What do you see in JBR crime scene photos?

Thank you, tylin. Just happy to help.

 

Thanks, INSIGHT, and thanks too, Elle. I understand the significance of the shirt business now. :thumbsup:

Was the balled-up red shirt wet (either from urine or water), or was it dry? Regardless, did LE have it forensically tested for urine (and blood, etc.)?

I've read that JonBenet's bed sheets were urine-stained, but that they were dry. JonBenet was a bed wetter, so if the sheets were dry, is it possible the urine stains were old stains? I've heard that even laundering doesn't always remove every trace of urine, so when thinking about JonBenet's sheets, I've always wondered exactly what was meant by "stains."

 

Thank you.

 

it looks like label tape (that plastic tape that you use a label maker to emboss letter/numbers on).

 

BluesStrat, I was going to reply to you last night but computer froze and then went dead. I know JAR wasn't a suspect for the killing, but I do wonder if he may have been the molester. I realize there was no penetration, but there are lots of ways to molest. Many molesters do not have intercourse with their victims.

Heymom

 

Nothing Personal

Sorry Punisher, No direct thing about "ALL" lawyers. And of course nothing personal, I love your posts!!! Onc of my Dearest friends of 20 years is a highly known NYC lawyer. She is awesome!!! I should have added Tracey, Lacy....Ect. No Hard feelings, K? :star3d:

 

Heymom, yes JAR could have been a prior molester, but if he was, what he did to her was as 'light' as what happened to her that night--causing no major damage. Since he wasn't there that night it's probably logical to assume the person who molested her the night she died was also the one who performed any prior molestation of similar style.

I know all molesters do not have intercourse with their victims, but this one put a cord around her neck and choked her to death. Obviously they didn't care if they would hurt her, and I think that would also apply to the molestation. That's why I see it as being "child-like".

 

Well, I do not see the molestation and the death as having to be caused by the same person, so we are not on the same script there.

If JAR had been molesting JonBenet, and Patsy and John or one of them had found that out prior to the night of 12/25, then the "accident" happened, and they knew they had to cover up the sexual molestation, it could be the same basic scenario as you see if Burke did it. I don't know if JR would go through the staging to cover up for his older son. I somehow doubt it. I think JR was covering mainly himself. I see him as only interested in JR in the end.

I disagree to your characterization of molestation as "light" or "child-like." Molesters can commit oral acts upon their victims and never leave any marks at all. Abuse is abuse. Any time an adult touches a child in that way it is abuse. If an older child does it, it is abuse. If there is any power differential, it is abuse.

 

Heymom, I'm not discussing the defination of the word "abuse" here. When I say the molestation was "light" or "child-like", I'm refering strictly to the amount of physical damage that was present at the autopsy. There could have been massive bleeding and tearing, but there wasn't.

 

Here's what I see:

Scalp contusion. Not open wound. This is a closed head injury.

Massive crush injury to the skull, yet only 7-8 cc of subdural hemorrage.
Crush injury to the right side of the brain and skull. The contracoup injury on the brain was only about 1/2" dia. The brain would normally bleed a massive amount from this type of injury. The brain injury would also cause a massive increase in ICP from this type of injury with all of the (internalized) bloodletting, trapped within the skull, causing changes to the size of the brain as it became compressed from the trapped fluids (and leading to anoxic brain injury from the displacement of blood from the vessels by swelling). What I am getting at is that the time of the brain injury was very close to the time of death from the asphyxiation.

In reviewing the files it is apparent that JB died very soon after the head injury occurred. It is also apparent from the petechiae of the eyes and generalized regions from the neck up that yes, she did die from the strangulation no matter how ineffectual the "garrote" may have appeared. There was something occluding her airway as the cause of death.

