out there", in spite of Patsy TRYING to act like she was when LE picked up on that--Lin Wood wouldn't even let LE question her on that in Atlanta in 2000, it was so damning on its face. (Note: Patsy ran to the BPD immediately after Patsy Jay was arrested for assaulting the businessmen with the bat when he mistook them for media, BTW. Not so for her own daughter's murder: she never set foot in the BPD until the day she died for THAT.)

    And again, Patsy DIRECTS the focus of the interview to how THEY can be trusted, which shows just how alert she was in spite of her drugged condition, and look what she does: she begins the decade long spin for the RST's BIGGEST talking point--they are too pious and good and love their children too much to have committed this crime. Trust them, America, in spite of all that has happened and all that will come. They're as American as apple pie and as solid as American capitalism.

    But not Christian enough to trust the Lord and go in for the LE questions that NEED TO BE ASKED AND ANSWERED to find the murderer of their child, after all, to keep that child killer away from other children and families. They don't love their murdered daughter THAT much, and they won't do THAT "anything for our children". Unless they're protecting a living child and sacrificing JonBenet for hiim.
  9. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I believe in PMPT, Schiller quoted JonBenet's dance teacher as saying SHE didn't teach JonBenet those suggestive moves. The teacher said Patsy would stay for the dance lesson and coaching and do the moves with JonBenet. PASTY TAUGHT JONBENET THOSE MOVES. You can see it in the pictures of Patsy herself in her pageant costumes. The same "open mouth" affectation is mimicked by JonBenet in pictures, as well.

    It does give one pause when you think about " The Prime...Brody" storyline, wherein the teacher consciously choses one of her minor-aged students to be the artist's lover, to maintain some control over the artist's affections when she can't allow her self-image to be tarnished by her own love and desire for him, because he's married. But the actual student who does become his lover is another, Sandy, not the one chosen by Miss Brody--an act of defiance by Sandy, who becomes bitter when she realizes she can't replace and best Brody in the artist's own heart, only stand-in for her. Sandy finally constructs the demise of Miss Brody, to stop Brody's sociopathic abuse of power over the students. Miss Brody sees herself in a carefully structured image which she uses her students to reinforce, and when that is challenged, she simply shifts to another mask, one of the suffering martyr. Sandy tries to shatter than one, as well, telling Brody the truth about being the artist's lover, accusing Brody of misguiding a student to her death with uninformed ideas and unrelenting ideals. Miss Brody dramatically counters, calling Sandy an assassin. Betrayed by one of her very own "girls".

    So, I have trouble figuring out to which one of these characters Patsy related. I need to get a copy of the play and find the monologue. I've read the online transcript of the movie, seen the movie, and read the play many years ago, but I can't quite figure out the monologue Patsy used. Do those of you who know this well know the monologue?

    Did Patsy feel her own mother, Nedra, was like the controlling Brody? Did Patsy have an illicit "lover" Patsy felt her mother sanctioned in some way? I believe that is possible and that could be the secret that led to the tragedy of epic proportions in this case. Did Patsy find herself becoming her mother/Brody when she became so controlling with the strict regiment for the pageant competition, with JonBenet becoming her "girl"? And who would have then been the illicit lover, the one who couldn't have Patsy so took the surrogate, the one molesting JonBenet? Was JonBenet becoming the "assassin" threatening to tell?

    Of course, I could be completely wrong, and we'll never know the truth, but there was something terrible going on in that family to lead to such violence, wasn't there? So speculation is all we have to figure out who that killer "out there" is/was.
  10. heymom

    heymom Member

    As if Patsy was training JonBenet to be so sexualized, and yet hated her for it. Maybe took her anger out on JonBenet that night instead of dealing with the real source of the rage, the male who was molesting JonBenet. I think JR is the most likely candidate, but there are other suspects I will admit. Burke is one, JAR is another, even Patsy's father, although I don't think he had the kind of access to JonBenet that would have made this likely.

    I thought it was very telling when Patsy or John said during the CNN interview that theirs was a "gentle family." Oh, really....
  11. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    I think the key to understanding the role of TPOMJB in Patsy's psyche is to reduce things to narcissism. Brodie was a narcissist, Nedra was a narcissist, Patsy acted narcissistically. Sandy ostensibly acted against Brodie to stop her unhealthy influence on girls. And thus, Sandy acted to free herself from Brodie's influence, by proxy.

    Patsy needed to "save" herself from her own narcissism which was ingrained into her by Nedra. Patsy could not solve this inner conflict so she projected it onto the object JonBenet and tried to manipulate the object. The object suffered the punishment for sin and the exaltation after judgement. Thus the dual characteristic of the treatment of the body.

    Patsy identified with each of the Brodie set members. But more importantly, she identified with the process of revelation, discernment of Good and Evil, punishment of sin and seeking of salvation. It was Sandy that went through these things. Brodie was the sacrifice.

