What things are you most sure about?

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Learnin, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I agree with your list 100%, Nickii!

    Hey, learnin, you like to do experiments, and I have a quick one that doesn't involve anything anyone can't do. If you'd like, would you try this and let me know your determination?

    It's about John's story of backing into the basement, on his hands and knees, from that window well:

    Get on your bed, on your hands and knees, on the edge, and try to back off onto the floor that way. Let me know what happens, if you do it. And thanks in advance.
  2. Elle

    Elle Member

    Are you the same Nickii I was in personal touch with a few years ago? If so, hello there! Long time no hear, no see! :) I agree with all you're saying here!
  3. Nickii

    Nickii Member

    Yes, Elle! That was me. Always good to see that you are ok! :) I am still reading here on a regularly basis.
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Learnin, here's part of the story John told about "breaking into the basement window." John actually said he'd done this two or three times...if you can believe that. Looking at the language of how he told this story, I find it very hard to believe, because he uses the "subjunctive" tense several times--IF I had done it, this is what I'd have done; IF I WOULD HAVE DONE IT...etc.

    Anyhow, I can't imagine that he actually did this TWO OR THREE TIMES and still can't really tell with confidence how he did it...just a sketchy outline.

    Add in the way John says he got into the room, and I'm very skeptical, because I can't do it. Maybe it's just me, though, so that's why I wish someone else would try a simulation of sorts, off the side of their bed. Remember, it was about a four foot drop to the floor from the window, as well:


  5. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Does anyone else here remember that Patsy was said to keep a key hidden in a statue on the lawn. She even had a name for the statue (don't recall but it was a French name). It was well known that several people had keys and then there was the hidden key. So why would JR have to go through the window at all?
  6. Elle

    Elle Member

    Yes, DeeDee, I remember reading about this. For sure the neighbours across the street, the Barnhills had a key. I don't recall the statue's French name either, but if I come across it I'll post it. I remember her dog was a bichon frise called Jacques. Patsy loved French names.

  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    Good for you! I'm still posting a little bit, but not as much as I did when I first started. Really nice to see you here again. :)
  8. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks for posting this from Thomas' book, Elle. Crystal clear and working to this day. ARRRRGH!!! :banghead:
  9. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Are you trying to cause me to have a high voice?
  10. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    My, my , my. Thanks for putting me on to this. How many times does John say: "I probably went in this way..." "I would've gone in this way, I think..."

    Gee!!!! You strip off, in the dark of the night, and squeeze yourself through a small opening and you don't know exactly how you did it? The terms, "probably" and "I think", were, no doubt, used in case Smit would have known that you couldn't go in but a certain way. John was protecting himself just in case.

    I have the impression that Smit didn't quite buy John's story but, in the end, he wasn't going to let anything get in the way of that intruder and the fame it would bring him.

    As for getting into the house through that window well. Any person would go in like I saw Smit do in that crockumentary on TV. He slid in sideways which, to me, seems like the only way to approach it.
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Um...no. I only wanted to see if you could do it as John said he did it. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me: I kept putting my foot/leg out behind me "into the room" and trying to figure out how I was going to get the other one out without landing on my belly first.

    Here are some photos of Smit going through "his way." Notice how the large heating duct was an obstruction, as well, blocking the window from fully opening.

    Attached Files:

  12. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I truly think John was making it up as he went. I think someone broke into that window before, but it doesn't appear John had a clue how to go about it. Maybe it was John Andrew, who got locked out one night or something. Or someone else who was family?
  13. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Just joking. My bed is not quite high enough for me to get a real feel. I remember watching the video of Smit squeezing through the well and window. He came down sideways which seems, to me, the way to go about it...about the only way. Actually, it was this documentary that got my interest up in the case.

    If John backed in, how did he manage to kick the window in and reach in to turn the latch/lock which he said he did. Wouldn't you have to ease yourself down sideways, ala Smit, and reach the latch that way?
  14. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    I agree. There's no reason to use "probably", "I think" unless you didn't actually do it and you're afraid the questioner might try to do as you say and catch you in a lie...then you can always say: "Well, like I said, I think I did it that way....but it might have been more like this..." It's so evident what these jokers were up to.

    I'm interested in why you think it was broken before. Could it have been broken that night as part of the staging? I've always thought John's dismissal of the broken window's importance (when FW brought it to his attention) was a red flag. After all, some sob kidnapped your daughter, there's a broken window in the basement, you would think an innocent father would run up stairs and get Arndt to come down and look. Even if you had broken the window, you would still believe (since you knew you had locked the house), that you had given the perp a way into the house. I think you'd ask Arndt: "Did anyone dust the window? Does it look like someone came in here?" Not John. Once White mentions the window, it's off to the wine cellar which would be the last place I would look for something "out of place".
  15. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Here's the thing: you don't have to have a high bed. Just imagine that your unless you're 10 feet tall, you can't put your foot on the ground from six feet up--4 from window sill to floor, plus two from knee to hip joint. Okay, maybe only 9 ft. tall.

    So when you put your foot out, you have nothing to put it on in that window, if you're backing in, coming in forward...look at Smit and the other guy in the jeans. They had to slid quite a ways down.

    So if you're on your bed, on your knees, how do you go from your knees to the floor if you can't put your foot on the floor to support you while you lift your other leg and upper body off the bed? That's what I can't figure out. Is it just me? That's why I asked you to try it. I can't do it.without lying on my stomach at some point.

    Now add in the narrow window well. John's upper body would have been...where? His face into that brick wall?

    See if these photos help you see my problem.

    This guy is doing an "exit" demo, so imagine it in reverse:

    Attached Files:

  16. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Learnin, some more window experiments (performed by Team Ramsey) to illustrate the point of the narrowness of the window well. I don't understand why Lou Smit or LE didn't do a trial run in the manner JOHN RAMSEY said he entered the window that night.



    Attached Files:

  17. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Points well taken, kk. Precisely why I think you would enter the window well sideways like Smit did. The last way you would come down in such a maze, IMO, is backwards. Again, when I read that encounter you posted, between Lou and John, I get the impression Smit knew John was telling a big one. Why else would he be grilling John on just how he got into that window? Determining, how John came in that window, would only be important if one was trying to determine if John was lying. Is it possible that, in his heart of hearts, Smit knew something was rotten but just didn't have the heart to admit it but let his true feelings slip out before passing on to his Maker? Is this why, shortly after his death, we have a stirring in this investigation?
  18. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Thank you, thank you, for providing those pics. That's even more narrow than I realized. No way, John went down there backwards. And why would you even attempt to break into your house through such a cramped maze? As I wrote earlier, was John trying to hide from someone if he did go through there?

    When I saw that Lou Smit demonstration, I got in on the part where he was at the window trying to easy his legs through....
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