The Grand Jury indictment of John and Patsy Ramsey

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by cynic, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Well done.
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    In case you missed one of our favorite commentators on the craziness of the Ramsey case, Alan Prendergast not only wrote the following article, he appeared on Peter Boyles' radio show and it was a brilliant hour on the case.

    Here's the article...oh, wait: I think it's now called a blog.

    As ever, Prendergast writes eloquently about the circus that is this case. He has a very interesting insight into the DNA, so I recommend reading the whole blog.

    Also, the photo of Patsy and John is one I remember so well: it's from the Larry King show when John was...running for office! (Can you imagine him as an ELECTED official? Don't laugh--he almost made it to the primary!) Look closely at Patsy's face: Tricia had just gotten through on the call-in questions to the Ramseys and smacked them over claims they'd "won" the Wolf lawsuit and asked if the public knew they had not, in fact, donated anything to help children with their book sale profits, as promised.

    You can see the look on Patsy's face, which I will never forget. John said he didn't catch the question--ha ha--but he was smiling and talking while Patsy was stewing, her face turning red. Then she jumped in and gave that BRILLIANT response that, Yes, they had in fact just donated $1000 in scholarship money in Charlevoix at JB's favorite summer camp...

    ...which some ASTUTE Michigan journalist decided to follow up on two weeks later. Not only did that reporter have the Charlevoix camp director on record saying, Nope, no scholarship money from the Ramseys that he knew about. One quick phone call to Patsy from the reporter on the issue had her stuttering and spitting and running a check to said director as fast her little LIES could carry her.:punk:

    And that is why we love Tricia. If looks could kill, our fearless leader would have been garroted this very minute!

    If you have some time, here's the link to the WONDERFUL interview with Prendergast on Boyles' radio show: Prendergast says, "'s really a crime for any reporter to go out and say 'The parents were cleared.'" He talks about Tracey's and Lacey's scandal with Karr, the TouchDNA, etc. To skip opening commercials, etc., go to approx. minute 00:04:55.

    And here is a link to what Stan Garnett had to say in his interview with Boyles about the D.A.'s "opinion" piece and the current status of the Ramsey case: he appears about minute 00:07:00.

    Attached Files:

  3. Elle

    Elle Member

    Excellent post BOESP. I learn so much from all of the younger ones here!
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2013
  4. Elle

    Elle Member

    I can't keep up with these excellent posts this morning KK. Thank you for the time taken!

    So much to remember when it comes to all you're talking about here. Tricia phoning in and talking to the Ramseys! What courage she has! Yes! I see the look on Patsy's face. Good for you posting this to jog our memories. Thank you!
  5. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    No worries, Elle. There won't be a test. Take what you will and thanks for your time. I always appreciate it, you know that. :hug:

    What Patsy Ramsey was really thinking about Tricia's questions:

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 10, 2013
  6. Elle

    Elle Member

    Oh good grief, KK! I've never seen this photo before. I guess they can do anything these days with the equipment available! Oh jeez! Hope they don't come after you for this! (?).
  7. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Ha ha! Elle, it's just a simple, free photo alteration program Moab told me about years ago.

    Patsy can't complain anymore, I don't think. John is much improved, as I see it, so I don't know why he'd get upset. :cheerful:

    I think I'm safe.
  8. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Yes, John does look better in the second photo ...

    but for REAL IMPROVEMENT ... you gotta go BAG or go home!

    Attached Files:

  9. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Done Thinking...

    I just can't go there, Pals...the new revelations from Kohlar's book and the Grand Jury indictment were enough to force me to consider the Burke Did It scenario ~ and I was pretty close to having to accept that as Mystery Solved but not so close to commit as there was a stronger force that kept nagging at me ~ I am very happy to report that I FINALLY had the light bulb moment I needed ~ Dangggg I got dusty as it should have never taken me this long but better late than Never....

    Fleet & Priscilla White.

    No. Nope. Not at all was 9 year old Burke Ramsey the Culprit in the Whites eyes, they have not had to Speak Out because a Child was not Charged!!! Think back or wait for me to have time to revisit their statements ~ nope, not a child and not parents covering up for a child ~ The Whites are Good People & knowing what I Know...a BDI reality would NOT have inflamed their Anger so this Rat will be over here standing form in the Position she's Always Assumed ~

    You're Good for It, Patsy
  10. Elle

    Elle Member

    Yes, RiverRat, this is what I have always thought! It was Patsy!
  11. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    I vote for PATSY DID IT and she is the reason this case will never be prosecuted.