Small bruise on the posterior shoulder. Small injury to the right chin. This is when she fell down for some reason, hitting her chin and posterior shoulder on something as she went down. Probably hit the chin on something (forward and to the right) as she bucked and went down, then rebounded from a forward lean (chin into an object, bounce off of it somewhat, and) into a right side first backwards buckle. Shoulder hit the ground.

The anterior left shoulder has the linear pattern of petechiae. To me this is a slap mark. Did she fall to the right from a left sided shoulder received slap? Did this perhaps occur before the crush injury to the head? It would be likely that it did, as the escalating of events would then be explained.

First a slap on the left anterior shoulder, leaving petechiae (a "slap mark") and bouncing her chin off of something and her right posterior shoulder hitting the floor or some furniture as she flew away as a result of the blow.

Then the head injury, then strangulation to stop the convulsions. Ugly.

 

I disagree with the bold part of the post. But I agree with almost every word of the rest.

Many months ago, I posted about Gene Parker, a polygraph expert, and Diane Hollis, one of John Ramsey's secretaries. Parker's scenario is that Patsy caught HIM molesting JonBenet AGAIN. Patsy told HIM: "I thought I told you not to do this again." Then Patsy attempted to hit HIM with a flashlight, missed, and struck JonBenet instead. Parker alleged to me (and another poster on this forum) that he had learned this information in a pre-polygraph interview with Diane Hollis.

IMO Parker's reliability is questionable. However, Parker's scenario can not be eliminated by any evidence that I am aware of. Of the two males we know were in the house that night, I seriously doubt Patsy would tell John: "I thought I told you not to do that anymore." Diane Hollis passed the polygraph test.

 

Wasn't the head injury at the back of JonBenet's skull? I mean, more toward the back. So if anything were happening, JBR would have had to be face-down on the bed, right? I mean, in order to catch a blow that was meant for someone else.

This, to me, is one of the least likely scenarios, but what the heck do I know???

 

Right side and back.
I agree that it sounds unlikely to me. I can't think of any arrangement of bodies that would result in Jonbenet being hit on the right side back of her head if Patsy was trying to hit John. Also, I don't know if Patsy is right or left handed, but it's hard to think of how a right handed person could hit JB in the right side and back of the head and hit with enough force to do that much damage in a 'target' she was not meaning to hit.

 

There are only a few people that know the detail of JonBenet's death. And I think it is safe to say that nobody spending Sunday afternoon posting on FFJ is one of the few.

A lot of people, in and out of law enforcement, have spent time investigating permutations of this scenario. No one I know can verify or refute.

 

The hole in her skull is oval-shaped and supposedly matches the end of the Maglight flashlight. That indicates to me that the person was standing on the right side of JonBenet when the blow was struck.

I do believe the rounded end of the bat would also make the same shaped whole.

 

Well, Spade, thanks for the veiled insult! You are right, though...NONE OF US knows just what happened on 12/25/96. Enjoy YOUR Sunday afternoon, eh?

 

I NEVER veil my insults. When it happens to you heymom (no threat intended) there will be no doubt in your mind.

 

:runaway: you have to catch me first

:monty: here's me being crunched by Spade

:nervous: maybe I'd better get outta here



:couch: I'm not good at hiding...

 

Okay, you two, break it up!

The wound on her head went from the brow ridge to the back of the head, and was more reminiscent to me in its autopsy description of the side of a maglight. It would be sort of like catching the long, curvy side of the light instead of the end of it.
There was also a small contracoup injury on the left side of the brain.
I still maintain that there was a "slap mark" on her shoulder, though, and that it was probably a part of the initial confrontation that led up to the escalated (uncontrolled) assault on JonBenet.

You guys do not need to leave such marks in verbal form on one another. Virtual petechiae still hurt, albeit that they are computer based and not "real". :fishslap:

 

Eh, it's OK, we weren't goin' for the jugulars or anything. I thought Spade was bein' a butthead and he thought I was dissin' him by saying he would hide a rock in a pillow for a pillow fight. All's swell that ends swell.

Heymom :sponge: