Ramsey house at 755 (previously 749) 15th Street

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by JustinCase, May 18, 2004.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Get out of here! :eek:

    CARS of people?

    Sounds like a white trash mecca to me! :fight: :gum: :tipsy: :cool2: :eat:
  2. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    I will deny to my dying day that I was in a van of hot rockin' FFJ chicks taking pictures outside the Ramsey house. No Way. Wasn't me.
  3. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Ummm ... specifically, the college kid said there was ONE van load he'll never forget because of a blonde babe named Tricia who seemed to be their leader. At least, she was the one in charge of the gallon jug of Wild Turkey. :D
  4. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Maybe THAT's why I saw Lou Smit........and if you want to get down to the nitty gritty - that young man was far easier on the eye than that gawdyass house. If you ever go, please do not miss the back alley, Fernie had to have lost those Superman vision eyeglasses somewhere there......

    The Blonde Beatch Down the Road
  5. AMES

    AMES Member

    Ramsey House Back On The Market...

    Credit goes to IrishMist, at WBS, for posting this.


    JonBenet Ramsey house back on market for $2.68M
    By Alicia Wallace (Contact)
    Wednesday, July 2, 2008

    Photo by Paul Aiken

    The former Ramsey home on 15th Street in the University Hill area of Boulder is back on the market.
    Ramsey house timeline
    November 1991 — John and Patsy Ramsey buy the house at 755 15th St. for $500,000.

    Dec. 26, 1996 — JonBenet Ramsey is found dead in the basement of the home. Her family never spends another night there.

    February 1998 — A group of investors buys the home for $650,000, pledging to resell it and donate profits to the JonBenet Ramsey Children’s Foundation.

    1999-2001 — E.J. “Doc” Kreis, the University of Colorado’s speed, strength and conditioning coach, rents the house before being fired and moving to California.

    June 2001 — The address is changed to 749 15th St.

    May 2004 — Tim and Carol Milner buy the house for $1.05 million.

    July 2008 — The house is listed for sale at $2.68 million

    Source: Camera archives

    The house where JonBenet Ramsey’s body was discovered nearly 12 years ago is back on the market.

    The 7,092-square-foot, four-story house at 749 15th St. — the former home of John and Patsy Ramsey, whose 6-year-old daughter was murdered and found in the home’s basement on Dec. 26, 1996 — recently was posted on the public listings for $2.68 million.

    The listing price is more than double its $1.05 million sale in 2004, and is comparable to or slightly more expensive than other similar-sized houses on the market in the neighborhood, according to local real estate data. During the past six months, 11 houses in the neighboring area sold at prices between $1 million and $3 million. Of those 11, two sold for more than $2.5 million.

    Thirty-seven other neighboring homes, in the $1 million to $3 million price range, are active on the market. Three homes are listed higher than the 749 15th St. asking price.

    When it comes to real estate stigmatized by past crimes and catastrophes, time sometimes can be a healer in terms of market value, said Randall Bell, an appraiser, economist and nationally known expert on damaged real estate.

    Bell, a principal of Bell Anderson & Sanders LLC, has consulted on economic damages caused by crime scenes including JonBenet Ramsey’s home, the Heaven’s Gate Mansion in Rancho Santa Fe, Calif., and the Nicole Brown Simpson condominium in Los Angeles.

    “Emotionally, it may not go away, but in terms of real estate values, it does go away,” Bell said, noting that the Beverly Hills house where actress Sharon Tate was stabbed to death in 1969 sold for its full value 20 years later.

    Generally speaking, Bell said, it takes about seven years for values and the neighboring area “to get back to normal.”

    A house with a sordid past “will bother some people, but it won’t bother others,” he added. “As time goes on, the situation gets better.”

    John and Patsy Ramsey purchased the house, then known as 755 15th St., for $500,000 in 1991, according to Boulder County assessor records. In 1998, the Ramseys sold the house for $650,000 to a group of investors, who pledged to resell it and donate profits to the JonBenet Ramsey Children’s Foundation. In 1999, E.J. “Doc” Kreis, a University of Colorado strength and conditioning coach, rented the house for two years.

    In 2004, Tim Milner and his wife, Carol Schuller Milner — the daughter of “Hour of Power” televangelist Robert A. Schuller — purchased the home for $1.05 million.

    When the Milners bought the Tudor-style home, Tim Milner told the Camera that the house’s size made it seem like a “perfect fit” for him, his wife and four children.

    A year-and-a-half later, a for-sale sign appeared in front of 749 15th St.

    At the time, Tim Milner told a reporter that the value of his home dropped when news stories or television features appeared about the JonBenet killing. Milner also complained about a continuous stream of onlookers and sight-seers who would stop and sometimes take pictures in front of the house’s gated exterior.

    The Milners, who live and work in California, could not be reached for comment for this article.

    A year later — when John Mark Karr was arrested as a suspect in the JonBenet crime — a Florida newspaper reported that the house had been pulled off the market. A 36-year-old Florida man, who reportedly signed a contract to purchase the home for $1.7 million, claimed to the paper that his deal had fallen through.

    Karr was later exonerated of the crime when his DNA did not match crime-scene evidence.

    A few days ago, the Ramsey house was back on the selling block. Listed by Colorado Landmark Realtors and its founder Joel Ripmaster — who brokered past sales of the house — 749 15th St. is touted as a “spectacular 1920s home on (a) large lot with incredible trees and landscaping in the coveted University Hill district.”

    A slide show of pictures on the property’s Web site show a handful of rooms in the spacious house: a serenely staged dining room; stainless steel appliances that sit among stark, black cabinetry; a master bedroom with vaulted ceilings and a fireplace.

    The basement, which is listed as a “Rec. Room” on the property detail, is not pictured.

    Ripmaster did not return calls seeking comment.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  6. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Hi Ames- glad to see you- you've been busy, I bet.

    I wonder of the "group of investors" (i.e. R friends and supporters) ever turned over the money they made when they sold the house to the Foundation, like they vowed to do. I bet not.

    I had read long ago that one of the subsequent owners walled up the wineceller in the basement. I wonder which one?
    I know it was the "group of imvestors" who pulled up all the carpets in the basement (hmmm) and painted all the walls white, mercifully un-doing PR's decorating.
  7. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    Extremely overpriced...especially for a house as notorious as the old Ram home! I wouldn't give a dime for it.

    Dee...I don't think the 'investors' or any charity saw any money from the home. After all John and Patsy's lame foundations never did anyone any good for anyone else but themselves...like 'donating' to the Ramseys' church program for kids...or 'donating' to the Ramseys' kids summer camp.
  8. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    The fact of the "wine cellar" having been walled up has been to me a prime indicator of how false the statement was that the substance containing the Hi-Tec logo was actual living mold, and that said Hi-Tec logo could only therefore have been made on the night of December 25th because the living mold would have grown over any older imprint. If you think about it, a room whose floor and walls are covered in mold needs to have that mold dealt with periodically, for the health of the people who live in the house. A moldy room should not be walled off, because the mold will grow through the wall anyway. On the other hand, if the room contained only concrete dust from badly-sealed concrete coming in contact with moisture from the ground, that would be not much of a problem at all, and the residents could feel free to just pretend that room did not even exist since it would have no impact on their health.
  9. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Attached Files:

  10. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Location Information
    County: Boulder Area/Sub Area: Area 1 - Sub Area 6
    Location Description: Deciduous Trees, Evergreen Trees, House Faces East, Within City Limits Subdivision: University Place

    Interior Features
    Design Features: Bay or Bow Window, Cathedral/Vaulted Ceilings, Eat-in Kitchen, Fire Alarm, Separate Dining Room, Walk-in Closet, Washer/Dryer Hookups, Wet Bar, Wood Windows, Workshop Half Baths: 3
    Has Fireplace: Yes Fireplace Description: 2+ Fireplaces, Living Room Fireplace, Master Bedroom Fireplace
    Heating Fuel: Radiant Heat Cooling: Attic Fan, Ceiling Fan, Central Air Conditioning, Evaporative Cooler, Room Air Conditioner
    Basement/Foundation: Full Basement

    Exterior Features
    Stories: Four-Level Construction: Brick/Brick Veneer
    Parking Description: Attached Has Garage: Yes
    Garage Spaces: 2 Land Size: .25-.5 Acre
    Lot Size in Acres: 0.26 Lot Size in Sq. Ft.: 11377
    Zoning: Res Outdoor Features: Balcony, Deck, Patio, Lawn Sprinkler System

    School District: BLDR VALLEY DIST RE2 Elementary School: Flatirons
    Jr. High School: Manhattan High School: Boulder

    Additional Information
    Property Type: SFR Property SubType: Residential-Detached
    Year Built: 1927 Inclusions: Bar Refrigerator, Dishwasher, Double Oven, Down-draft

    Attached Files:

  11. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    No front shot?!

    Attached Files:

  12. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    The best thing about one of the side shots is that it provides the clearest example yet of how close the Ramsey bed was to the basement grate. With John saying that he and Patsy had the windows to their bedroom open that night because it got warm in the upper reaches of the house (consistent with the claim that the basement was exceptionally warm, and how heat rises), and with the claim that Luther Stanton across the street could hear the sound of metal banging on concrete which is then attributed to the clang of the grate on the concrete surrounding it, we can all see that any noise involving the grate and the kitchen-door area in general would have been heard in the Ramsey bedroom.

    Edited to add: And look at all the options John had for entering a locked house other than breaking a window in the grate. He could have broken the small window next to the kitchen door. His stated reason that the grate window would have been cheaper to repair hardly makes sense, since he had money and that kitchen window was obviously not some expensive custom item. For that matter, any of the locks on the dining room windows must have been flimsy enough to break without destroying the windows. He could have even broken the glass in the kitchen door which was right there.

    Attached Files:

  13. Niner

    Niner Active Member

    I too was wondering if the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation got the profits from reselling of the house... I highly doubt it!! Should have been at least 400K plus that SHOULD have gone to her Foundation...

    Why_Nut - EXCELLENT point!!
    and you're so right about the kitchen window too!!
  14. heymom

    heymom Member

    What a coincidence. The Ramsey house goes back on the market, and Lacy clears the Ramsey family from any wrong-doing in the death of JonBenet. Hmmmmm....wonder if the mansion would sell easier if it was a random sexual predator or the family who moved away....

    The real estate agent and the seller must disclose that there has been a death in the house. That's law. I'll bet that scares most buyers away.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2012
  15. AMES

    AMES Member

    I didn't realize that an agent has to disclose that there has been a death in a house. Unfortunately, we have moved ALOT! And I have always been afraid of buying an existing home for that very reason. Yes, I am paranoid. So, heck...that would scare ME away, if I went to buy the Ramsey home, not knowing anything about the case, and was told that someone was murdered there. I would run as fast as I could in the other direction. :eek:
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2012
  16. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    A 5 bedroom, 8 bath house, and Patsy supposedly couldn't take a shower the morning of December 26th because hers was "broken." Did John refuse to let her shower in HIS bath? Was Patsy not allowed to go down one level and use the bathroom showers on the children's floor?

    Yeah, right.

    Oh, and I love how the realtor tries to show the side of the house as if it is the front, and even includes a photo of the nearby mountains as filler material because THEY DON'T DARE INCLUDE A PHOTO OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE as other real estate ads do.

    The fact is, the truth has never been told about what happened in that house the night JonBenet died. People can deal with tragedy, and there are those who can live in a house where there has been a death. People used to die at home all the time. The difference with the Ramsey house is that it is tainted with a lie, and most people know it.

    The Ramseys can proclaim their innocence all they want with the help of corrupt and idiotic lawyers, politicians and DAs, but it doesn't remove the uneasy feeling in the public's mind. The general concensus is that the Ramseys had something to do with JonBenet's death, and Patsy concocted the ransom note in order to keep someone from suffering the consequences.

    The Ramsey house will always have the smell of unresolved death.
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012
  17. heymom

    heymom Member

    Here is some info I just found on Material Fact disclosures...


    Federal Disclosures
    Every state has its own laws regarding disclosures, so the forms will vary depending on where you live. Download Sellers' Disclosures.