    Patsy could not free herself from her own narcissism. So she constructed a fantasy in her mind and used an object in the real world as a stand in for her in an effort to make the fantasy real.
  12. Cranberry

    Cranberry Member

    Hi KK, The painter Gauguin was mentioned in the book as a favorite by Miss Brodie's. When I looked him up I saw that he uses color as a language in his paintings. In this painting he speaks of generational endings and beginnings, the shadows and temptations, and asks questions that we don't want to hear the answers to. Which I related to the book and also the murder of JonBenet.
  13. tylin

    tylin Banned

    Here's my 2 cents worth that's worth about a penny.....When Patsy made the statement about being a resident of Boulder, I understood that to mean that she was advising the other Boulder residents to keep their children close. I didn't take that as her saying she wasn't a Boulder resident.

  14. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    On sale for the first time: Van Gogh's final masterpiece
    By Arifa Akbar, Arts Correspondent
    Published: 22 September 2007

    A Van Gogh masterpiece believed to be the artist's final piece of work is to be put on the public market for the first time, where it is expected to become one of the most highly-valued paintings ever auctioned.

    The Fields (Wheat Fields) was completed on 10 July 1890, just 19 days before Vincent Van Gogh died. It hung in his room as he bled to death in his bed, where he had staggered after shooting himself in a field.

    The work, only previously seen once in Britain, is one of just a few of Van Gogh's greatest works to remain in private hands and is celebrated for shedding significant light on the emotions felt by the artist in the days before his death.

    The Fields will be unveiled at Sotheby's in London on 7 October and sold at auction in New York a month later with an estimated list price £17m.

    But due to its extraordinary provenance and the booming art market, it is likely to provoke one of the heaviest bidding wars in the auction house's history and greatly exceed this price. When the painting was exhibited in Amsterdam in 2001, as a privately owned work, there was an immediate, if vain, rush by buyers to place offers.

    "As a unique work of art from the final days of the artist's life, the price will most likely be driven by passion. This is perhaps the last opportunity for a collector to acquire a landscape of this quality by Vincent van Gogh," said a spokeswoman for Sotheby's. Van Gogh's brother, Theo, was so emotionally attached to the painting that he kept it in the family collection for 20 years before his widow, Johanna, finally sold it to a private collector, Paul Cassirer, in 1907.

    Since then, it has remained in private collections, exchanging hands between collectors privately but never entering the public market.

    David Norman, executive vice-president at Sotheby's, said that after Van Gogh's death, much of his work was sold to collectors but had not gone to public auction.

    There has been much debate over the years as to which was the last piece Van Gogh worked on before committing suicide. A number of respected experts, including Walter Feilchenfeldt, the Swiss collector and Van Gogh scholar, believe that The Fields was the final creative project that the tormented artist undertook.

    Many mistakenly believe Van Gogh's far more brooding painting, Wheat Field with Crows, which he also executed in the last year of his life, to be his final painting due to its gloomy overtones – which have led some to argue that it was Van Gogh's "suicide note". But although it conveys the melancholia that Van Gogh was feeling in his final weeks, there is evidence to suggest it was painted earlier. And in a letter written by Van Gogh to Theo on the 10 July, the artist described having just painted what experts believe to be The Fields, along with two other works.

    He wrote: "They are vast fields of wheat under troubled skies, and I did not need to go out of my way to try to express sadness and extreme loneliness. I hope you see them soon – for I hope to bring them to see you in Paris as soon as possible, since I almost think that these canvases will tell you what I cannot say in words, the health and restorative forces that I see in the country," he said.

    If it was the final work, The Fields illustrates how Van Gogh was able to separate his deep inner turmoil and stormy emotions from the hope and celebration of life that is instilled in this painting, said Mr Norman.

    "Here is an artist literally on the verge of taking his life and filled with tremendous despondency, yet he is still painting with lemon yellows, azure blues and emerald greens.

    "We know this is a man barely holding on to his will to live yet he is able to separate his energy and focus on what he sees before him," he added.

    The Fields belongs to a celebrated series of canvases painted in early July 1890, in which the sprawling golden wheat field of Auvers-sur-Oise became the central subject that captured his imagination during his final weeks.

    Living alone in the Ravoux Inn in Auvers, he would set up his easel and paint in solitude for hours. Loaned to various collections over the years; The Fields hung in the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam for six years alongside a series of moving landscapes painted in the final year of the artist's life. It was displayed in Britain for the first and only time in 1995 at a Royal Academy show.

    Van Gogh had no formal artistic training and he did not embark on a career as a painter until 1880, spending his early life working for a firm of art dealers, and after a brief spell as a teacher, he became a missionary worker. Most of his best-known works were produced in the final two years of his life, during which time he cut off part of his left ear following a breakdown in his friendship with the artist, Paul Gauguin. After this he suffered recurrent bouts of mental illness, which led to his suicide.

    On 8 May 1889 Van Gogh committed himself to the mental hospital in a former monastery in Saint Rémy de Provence, near Arles.

    On 27 July, at the age of 37, he walked into the fields and shot himself in the chest with a revolver and staggered back to the inn at Auvers, not realising he had fatally wounded himself.

    He died in his bed two days later, with Theo by his side, who is said to have reported his last words to be "La tristesse durera toujours" ("the sadness will last forever").
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