    If Burke was involved, imo, it was something that happened before the rage event that involved Patsy and JonBenet and the ligature was some sort of restraint device originally used in the corporal cleansing.

    I soooo respect otg and his work but I still think JonBenet's head injury is consistent with a low velocity/high pressure event (meaning her head hit something instead of something hitting her head). I don't think she fell down stairs or anything like that but believe someone's hand forcibly pushed JonBenet's head into something and maybe repeatedly did so.

    I think John Ramsey tried to "protect" his wife and maybe his son but I don't think he sexually abused JonBenet even though my opinion on that is a polar opposite to statistical evidence of child sexual abuse.

    Many seem to believe Chief Kolar veiled his opinion as a "Burke Did It" but I'm still on the fence about exactly what Chief Kolar was trying to tell us. I find it totally confusing that he and Steve Thomas came to such opposing opinions and while I see how some believe Burke did it I believe that, based on evidence known to the public, that Patsy Did It is the better explanation.

    Now I'm off to get ready to watch "Dancing With The Stars." Yes, I am probably AADD. It makes life more interesting. :bee:
  12. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    ummmmmmm ~

    I must admit my opinions on this case have evolved a bit over the years, but I am by no means glued to any one theory (except I know it wasn't an intruder).

    The BDI theory would serve to explain everything else the Ramseys did - the cover up, lying about Burke sleeping that morning when he was clearly heard on the 911 tape. I think Burke had some mental issues, or maybe I should say "personality" issues, which were covered up by the Ramseys' lawyers when they requested certain medical records be withheld from LE.

    Yes, Burke was a child, was a child, was a child...but there have been other children who have killed, and Burke displayed some pretty odd behavior, considering his sister had just been murdered. I'm not accusing Burke of anything; I just believe that he never should have been dropped as a potential suspect in JB's murder.
  13. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    It's certainly possible Burke was involved but the pressure needed to make the lineal fracture has me buffaloed. If she were struck with a club or bat with enough force to make that fracture then, imo, the area below the contact point would have been pulverized, especially if it was a relatively sharp-edged golf club. A piece of skull was displaced but the damage to the soft tissue below was relatively shallow and non-penetrating.

    I can see the hand weight found in JonBenet's bedroom as a possible weapon but until it is known which room the attack occurred in there are just too many possibilities.

    Burke could have pushed JonBenet's head against something and caused that kind of damage but why would two parents let two children sleep on the same level in the house without supervision? Why not call 911 if it was a sibling accident?

    By the time Thomas left his position was there really much new information that he would not have seen that Kolar would have seen? I'm just bumfuzzled why Kolar and Thomas came to different conclusions, and Arndt came to yet a third conclusion (my opinion is the anger John Ramsey showed while bringing JonBenet up from the basement was probably toward whoever killed JonBenet).

    Why would John and Patsy have continued keeping this in the public eye if Burke was involved? Arrogance? I suppose they thought they were drilling it in the public mind that an Intruder did it? Regardless, if I was covering for my minor child I'd want things to die down and sink into the sunset but they seemed to thrive on the publicity and public appearances, which they could have declined to do.

    To me, Patsy's epitaph, plus John Ramsey writing his latest book and making the public comment that he didn't often think about Patsy tells me that he is relieved she's gone and he feels no threat. Now which threat would that be: she won't rat on him or he no longer has to worry about her confessing she did it?

    Sorry to rant on and on but it frustrates me to no end that money and power prevents justice from being applied equally.
  14. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Why did John and Patsy let a six-year-old JonBenet get in bed with a nine-year-old Burke when she got lonely at night? Why did JonBenet get in bed with Burke and not her parents? Most children, scared and/or lonely, will try to climb into their parent's beds.

    As to your other question ... many parents let their children sleep "on the same level" in their houses "without supervision."

    Because of the previous sexual molestation Patsy had recently discovered.

    Believe me, I share your frustration!!!

    I have wavered between PDI and BDI, but I KNOW there was no intruder, and Patsy wrote the ransom note! It does make sense to me for Patsy and John to cover for Burke and to try to "save" their image and lifestyle, but I am still open to a PDI scenario as well.

    All I know is the Ramseys got away with what really happened to JonBenet thanks to their wealth and powerful connections in Colorado.
  15. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    I was so worked up I screwed up. I meant to ask why would they let them sleep on the same level if there was abuse going on between them? I don't understand that! And why would JonBenet go to the bed of an abusive brother rather than out her door and up the stairs directly outside her door and on to her parents' bedroom? This is one thing that I see as being in Burke's favor, if she did indeed leave her own room.

    That is just beyond my understanding why anyone let alone a parent would not immediately call 911 for any reason when their child was injured. The failure to do so is reason enough for both parents to be charged, imo. So, do you think John was asleep until after the fact or do you think he was in agreement with Patsy about not calling 911 until the morning of the 26th (if that is actually what happened)? It takes two cruel parents to both agree not to call for help immediately.

    I understand. I tend to think it more likely something that happened between JonBenet and Burke may have triggered Patsy's rage, but I'm willing to admit I'm wrong. Oh I would love to be wrong if they would only take this case to court where it belonged in the first place.

    And someone needs to account for that. Spineless jellyfish. :spit:</snip>
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  16. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    IMHO, Patsy had only found out recently about any sexual contact between Burke and JonBenet, although there had been warning signs before. Apparently, Burke and JonBenet had been caught "playing doctor." Whether they were truly "playing doctor," or this was the adult version of an excuse for why Burke and JonBenet were found naked together, I don't know.

    Patsy was gone a lot for her chemo when Burke and JonBenet were little. John was not demonstrative and emotionally cold, when he WAS home, which wasn't a regular occurance. Nedra, who was their caretaker much of the time, was not a nurturing type person either. Burke and JonBenet may have bonded in a dysfunctional way during the stress of really not having either parent and needing human contact. I'm not saying this is what happened, but it HAS happened in other families.

    I used to think John was asleep during JonBenet's head bash, the staging, and Patsy's writing of the ransom, and he didn't suspect what happened until he found JonBenet's body (during the hour he was gone the morning of the 26th), but now I'm not so sure. If Burke, in a rage, is the one who inflicted JonBenet's head bash, I can see Patsy convincing John they needed to protect Burke. She's already lost one child; she didn't want to lose another.

    Isn't THAT the truth!!! But it will never happen. Our only hope is that somehow in the future, we can get the case files opened, and I don't think there is a chance of that taking place while John is alive. I also believe we will never see the case files while some of his enablers and powerful "fixers" are alive; i.e. people like Hal Haddon, Alex Hunter and Mary Lacy. They all have too much to lose if the truth comes out in their lifetimes.

    My sentiments, exactly!
  17. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    There was something going on with Burke - his fascination with spreading feces on walls and messing in his pants is not normal at his age. Not only is it not normal, but it is a huge warning signal that something could be off with his emotional sexual growth.

    Sibling sexual experimentation isn't all that rare, according to things I have read, but it seems this went beyond the norm. Why would the Ramseys' lawyers request an "island of privacy" concerning Burke's psychiatric records?

    Worse yet, why did Hunter agree with it? Because he was a lightweight and didn't dare to go against those high-dollar attorneys? Or, did he deliberately try to sabotage the BPD's case against the Ramseys?

    It is my belief that both Hunter and especially Lacy should be brought up on charges of obstruction of justice in this case, along with a few others who screwed with the facts of the case and got away with it.

    As far as inflicting the head injury - interesting that some of the experts believe that Burke most certainly could have hit JB in the head with the flashlight, which conveniently bore no fingerprints, anywhere.
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    I was just thinking Boesp that the sneeze etc. could also have come from the children who were playing with JonBenét at the White's party. Sitting on the floors etc. A sneeze can travel! I can see JonBenét's clothing being removed if she was asleep, but not her underclothing.
  19. Elle

    Elle Member

    Yes, WY Burke could have just as easily hit JB on the head with the flashlight. It sure is smaller than a golf club, and he had managed to
    swipe JB with one before! I personally feel he was a neglected little boy
    and his strange behaviour of this was evident. JB was the one who got all the attention!
  20. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    Good point Elle. There are probably a dozen or more scenes that a prosecutor could present in court that would refute the DNA in the underpants and the touch DNA on the long johns. My speculation is whoever created that microscopic fluid in her underwear probably handled the panties too. If so, Touch DNA can easily be transferred from panty to long johns. It is too convenient that Ms. Lacy never mentioned whether the waistband of the panties was tested for Touch DNA.

    Somewhere I read that if the markers for JonBenet's DNA were removed from the combined blood stain/microscopic fluid stain in the panty what remained could theoretically be sorted out as matching markers in two remaining Ramsey family members. I've tried to find mention of this recently and I can not find it.
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