    A federal disclosure such as Lead-Based Paint is required for all transactions if the home was built before 1978. The disclosure also gives the buyer 10-days to conduct inspections for lead-based paint, unless that time period contingency is waived in writing. It's considered good practice, however, to give every buyer, regardless of where she lives and regardless of the type of property she is under contract to purchase, the disclosure regarding lead-based paint. The potential for a lawsuit is too great to do otherwise. Besides, even though it's prohibited, there are still places where lead paint is sold.

    Material Facts
    Material Facts are commonly referred to as anything that would affect the buyer's decision to purchase or the price and terms the buyer offers. In other words, if you have knowledge about a defect, it should be disclosed. In California, sellers are to notify buyers if a death has occurred on the property within the last 3 years. Some buyers are creeped out by knowledge that a seller died in the house.

    A seller once asked me if she should tell the buyer that her husband died in their bedroom five years ago. Although the law doesn't require it, because the death occurred outside of the three-year window and because the buyer did not ask about it, I suggested she disclose this to the buyers, and she did. Moreover, if she had chosen to withhold this information from the buyer, I would have had to disclose it because now I had knowledge of a material fact.

    Causes of Death
    Many home buyers are fine with news of a death occurring in the house as long as it wasn't violent or gruesome. There are also buyers who believe homes are haunted by former occupants who died in the house. If you have specific details, you might want to consider sharing it with the buyer unless it pertains to AIDS.
    Check with your local laws and a real estate lawyer for advice about deaths surrounding AIDS because in some states, AIDS falls into a protected class and could be subject to discrimination claims as well. There are times you're darned if you do and darned if you don't.

    External Disclosures
    Some states require disclosures about items that affect or could affect the property such as:

    * Earthquakes
    * Natural Hazards
    * Zoning Changes
    * Flood Zones
    * Fire Hazards
    * Noise Pollution
    * Ground Pollution
    * Air Pollution, among others.

    - And in our area - mold and flooding of the house are included.
  18. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    I think the house is the biggest hodge-podge of building materials I have ever seen at that price. The additions on the back look like they were done at two different time and in two architectural styles...and there is a reason they aren't showing the front, because it is a third style!

    As for the stairway, it loks like they removed the spiral one and put in regular stairs...they have done a lot to the inside of the house, which actually looks much better than before.
  19. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    They neglected to "show" the spiral staircase. Maybe it's too infamous.

    They also neglected to show the FRONT stairs, which were near the front door, I believe. Those were straight up.

    The stairs you see in the photo labeled "kitchen", with the black and white vinyl tiles which may be original to the Ramsey decorating, are the set going to the butler's kitchen. That's the small food prep area for caterers to use, with the side exterior door that the RST love to claim was "open" that morning. That "open door" only became part of the "story" when one of the kidnapping party guests--Fernie, I think--claimed he noticed it open and that made it into the police reports. Others besides "the intruder" could have opened it, of course, including the Ramseys. Fernie got there after the Whites and, I'm thinking, after the police, though I honestly have heard so many versions through the years I may be misrembering that. I do know Fernie testified in one of the sideshow trials he got there after the Whites.

    But the actual main kitchen isn't the one with the straight staircase, it's the one with the travertine tile and kitchen island, next to the dining room. They did a lot of remodeling in that kitchen.

    What is it with that house and wallpaper?

    The master bedroom is shown in two photos, and they're labeled, if you notice.
  20. Pearlsim

    Pearlsim FFJ Senior Member

    The inside of the house has been improved from Patsy's flamboyant, bordering on tasteless decorating and some of the outside views are lovely.

    Definitely a good tactic not to feature the well known front entrance. (Which, by the way, I thought was the back door when I first saw the house - simply because that weird little door didn't seem to match with the "mini-mansion" description of the house.)

    Some of the exterior views of the home are quite nice, but there's still that stuck-on gigantic later addition to the home. While they may have gained lots of interior square footage, the addition doesn't match with the rest of the house at all. I think it looks absolutely tacky and wretched. Too bad Poor Patsy had no taste to go along with all the millions she spent working on and adding to her mini-mansion.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice