Time span between head blow and strangulation

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by rashomon, Jan 27, 2007.

  1. Elle

    Elle Member

    It's obvious this is one very special young brother you have there, Texan.
    :toast: Here's to Jon!
  2. Elle

    Elle Member

    Hi Cleej! Nice to see you posting again. :) Wasn't this a special story?
  3. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    I'll say!!!

    Glad he wasn't seriously injured when it happend, and glad he is great today!
  4. Little

    Little Member

    Um, sort of off topic (ok ... way off topic) but is he married Texan, because I have a daughter who might be a terrific match for him :)

  5. Texan

    Texan FFJ Senior Member


    he is married but I have a 32 year old son who is also most awesome and single!
    I love playing cupid.
  6. tylin

    tylin Banned

    Thank you for looking this up for us. The fact that there was
    NO scalp trauma still blows my mind. I just can't grasp how she could have suffered the 8in skull fracture without any trauma to the scalp.
  7. Cleej2

    Cleej2 Member

    Hi Elle, good to see you too.

    Just love stories with happy endings
  8. Cleej2

    Cleej2 Member

    I can't grasp this either Tylin. Especially when the skull was actually damaged and cracked as badly as it was. It's as if it was a quick snap that cracked the skull. To me it looks like a putter from a golf club set would fit right into the missing piece of skull. A putter with a curved edge. It also looks as if the putter had a small tail on the bottom. I have seen putters like this.
  9. heymom

    heymom Member

    Maybe her thick hair acted as a cushion, absorbed some of the energy somehow. That's all I can think of. The skull cracked because of the force applied, but maybe her hair helped protect her actual scalp.
  10. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Maybe the reason is that children have softer skulls than adults, and therefore injuries of the type JB suffered don't necessarily produce scalp wounds too. At least that is what a poster with medical knowledge wrote on another forum.
  11. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Sue, where in the autopsy report are those clots mentioned?
  12. tylin

    tylin Banned

    I waver between the weapon being the golf club or the flash light.
    The thought of how hard the weapon must have been swung to cause such a skull fracture gives me the willies. Which leaves me again wondering--- and not understanding, how the scalp cannot be broken.

    Heymom and Rash,
    Good thoughts about why there wasn't obvious damage to the skin. I hadn't thought about her hair acting as a cushion...that's a possibility.
  13. heymom

    heymom Member

    Yeah, I'm of the same mind - divided. On one hand, why was the flashlight wiped cleaner than JonBenet herself? On the other hand, why did John Ramsey want to be sure that Pammy had gotten his golf clubs on her police-sponsored raid? On the third hand, I do believe he could have played a round or two of golf the day after his daughter's dead body was left laying by the Christmas tree while he and his wife left the house.
  14. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    The baseball bat

    In the NE book (page 229, pb), it says a baseball bat was found outside near the butler kitchen door, and that a fiber from the basement carpet was found on this bat.
    Michael Kane mentioned that it was revealed during the grand jury hearing that a baseball bat belonged to Burke: was it the one outside the butler kitchen door? (If memory serves, two bats were found outside).
    If is it true that the butler kitchen door was found open, just a thought - could it be that the Ramseys threw this bat ouside on that night and either forgot to close the door (or deliberately left it open)?
  15. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    There has always been some confusion about that door. It was never open as in "wide open" but rather open as in UNLOCKED. I think JR had told LE that they never locked any of the doors (thinking this was a perfect set-up to have LE believe how easy it was for an intruder to get in). Then I read that one of the R friends who came over that AM mentioned the butler door being open, and he said he "read" the ransom note through that door, as it lay there. Of course, we know the note would never have been there then, it had already been handed to LE.
  16. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    clarification re the doors; baseball bat

    DeeDee, the door through which John Fernie said he could read the ransom note was not the butler kitchen door on the north side, but the door on the south side leading to the hall, to the right of the study. At the end of this hall, there is also the spiral staircase where Patsy allegedy found the ranson note.

    As for the butler kitchen door on the north side (in the PMPT floor plan, this is the door wher one enters the "lower hall" (which is called butler kitchen or butler pantry in other floor plans): it says in the NE book (page 229, pb), that a baseball bat was found outside near that door, and that a fiber from the basement carpet was found on the bat.
    Michael Kane mentioned that it was revealed during the grand jury hearing that a baseball bat belonged to Burke. Was it the one outside the butler kitchen door? (If memory serves, two bats were found outside).
    If is it true that the butler kitchen door was found unlocked, just a thought - could it be that the Ramseys threw this bat ouside on that night and forgot to lock the door (or deliberately left it unlocked)? Did they tell LE that they checked the doors on that night?
  17. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    I've read R quotes stating both ways. That they never locked any doors (which other people also stated) or that the house had been locked up and they found that door open. Interesting, JR "found" the basement window broken/unlocked, too, but didn't think it was important enough to tell the police who were UPSTAIRS investigating the KIDNAPPING of his daughter. This door, locked or unlocked, only became important when that bat was found to contain basement carpet fibers. Then it became a convenient entry point for the "intruder". Yet, the RST still insist the intruder climbed in and OUT a basement window balancing on a suitcase, which they then mysteriously righted, of course, after pulling a chair against the door to the room THROUGH THE CLOSED DOOR.
    All this with an open door leading RIGHT outside in a handy location, not obviously seen from the street.
    But I guess it was "easier" to climb on the suitcase (miracle it didn't tip over), climb UP the wall, move a heavy metal grate (another miracle- the spider web and debris remained intact) and WALK AROUND TO THE OPEN DOOR and drop the bat there.
  18. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    That's classic lying, DeeDee. The truth doesn't change. The Ramsey's stories changed...and changed...and evolved...and popped up months later...years later...and changed as the details didn't fit, to make them fit....

    They're good for it!
  19. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I saw a professional investigator once describe "4 common elements of staging" in crimes. I posted that here somewhere....

    In relation to what you have posted, one of those elements was "how the intruder left", an "escape route", essentially. The perp stages an "exit" for the intruder.

    Suitcase...open window...bat in the yard....

    Think about the Darlie Routier case: screen cut, child's sock found down the street.

    Makes me wonder if the "handle" part of the bat was the weapon of the blugeoning. That's about the same size as the maglight end that fit into the comminuted part of the skull fracture.


    Since it's on this webpage as well, I'll mention the linear fracture info because it brings up this example: caused by impact with a wall:

  20. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Mayer described her head injury as "blunt force trauma". I know there has been speculation by some that she could have fallen and fractured her skull by hitting the floor or that she could have been slammed into the wall or floor. A faucet, maybe... I'd think that Mayer would have known the difference, and I never believed that a piece of her skull would have been punched out by falling on the floor or hitting a wall. I have always thought of either the flashlight, a golf club (BOY, did he want those clubs bad) or the bat (and you are right- the handle would have been a good fit to have made that hole- the rounded edge also not likely to lacerate the skin).
    The flashlight, if not used as the bludgeon, was certainly used to move about the darkened house. A neighbor reported seeing a "strange moving light" (sounds like someone walking around with a flashlight, doesn't it?). And so that could be a motive for wiping it down.
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